No Smoking Policy Help...

[Firecrackers Not Included]

Hello peoples...
I am wondering if there may be any possible ideas/advice on my situation:

You may disapprove of my lifestyle and I understand, it is becoming a very disapproving lifestyle here in Minnesota and I feel the crushing disdain more every year...

My wife and I smoke cigarettes. I enjoy smoking. However, I do not enjoy living in smoke. I do not smoke in my home, I do not smoke in my car, and I don't even smoke at work. Just at home, outside. I do not want my items to smell like smoke, or my habitat. Trying and explain that to someone who isn't a smoker is SO difficult (or at least I feel like it is) when wanting to rent their home.

We just signed a lease for a townhome through a rental realtor a few days ago. We move in at the beginning of May. It was coming down to the wire and we needed a place to go before our lease was up here. Everything about this new place is awesome. Except the No Smoking Policy. We didn't say anything about our desires to smoke outside. The couple who owns the townhome are so pleasant and nice (we didn't meet until lease signing at a local coffee shop). The lease we signed states that smoking inside the dwelling is considered a material breach of this lease (which we have no issue with) but also that smoking is not permitted on the premises unless otherwise agreed to by the parties in writing (this did not happen). It also confusingly states that smoking shall occur in designated areas only and that any butts or ash should be cleaned up immediately or could result in $200 fine by landlord. Those things I have no issue with because we are clean with our "habit".

I am kind of a worry wart but how do I do this? If I ask the owners about this now, I feel like I risk being told NO and for the next 24 months watched like a hawk. I feel like maybe if we just go about our business while maybe talking to the neighbors about it and if they're ok with us there is a chance of it slipping through the cracks? I read the Home Owners Association rules and it doesn't say anything other than disrupting comfort for other people (a gray rule for any unique situation).

I am grateful the owners accepted us to rent as the FIRST applicants for the property. I just don't want to mess up our potential decent relationship. They live just a few short miles away. I don't really know how personal they will want to be in our business relationship. It may sound like a minor life worry, but is actually the most stressful part of my move this time! What do you guys think?

[KhirasHY]

It's a potential Catch 22, but if you like these landlords, it is usually best to be honest with them about your intent - if you're smoking out in the back yard exclusively, and keeping the area clean, then it may not be as much of an issue. If, however, you smoke without telling them and get caught, you have the potential for them to get more upset that you didn't say anything...and since you'd been violating that part of the lease (since you had nothing in writing about it), they could terminate the lease. That is, naturally, a worst case scenario.

You could try the "passive approval" thing as well, perhaps by using the "may we use the back yard area as a smoking spot for people we know who use cigarettes, as long as we make sure it stays cleaned?" That does take SOME of the pressure off of you. And technically...you are people you know So it's not actually false...

[csquared]

You said it was a townhome, implying attached housing and possibly a management company and/or association.

I am guessing that the no outdoor smoking is possibly part of the association rules. If you don't have a copy of the association rules, you should get them. It might clarify a few things.

[crazylegs]

MOD NOTE FOR THIS THREAD

The OP is asking for advice specifically relating to this particular situation. If any member chooses to lecture or berate on smoking they will risk disciplinary action.

/MOD NOTE

[Greenday]

Either you don't ask and then you aren't allowed to smoke.
Or you do ask and they potentially say no and you aren't allowed to smoke. But they COULD say yes.

Only one of those options can work out for you. I'd go with the latter.

[Kheldarson]

Man up and ask.

"Hey, I meant to bring this up during signing but there wasn't a good time to. Is it OK if we smoke outside on the back porch?"

It's their property; they need to know these things to best take care of their property.

[Sapphire Silk]

Usually, I go by the "better to to beg forgiveness than ask permission" rule of thumb. But in this case, I think you're taking a risk. You should talk to the landlord. Normally, I would have suggested talking about it earlier in case the landlord said no and you wanted the option of going somewhere else. Now, it might be better to let sleeping dogs lie and ask about it after you move in. Ask where the designated smoking area is, nothing more.

