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**Akasa** · 02-07-2013, 04:39 AM

Every time he comes over and won't leave or tries to push past call the cops. Tell your mom not to respond to his texts at all, but to save them for evidence. When he's doing drive by's call the cops. Get a paper trail started. THEN you can get a restraining order or even a PO.

There's a message board I go to that deals with narcissists and people with personality disorders. What is sounds like is you guys are trying to put him on extinction so he's ramping up his behavior "HOW DARE YOU IGNORE ME!?!?" So he's saying and doing anything to get a reaction.

**Kisa** · 02-07-2013, 04:47 AM

She bought a memory card and has been saving all the crazy messages he sends. The difficult part is they have a son in common who he has visitation rights for. Mom told him not to text or call unless it's important and about their son only. Now, he will call and lead with something irrelevant about their son like "what flavor juice does he like" then dives into the yelling and accusations. He invents reasons to call, text, drop by, etc. He's impossible to deal with. No matter what plan we use, he finds a way to poke holes in it.

**Andara Bledin** · 02-07-2013, 05:59 AM

Cut off the calls, entirely. There is nothing he can't say in a text and texts can be used as evidence.

And I absolutely second the advice to start calling the cops and having them tresspass his ass any time he comes over and doesn't immediately leave. Especially call when he's doing that stalky driving by constantly thing - there's absolutely zero reason to do that, ever.

^-.-^

**Seshat** · 02-07-2013, 06:01 AM

Locked doors, locked windows. Security screens on doors and windows. (He WILL break a window to come in, if he finds the doors locked to him.)
New keys, of course.

And yes, report his every trespass and harassment to the police, as well as keeping a record of it yourselves.

And find the local community of abused spouses and children. THEY will have ideas, and experience. Experience that I (thankfully) don't have - but which will be incredibly helpful to you and your mother and siblings.

**Dips** · 02-07-2013, 03:05 PM

First. This is incredibly worrisome. Frankly staying alive is your first priority. It comes before keeping the house or any other consideration.

Also...

Quoth Kisa View Post

By now, you're probably thinking, "but Kisa, if you're so scared, why not get a restraining order? Surely that will stop him". Well, I did. In fact, all three of us did. And all three were denied. We can choose to fight the denials and take the case before a judge, but we have to serve the Sociopath with the papers a week before the hearing. For that week, we will be unprotected.

It sounds like you were badly misinformed by the entity who denied you the PPO. Try again. Here is a link to the relevant laws covering the situation:

http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_...I#content-3894

Two things which are mentioned in the above link are:

1. Your father cannot be notified that you have even sought a PPO until AFTER it is in effect.

2. Stalking by a father (or spouse) is considered a form of domestic abuse and IS specifically mentioned as a reason to issue a PPO.

I hope that helps.

Please take care of yourself.

**Shangri-laschild** · 02-07-2013, 03:20 PM

Quoth Kisa View Post

She bought a memory card and has been saving all the crazy messages he sends. The difficult part is they have a son in common who he has visitation rights for. Mom told him not to text or call unless it's important and about their son only. Now, he will call and lead with something irrelevant about their son like "what flavor juice does he like" then dives into the yelling and accusations. He invents reasons to call, text, drop by, etc. He's impossible to deal with. No matter what plan we use, he finds a way to poke holes in it.

I do agree with Andara about text only if possible. But despite custody, she can't get in trouble for hanging up on him not matter what he calls about to start with. My sister for a while had joint custody with her ex. Any time he started berating her on the phone she hung up.

When someone knocks on the door, start asking who it is before you open the door. It prevents him from shoving in if the door is closed and locked.

While it might take a week to fight the restraining order, all of the interactions with the police in the mean time will help when you do get to make your case. Also the sooner this is started the sooner it can be taken care of. Also the police might have some advice on things that can be done to help you guys document things and stay safe as well as increasing the likelihood of getting the restraining orders.

See if your mom's boss is willing to ban him from where ever she works.

**BroSCFischer** · 02-07-2013, 04:05 PM

Something else you might want to consider is having your mother seek SUPERVISED visitation for the child.

This way there is a 3rd party present when he has custody of the child.

I wouldn't put it past someone like him to try to mentally/physically abuse the child, when he no longer has the ability to do so to the 3 of you.

