I Didn't Open It; I Just Peeked Inside

[Dips]

Eugene and Mark got to deal with this joy.

We sell the very specialized software we manufacture with a 90-day gaurantee. If you don't like it, demonstrate you've removed it from your computers and you get a refund.

We also resell another maintstream program, a math editor, which is made by another company. We'll accept returns on it up to 60 days, as long as the box hasn't been opened. If it's opened we can't resell it and the manufacturer won't re-inburse us for it.

We sold a copy of the math editor to a school in November 2007. A lady from the school called today wanting to return the math editor. To save the customer time and return shipping costs, Eugene asked her if it had been opened.

She said "no."

Fair enough, but then she asked why it was important.

[Uh-oh.]

Eugene told her that if she sent it back and it had been opened that we couldn't issue a refund.

At that point she felt the need to explain that it hadn't been opened, she had merely broken the seal and peeked inside the box.

[Oh, dear.]

When Eugene told her that we wouldn't be able to refund it because the seal was broken, she got pretty nasty. No amount of explaining and re-explaining that we couldn't re-sell something with a broken seal and had no intention of eating the cost got her to give up.

She finally demanded a supervisor. We are a small business and Eugene really doesn't have a supervisor besides the owner. The owner doesn't deal with this kind of nonsense. We might bounce things off him or ask his advice, but he trusts us to do our jobs and use our judgement.

Nevertheless, Eugene was getting rattled and was happy for an excuse to get rid of her. So he asked Mark if he would like to take it and Mark volunteered.

She must have thought Eugene hadn't tipped Mark off, because she started out sweet as pie.

Mark started off sweet too. He said that Eugene had filled him in and he just wanted to confirm that she was trying to return opened software she purchased in November. Was that correct?

She blargled a bit and brought up the opened vs. peeked inside question. Mark listened without agreeing and then asked her if there were any questions about our return policy that Eugene hadn't answered sufficiently?

She blargled a bit more and then brought out the threat. She works for a HUGE school system with a HUGE budget. They've given us SO MUCH business and hate to end the relationship.*

Mark was clever enough to turn that threat around. He pointed out that, since the product is a mainstream math editor, and the school system is HUGE, then finding a math teacher in the system who would be able to use the program wouldn't be very hard.

At least he would have pointed it out if she hadn't started yelling at him. He told her that her attitude wasn't going to help and she hung up on him.

[Spiffy McMoron]

Mark was clever enough to turn that threat around. He pointed out that, since the product is a mainstream math editor, and the school system is HUGE, then finding a math teacher in the system who would be able to use the program wouldn't be very hard.

At least he would have pointed it out if she hadn't started yelling at him. He told her that her attitude wasn't going to help and she hung up on him.

Dips, I love your stories. I really do. I'm just sorry that you have to experience them for my benefit.

Points to Mark for coming up with a great comeback. Pity he won't get to use it, though.

[Dips]

This is too much. Apparently someobody has been repeat calling while I've been at lunch, getting Eugene, and hanging up.

We don't have caller ID, but we have our suspicions.

Then Eugene came upstairs and told me he had a fax for the owner. One of my job titles is "Assistant to the President."

So I took it in that capacity.

It's a three page handwritten fax from the school lady.

Among the highlights:

"Once the product was received, [the teacher] determined it would not be compatible with her existing computer capabilities."

That's bull. The other product they bought at that time his MORE system requirements than the math editor and they are running *it* just fine. And she doesn't mention why they needed to open to box to read the system requirements. Actually she doesn't mention opening the box at all in the entire fax.

"After our schools' holiday breaks, I attempted to return the product. Inquiries were sent, and I understand not received, via email."

So she admits buying something in early November and not even trying to contact us until "after the holidays." That would put her in the first week of January at the soonest. When she doesn't get a reply to the stray email, what does she do?

"I also phoned [company] to obtain information on how the return this product and obtain an RMA#."

Ah. So she followed up with a call. That call was today: A MONTH after the alleged email was sent and THREE MONTHS after the purchase. And guess, what? Eugene and Mark told her she wouldn't be getting an RMA and gave her the valid reason, we can't resell opened software.

"The box is in perfect condition for resale."

I'm sorry, lady. That isn't your call. If the seal is broken, we can't in good conscience resell it. If you feel so strongly that it is sellable, go ahead and sell it yourself. Try eBay.

"The invoice doesn't mention a time limit on returns, only that an RMA is needed."

Yeah. She's right about that. So what? She called for an RMA. We refused and gave her a valid reason. If she thinks she's found a legal loophole that will force us to issue a refund, she's welcom to go ahead and pursue it. She's actually going to have to follow through, though. If we lose a lawsuit or the attorney general contacts us and tells us to issue the refund, we will. Otherwise, we won't.

"We hope to continue our purchasing relationship with [company] in the future..."

There you go. I knew that one was coming. So I took a few moments to look up the district's purchasing history.

We do have a long history with them. The spent $1800 to buy our product. In 1996.

Since 1996, they've spent a grand total of $450. Once. In November 2007. Mind you, $150 of that sale is the math editor they are trying to return.

Our own cost for the math editor is $120, which we would eat if we allow the return.

So we are choosing between the *certain* loss of $120 right now and the *possible* loss of another sale in ten or so years (based on their current sales pattern).