If she says she doesn't want any smoking on the property at all, would you consider an e-cigarette? Since all they let out is vapor, it won't leave a smell and she'll never know you smoke.

[EricKei]

"Hey, I meant to bring this up during signing but there wasn't a good time to. Is it OK if we smoke outside on the back porch?"

Also consider adding "...I am aware of the rules in our lease agreement regarding cleaning up any smoking areas, and that we are not to smoke inside under any circumstances. We will make sure to comply with those." Also, ask where the smoking-allowed areas are.

I am with the "ask them" view on this one -- Either they say yes or no...and if you smoke there without asking and the answer would have been "no" anyway, you risk eviction.

[Jester]

I am a firm subscriber to the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" line of thought, EXCEPT when it comes to serious things like, say, leases. In such cases, it is definitely better to ask permission. Considering the fact that part of the lease talks about "specified areas" for smoking, it kinda sounds like they took outside smokers into account, or at least the idea of their tenants having smoking friends over.

A lease is a very adult thing. So I'm gonna risk sounding condescending (which I don't mean to) and so to be an adult and talk to the landlords in an adult fashion. "We smoke. We only ever smoke outside. We love your place and want to rent it. Can we specify ahead of time where the outside smoking areas are so that we're all on the same page?"

[BookstoreEscapee]

smoking is not permitted on the premises unless otherwise agreed...It also confusingly states that smoking shall occur in designated areas only

I would just ask them to clarify (or if complex has an on-site association office, you could ask there). It sounds like there are designated areas in the complex, so just ask where they are. If they ask questions, just admit that you smoke but that you want to make sure you're only doing where it's allowed. If they were especially concerned about whether their tenants smoke, they would have asked specifically; I don't think you're obligated to bring it up in the process of signing the contract, if they didn't even think to ask. It should be enough that you agreed to the rules on not smoking inside the unit.

[Kittish]

I'm with what seems to be the majority on this one, see about getting it in writing that it's ok for you to smoke outside, where the designated smoking area is, and that you understand that policing your butts and other detritus is policy and that you will comply. I think Jester's phrasing is just about perfect for opening that dialogue.

[prjkt]

You might also want to be careful of wind-direction and open windows with your neighbours... often I'll wake up choking due to my neighbour two townhouses down smoking in his backyard... but it depends on the direction of the wind at the time

[Firecrackers Not Included]

Wow, thanks guys! Way more response than I thought...

And so multi-sided! Just how I feared!....

The HOA says nothing specifically about smoking. Just the possible bother to neighbors (the gray rule). I feel like I should talk to the neighbor (the closest one to be affected) because if they don't have any complaints to make to the HOA, the owners shouldn't have anything to be upset about through complaints/fines. I'll bring the neighbors cookies/whatever. If anything comes up afterward with the owners, do you guys think a dollar amount will change minds for fogiveness?... "I'm sorry you feel that way, here's $500 to look the other way?" (still without smoking inside) (Or.. what amount talks?)

If I have to, I am a decent actor, I could pull off the "I just enjoy a few cigarettes after work outside, I don't even smoke in my car...Is that ok?"(which is mostly-truth) But the topic is so automatically tuned out to non-smokers, I guess that's where I feel at a loss...

KhirasHY, I like the way you think and is a way that I see myself going if I decide to go the "sneaky route". I'm just not certain if I want to take that direction yet! Because really, I need to decide the direction first, and go all the way with it.

You guys are awesome, thank you.

[Seshat]

Ohhhh, I'd be careful about the dollar-amount to look the other way. It depends on what their reasoning is.

If they've ever had the sort of tenant whose smoking is so severe that the house has had to be gutted, or even 'just' recarpeted and all the soft furnishings replaced, then it's possible that nothing (or very little) will work.
But if they are just wary because of horror stories from other landlords, then simply inviting them to visit, and personally see how well you're keeping their property, will settle them down.
And in the latter case, 'an attempt at bribery' (which might be how they see it) could easily have them wondering what you're trying to hide.

So ... I dunno. I'd be iffy about that solution.

[tedmchugh]

You should try e-cigs. They come in so many flavors and no one will no the difference.