public domain - long

[Darkwish]

For those of you that don't know, I work at eBay.

I work in the department that handles copyrights, trademarks, counterfeits, illegal copies, banned and/or illegal items, etc. and after some of the idiot sellers I've had to deal with lately, I figured it was a good time to start sharing some stories from the eBay trenches.

Yes, I know about all the common eBay complaints from both buyers and sellers, so please don't turn this thread into an eBay rant. I get enough of it at work.

As the title of this post indicates, this has to do with people claiming public domain on stuff. For those who aren't aware of what public domain is - it is any media that the copyrights have expired on, produced/released by the government, or (in very rare cases) the copyright owner has released into the public domain for others to do with however they please. Now, on to the stupid sellers!

Seller #1
I actually had this one today! This guy was claiming that Superman was public domain and selling various Superman stuff that he had found and compiled himself. Well, the copyright owner had his stuff removed a few months ago. Fast forward to today - he's claiming that since they never sued him, he was right and Superman was indeed public domain. And of course, had his stuff removed again.

Superman is world famous and I'm pretty sure they have made sure to renew any copyrights on it... idiot...

Seller #2
Wrote in complaining that we wrongfully removed his listing for video games. He goes on to claim that his lawyer researched copyrights on video games and that they expire after 25 years so all the copied games he was selling were in the public domain (even though most were only about 15 or so years old). And if we didn't believe him, we should contact Namco (a company with a lot of famous games - like PacMan).

I enjoyed calling him out on his lie.
A summary of my response: Copyrights last for 70+ years (and included a link to the government website stating that) and that since video games haven't been around that long, it wasn't possible for them to be public domain and that I was sure that Namco and the other companies would be more than happy to explain their copyrights to him and I would be more than willing to contact them on his behalf.

Funny thing - we haven't heard back from him or his lawyer about it.

Seller #3
We get these idiots about once a week. Their claim is that if it's on the radio/TV/Internet, it MUST be public domain!!! How DARE we remove their listings that they taped/downloaded and burned to CD/DVD themselves?!?!?!?

OR

They claim that because the studios haven't released a show on DVD yet, that it must be public domain. This happens most often with TV shows from the 80's and early 90's. Yup, because the studio hasn't gotten around to putting that crappy show onto DVD in favor of releasing more popular and new shows first, that makes it public domain!

It's always fun to go in and suspend these idiots because you know that they relisted it right after they sent the email.

Ok, I've been on enough of a rant for one evening...

[Hon'ya-chan]

Yes, I know about all the common eBay complaints from both buyers and sellers, so please don't turn this thread into an eBay rant.

So howabout telling us how we can report such dumbass sellers? eBay used to have this very easy link where you report items right on the auction page, now you can't even find the relevant page anymore to tell someone "hey, this guy is selling counterfeit coins!!"

[Binky]

oh dear dog you poor poor thing!

You must get the cream of the crop!

Oh and I too wouldn't mind knowing how to report someone you see trying to sell something fake. Wouldn't mind finding out how to report those sellers who try to rip you off through the postage.

I really feel for you I do! Buyers AND sellers must give you SO much crap!

[Darkwish]

If you just want to report the one auction, there should be a link at the bottom called "Report this listing" or something similar. Follow the instructions and fill it out to the point where it actually sends the email out. (Most people miss that last step thinking they're done because the wording sucks.)

I don't remember the link off the top of my head to report sellers or other issues, but it shouldn't be too hard to find (one webform for most things w/drop down lists). You just need to try to select the right reason on the webform to make sure that it's sent to the right department (or it'll get routed around a lot).

I know that the current webforms and links suck, but they (management) have promised that they're redesigning things to make it easier to get a hold of customer service and report things to us. Knowing them, I just hope they don't screw things up too badly.

If you're responding to an email that a rep sent you, reply back to that email. As long as you don't change the subject line, it should get routed directly back to the right queue.

I hope this helps.

[Darkwish]

oh dear dog you poor poor thing!

You must get the cream of the crop!

Oh and I too wouldn't mind knowing how to report someone you see trying to sell something fake. Wouldn't mind finding out how to report those sellers who try to rip you off through the postage.

I really feel for you I do! Buyers AND sellers must give you SO much crap!

Trust me, I have MANY more to post. By the end of the day, most of my coworkers (including myself) are suffering from what I have termed "Stupidity Overload". I'm trying to get a petition going to get us hazzard pay for being exposed to toxic amounts of stupidity on a daily basis.

And I double checked - there's a "Report this item" link at the very bottom of each auction. It's in the middle of a few other links, but it's there. I can't remember if the form will let you type in a message or not (I think it will), but if it does, make sure to say why it's being reported (specifics if possible). It can help us if it's not obvious in the listing.

[Binky]

wonderful! YAY...sorry I've been stung by those sellers...I'm so very very careful now!