[marasbaras]

I'd get BS like that when I ran a software company. "But, I'm a good customer!" ... from someone who bought something ONCE five years previous.

[earl colby pottinger]

Same here

While it was repairs rather than software. I got the same claims about being a good customer only to find our records show only two, one even zero sales to said customer in the last five years.

Additionally, who should care how much in sales to a problem customer you will lose if past experience shows you will spend more on support than the profit margin of that sale.

[bainsidhe]

Yeesh. We get the same bit from a few of our customers. The've spent a grand total of $500.00 in the entire last 5 years, but they want to return product worth over $1000.00. Mostly stuff older than 5 years, assuming that as the manufacturer we should take back whatever product they ask us to with full credit. Methinks not. Especially if there is no demand and your value as a customer shows it isn't in our best interest.

A little OT, but we also have those customers who spend $150.00 a year with us and ask us to send them $300.00 worth of literature EVERY YEAR. You know, printed brochures are very expensive to print. How about doing your job as a distributor, get sales and THEN we'll talk about continuing to send you such expensive literature.

[Dips]

Apparently they aren't going to give up

After we got the fax mentioned in my second post, I composed a reply stating simply that I had spoken to the two employees. That the box was opened and they are not entitled to a refund.

I foolishly thought the lack of a reply meant they realized they weren't entitled to a refund.

So I find a voice mail waiting for me when I get back from lunch. It's not the original school lady; it's a new one.

She's trying to claim there was never a seal on the box.

[Which is false; the boxes are sealed at both ends.]

Then she explained that she is "trying to be a good steward of the school's funds."

I guess that's supposed to trump my being a good steward of my company's money? The very money which pays our employees so they can feed themselves and their families?

Anyway. I have to call her back and re-explain that "not entitled to a refund" is our final answer and not open for debate.

It should be fun.

<sigh>

[princess4life]

Keep us posted. these ladies need to clean out there ears and pay attention. And to think they are teaching our nations future

[Boozy]

Anyway. I have to call her back and re-explain that "not entitled to a refund" is our final answer and not open for debate.

Your customer sagas always leave me on the edge of my seat.

[Andara Bledin]

Perhaps you should threaten to put them on the "do not sell to" list if they keep attempting to get an RMA on a product they've already been told they won't be getting an RMA for.

It's not like that $500/10 years is going to break you.

^-.-^

[Dips]

Calling her back was kind of anticlimactic.

I got her voice mail and left a message letting her know that, while the refund decision is final, they are always welcome to call us to get support using the math editor with our product.

They own it. They might as well get some use from it, you know?

Anyway, I haven't heard from them since then.

[cj1991]

A HUGE portion of one our division's customer base is schools. While most districts are decent, we get a few like yours.

We have one right now that's being like this. Granted, it is indeed a big district, and they do a fair amount of business with us, but they're getting impossible to deal with.

We have 3 issues going with them right now.

1) School issues PO with some customized stuff on it. They misspell their own name (and this is a school that teaches our children). Consequently, it gets misspelled on the order. Confirmation goes out with incorrect spelling, and is signed "Ok As Written". They call to complain when it's wrong. They want us to go halfway across the country and pick it up - at our expense - and fix it. When we come up with a cost to fix THEIR error, we are told that we should be doing it for free "for goodwill". When we point out that they supplied us with bad info, then approved the bad info, they remind us that if we want to continue to get their business, we'll work with them. We finally worked it out (and they're not getting away free), but we shouldn't be eating any of it.

2) School receives shipment, and calls looking for an accessory they ordered, but claimed they didn't get. My records show that we didn't have the accessory drop-shipped because our shippers put one on the truck (which they're not supposed to do). Not wanting to give them double the accessory for 1/2 the money, I informed her that my records show that they got it. She said she'd look in to it. She calls back a week later, telling a co-worker that I blew her off. Co-worker is on the other side of the cube from me, and she reminds lady of what took place. She says ok. A week later, she calls another co-worker (who wasn't familiar) and says she now wants proof of delivery of EVERYTHING (even though she said that it wasn't delivered with the other items initially, which would indicate that the other items were indeed delivered). About 10 minutes later, she sends a fax saying "I cancel my request". OK, fine. A week later, she calls my supervisor and says "I'm not paying this bill until we get our accessories - your workers keep blowing me off". Sure. So my boss says "Just send the dang things to shut them up. You can take the $300 off my check".

3) School turns in order without sufficient information. They continually blow us off every time we try to finalize order. Their excuse is that there is construction. Then, one day they call and want item in 1 week. I said no, we need info, and production is 6-12 weeks AFTER receipt of completed info. She absolutely bawled me out, and I politely said "We have been trying for 3 months to finalize this. You kept putting it off for construction. Do you have the information?". She did not. Apparently she couldn't fathom that getting us completed info asap will make life easier when you need delivery. After making a few calls, I found out she got in trouble for that one. I finally got my info, and it's going to be out of my life very soon, and hopefully we'll get a break from this district for a while.......


Sorry to steal your thread there. I'm really surprised they didn't jump at the "see if another school needs it" option. A lot of our schools jump at that when things go wrong.

[Boozy]

I can't believe these asswipes are responsible for the education and well-being of children.