Possibly averted a fraudster

[Ghel]

I'm not sure what sort of illegal things this woman was up to, but I wasn't having any part of it.

A woman came into the bank wanting a couple of documents notarized. She went to the head teller first, and she wasn't sure about the documents, so she brought her to me. They were very limited power of attorney documents giving someone else (she said her dad) permission to sell a car and a boat for her. She said the car and boat were titled in another state (which doesn't even share a border with us) and she needed her dad to sell them for her and transfer the titles to the new owner.

The documents seemed ok to me, so I told her to go ahead and sign the first document. That's when I picked up her driver's license from where she'd set it on my desk. I immediately noticed that the picture was scored (cut) all the way around it. I asked her if she knew this, and she claimed that it had bubbled up when it went through the laundry, so she'd cut around the picture to flatten it out. That's when I got really suspicious. I've never seen that happen with one of our driver's licences. I've never seen them separate. I've never even seen a dogeared corner on one of them. She made an almost off-hand comment about how the license was expiring next month, so she was just going to wait to renew it and get her address updated then. Which seems backwards. If you move, you're supposed to update your license right away. And if it bubbled up in the wash, that's one more reason to renew it sooner.

But the clincher was when she shoved the paper she'd signed at me. I looked at her signature, then the signature on the license. They were not anything like each other. Her signature was scribbly and slanty, where the one on the license was careful and blocky. I pointed that out and said I couldn't notarize the document for her, unless she had a different photo ID with her signature. She didn't. Of course she got mad. Asked what she was supposed to do now. I didn't have an answer, but really it's none of my concern.

I'm not sure what her scheme was. Maybe trying to sell a car and a boat that didn't belong to her? I don't know how she expected anyone to accept that driver's license as valid. Even if the license had bubbled up, there still wouldn't be a reason to cut along all four edges of the picture to get the air and/or water out of it. Her excuse doesn't make any sense.

[wolfie]

My guess is that the license was stolen from the actual owner of the car and boat, and that the scoring was because she had removed the original picture and substituted her own. Going for a power of attorney rather than selling directly would have been to add one more "cutout" to the chain that would need to be traced - someone (probably a dupe) who would have unaltered documents the DMV could check all they liked.

[Cia]

There are States that still use real photos on their drivers licenses? My pic is digitally printed on the plastic so no matter how many times one washes it there will be no bubbling.

[Victory Sabre]

There are States that still use real photos on their drivers licenses? My pic is digitally printed on the plastic so no matter how many times one washes it there will be no bubbling.

Looking at my MN dl, the photo looks printed on the license. I can't see how it would bubble just around there - it would bubble throughout.

Yeah, she's a scammer. You might want to contact the local police on that one Ghel. There's something very fishy going on with her.

[sirwired]

Too bad you probably didn't make copies of the documents; it'd probably be nice to give a head's up to the real owner, because I'd say there is a 0% chance this woman is her.

I expect she's just going to take her poorly-forged ID and go to a bunch of different notaries until she finds one that doesn't care.

[wolfie]

What's scary is that if she'd put the same amount of effort into a different forgery that she did into altering her license, she'd probably have got away with it (but the matter would not have crossed Ghel's desk).

[Ghel]

I don't think I could have come up with a pretext to make copies of the license or documents. I didn't have the presence of mind to make a note of the name she gave, and I don't remember it now. I don't think I have enough information to take it to the police.

[Sliceanddice]

She made an almost off-hand comment about how the license was expiring next month, so she was just going to wait to renew it and get her address updated then. Which seems backwards. If you move, you're supposed to update your license right away. And if it bubbled up in the wash, that's one more reason to renew it sooner.

Well... actually what you have to do is update your address with the mvd of dmv or what ever you have, you only update your license on a state by state bases if needed.

Example: I've had my current license since 2009. It has some ware around the edges where some of the protective coating has curled a bit. In the time since I got it I've legally movied 5 times, updated my address with the mvd each time. Arizona does not require you to replace the card if you change your address, however you do have to change every 12 years, when your picture must be updated. Since I've never wanted to shell out the $15 for a new one I don't worry about it. And no notary has ever worried even when I told them the address wasn't up to date.