THANK YOU!

also, I think you should get something for the stupidity overload! hrm....maybe a complimentary bottle of vodka with some cookies at the end of every week.....or day...LOL depends on how nice they are to you

[alogram]

Wouldn't mind finding out how to report those sellers who try to rip you off through the postage.

Sorry, but I think that if you don't agree to the postage the seller lists, don't bid. And if the postage isn't listed, ask before bidding.

Am I weird?

[Hyndis]

Slight derail...

I'm curious about the legal status of abandonware, software made by companies that either no longer exist or don't wish to expend any effort to defend their copyright for a particular piece of software. Due to the speed at which the computer industry has advanced, things become absurdly obsolete in only a decade or so, whereas, say, music or movies don't become nearly worthless and useless as time progresses.

[Binky]

Sorry, but I think that if you don't agree to the postage the seller lists, don't bid. And if the postage isn't listed, ask before bidding.

No no, what I mean is there are sellers that sell something tiny, like say a pen usb, for 0.05c (yes I've seen this) then say postage is $30.

I see this and don't bid, if I don't see cost of postage I ask. I can understand why postage can cost a lot in some cases due to weight of the product, or size.

But yeah, what I'm talking about is sellers who try and get money through over charging with postage.

[otakuneko]

Well, there's a reason sellers inflate postage. It's an attempt to get around some ebay fees.

Abandonware is merely copyrighted material that the rights holder is highly unlikely to bother enforcing. Basically, the owner doesn't care anymore (or is assumed not to). Often it's unclear who owns the rights anyway, as the publisher may be defunct.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Sorry, but I think that if you don't agree to the postage the seller lists, don't bid. And if the postage isn't listed, ask before bidding.

Am I weird?

Well that would make sense, so....

You can also report listings that charge excessive shipping and handling; I think this is mainly so that ebay gets their fair cut of the fees from that listing, which are based on the starting bid for the item and the final selling price (not including postage), plus any special options the seller may wish to use.

But reporting has be done before you bid or without bidding. If you bid, it's assumed you agreed to the shipping charges as listed or not, and ebay won't take any action.

[Darkwish]

Ok, I'll try to tackle the questions in one quick post.

Abandonware is illegal, but it usually isn't enforced, either because it's not worth the hassle, the company doesn't care about it anymore or the company is no longer around. Be careful with it, some companies DO patrol abandonware sites! Also, a basic rule of thumb - only PC games are considered abandonware, the console games tend to keep being released in collections or sequels made so they aren't abandonware.

For eBay policies, it is not allowed since it is still copyrighted. (If you have the original copy and are selling that, it's fine.)

As for the excessive postage/shipping fees you mentioned - report them, regardless of bids. It falls under eBay's Fee Circumvention policy and not only does eBay not like getting their fees, it pisses off the legitimate sellers that are following the rules. I don't know the exact guidelines for removing them, but if it's obvious, then it'll be ended. They don't care about who has bid on it or who reports it, if it's in violation of policy, they'll end it.

I'm actually working on creating a website to help answer common copyright/trademark questions as well as eBay questions in an easy to understand format (unlike some of the responses that eBay sends out). I'll post a link to it once it's farther along.

And I really wish they'd give us vodka and cookies. I keep hearing rumors that eBay Germany has BEER in their break room!!!

[DevilBoy]

For eBay policies, it is not allowed since it is still copyrighted. (If you have the original copy and are selling that, it's fine.

Then what about all of those folks who sell computers that come "pre-loaded" with tons of expensive software at an extreme discount... yet magically don't seem to include any of the installation discs?

And if you are offered any discs, they are CD-R versions?

How exactly does one report that and get those listings removed?

[Darkwish]

Then what about all of those folks who sell computers that come "pre-loaded" with tons of expensive software at an extreme discount... yet magically don't seem to include any of the installation discs?

And if you are offered any discs, they are CD-R versions?

How exactly does one report that and get those listings removed?

Except for the operating system and some known free programs (like OpenOffice), they are required to provide the original install disks for all software loaded on the system, CD-Rs don't cut it. There is an exception for the factory pre-installed stuff (like demo anti-virus, and all the trial crap that tends to come preloaded on a new system).

Report them through the "Report this item" link at the very bottom of the page. I personally enjoy removing these.

One thing I have noticed - Apple/Mac users are far more likely to load up the hard drive with copied software than Windows or Linux users.

[PepperElf]

... i dunno about that. i can't say i've never had any programs from friends, but at the moment... i'd say.. o wow, at the moment everything on my mac is legal. a lot of it is freeware, but hey that's still legal

back when i had a PC tho... well that's a different story.


What really annoyed me was..... Watching people list items as "rare" and charging 2-3X their worth. Perfect example... back after the 3rd harry potter movie came out they made little action figurines of the characters. At the toy stores they were marked at about 5 bucks tops. On ebay they were listed as "rare" and started at $15. I don't remember if there was a report button back then but I did ask about the "rarity" since I could find them in the local store... and was told (by the seller of course) that I had no life since I was commenting on an ebay auction.