Now I don't know about your state but not getting a new license isn't weird here.

[Mental_Mouse]

Seeing the blatantly-altered license, I like to think I would have slipped into the next room on a pretext, and called bank security and/or the police on the spot.

[notalwaysright]

Arizona does not require you to replace the card if you change your address, however you do have to change every 12 years, when your picture must be updated.

I looked it up, and that is the longest a drivers license lasts out of all the states. Only a couple states are close, at 10 years. (unless I missed one) In this state it's transitioning from five years to six. And yup, even with only five years I think I moved three times and just updated my address with the DOL, and kept the same license. The instructions say to write the updated address on the back of the license, which seems sketchy, but hey that's what it says to do. But then I had to do it again... And again...

[Chromatix]

I thought a notary public was supposed to take and keep a copy of the relevant ID *anyway*. That would have been a really good pretext to take a copy of a bad one.

[Sliceanddice]

I looked it up, and that is the longest a drivers license lasts out of all the states.

And it's not even renewing it then, it's updating it. Technically baring suspension of your license your cleared to drive until your 65th birthday. Heck last time I got mine replaced I updated my photo with me in glasses but the mvd refused to update my license to say I needed them to drive because I wasn't doing an official update just a replacement with a new picture since it had been more than 6 years since I had my last one, so no eye exam was needed.

[Slave to the Phone]

Back when my Arizona driver's license was issued, it was laminated and the picture was probably attached during the laminating process. That license was owned by an abuser. I was horrible to it. It went through the washer and dryer on a regular basis. It came in handy when I needed to scrape ice off the windshield. It was good for breaking into our rather unsecure sliding door. It had many other probably unapproved uses.

After 20 years of abuse, the only sign of damage was some yellowing of the plastic. It didn't bubble over the glued on photo. It didn't show any signs of separating anywhere.

(As an aside, the only reason I replaced it was because I couldn't find my Social Security card when I started my current job, so went to the SS office to have a new one issued. That was when I learned that my perfectly valid Driver's License was expired in their eyes. I confess that I did protest because I had checked the website and nothing was said about the age of the ID, only that it was not expired. The clerk apologized and told me that Arizona was different.

Long story of bureaucratic folderol and my laziness ensues that has nothing to do with Ghel's issue is happening now. I'm pretty sure I've told this story before, so move along unless you want to point and make fun.

Whatever. I went to the DMV and paid for a new license. Not remembering that when we moved to Arizona, I was using myname-hisname, but when I had to update my name with SS, I had gotten tired of writing that and was only using hisname. So, I went back to the SS office and was told that they wouldn't issue a new SS card because the names didn't match.

So, back to the DMV to change the name on my license, but despite having government ID, voter registration card, credit cards and library card to show the name I was using now, it wasn't enough. They needed my marriage license. My SS card would do, however.

I went home and drank heavily, then dug out everything I had and went back to the DMVnext day.

I guess the DMV clerks felt sorry for me because while I don't think I had what they really needed, I finally got a license with the correct name.

That night, I showed my sweetie my new license and he suddenly snapped his fingers, went to the file cabinet and found my missing SS card.

That's when I killed him.)

[Sparklyturtle]

Turtleguy's Virginia driver's license was valid the whole time he was in the military (20 years) but it never occurred to him that once he'd retired he'd need to get a valid license until we moved to Oregon right after his retirement, and he had to take a driver's test because his license was expired. At least he acknowledged that it was his own fault and was still his usually polite self. I didn't have to take a driver's test because my California license was still valid - I did have to apply for a replacement pink slip on my car from California because I'd packed it, and I needed it to re-register my car in Oregon. Then, because I did that, California started nagging me about my incomplete registration, until I wrote them a polite but tersely-worded letter that I had moved to Oregon and my car was now registered in Oregon so kindly leave me alone. I must have gotten the point across, because they did.

[Cia]

I thought a notary public was supposed to take and keep a copy of the relevant ID *anyway*. That would have been a really good pretext to take a copy of a bad one.

In South Dakota the notaries are not required to make/keep a copy of the relevant ID after examining it. You are allowed to ask the person to sign your record book.