SC

**~~PepperElf~~** · 02-07-2013, 04:32 PM

Quoth Kisa View Post

She bought a memory card and has been saving all the crazy messages he sends. The difficult part is they have a son in common who he has visitation rights for. Mom told him not to text or call unless it's important and about their son only. Now, he will call and lead with something irrelevant about their son like "what flavor juice does he like" then dives into the yelling and accusations. He invents reasons to call, text, drop by, etc. He's impossible to deal with. No matter what plan we use, he finds a way to poke holes in it.

I'd recommend talking to the divorce lawyer and showing him/her the evidence of the continued abuse and that he's using comments about the son to force your mom to talk to him.

She may be able to sue for complete custody. Or at least set it up where he can ONLY talk to her about the son through the lawyer?

Something else you might want to consider is having your mother seek SUPERVISED visitation for the child.
This way there is a 3rd party present when he has custody of the child.

Depends on who's doing the supervision. If it's the mother than that could be used against her, but if it's the attorney then that may be a better option.

As others have said, if you haven't changed the locks yet then do so now. And yes call the police as much as you have to. (Deadbolts with spring locks, lock both at all times).

In fact I'd say... don't even open the door for him. When it comes for visitation, have the son ready and waiting outside with an adult (perhaps the lawyer as well). There is no need for this to happen inside where he can try to prowl around.

You may also want to consider installing video surveillance. It's not as pricy as what it use to be. That way you can...
1) See who it is before opening the door - and view from a secure location. (it doesn't have to be a visible camera either)
2) Tell any visitor, "no, go away" without being near the door. (intercom)
3) Use the video as proof of him trying to break in or force his way in.

And of course call the cops WHENEVER he tries to force his way in. He's the EX, so he has no legal right to be inside your home without permission. No matter what excuse he brings up.

**BroSCFischer** · 02-07-2013, 07:13 PM

Quoth PepperElf View Post

Depends on who's doing the supervision. If it's the mother than that could be used against her, but if it's the attorney then that may be a better option.

With court ordered supervised visitation, usually a social worker (or other court designated 3rd party) is the supervisor. And most times it occurs at a neutral location so the supervised parent is not in a position to put the child in danger.

SC

**Andara Bledin** · 02-07-2013, 09:46 PM

Nekojin has actually been the neutral 3rd party, before. Although, as his mother was one of the attorneys, he wasn't entirely neutral, but he was neutral enough as far as both parties were concerned. Also, those visitations were at the father's home. He had to be there prior to the ex-wife's arrival to drop the child off and stay until her departure when she picked the child up again.

It's worth noting that this happened in the state of California; things may be different where you are.

^-.-^

**yeahwhatev** · 02-07-2013, 11:06 PM

Saying that he came in for "fill in the blank" (and then stayed) means he still has keys to the premises. Changing locks is as simple as buying as many new handles as needed, and changing two screws. Now, you may have older or off brand locks, so taking one set to Home Depot or Lowes might be a good idea. If you aren't handy, and can afford the extra hundred bucks, a locksmith can replace or rekey the existing locks. After you do that, be sure that all windows are barred or locked with something that will actually keep someone out. (A lot of the psuedo-metal clasps on Anderson style window will hold up under zero pressure)

Call the cops EVERY time he shows up. You can request the officers mention the "neighbors calling about noise" but especially since you have been refused a restraining order, you need PROOF. Buying a gun is not a great suggestion, if you aren't already trained. People do not take learning well while stressed. Introducing one into a volatile situation, with an untrained and inexperienced hand on the trigger, could make things worse rather than better.

A Stun gun on the other hand, might come in handy. Unfortunately, you need a permit in Michigan for one. Mace is illegal as well. Pepper spray is less effective, but legal. Understand that these are for breaking away from an attacker and getting somewhere safe. Attacking with them is not only illegal, it's not so bright when dealing with a warped mind. The mindset is "what if he grabs me?"

http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/re...shtml#products

**Jester** · 02-08-2013, 03:46 AM

Oh, good lord. Daddy Dearest. I hate guys like this.

First things first; everything starts with your mother. SHE needs to reapply for the restraining order, and before doing so, needs to get advice on how to do so from her lawyer. SHE needs to ask for an emergency hearing with the court to make them realize how serious the situation is, whether she does this through the criminal courts or the family courts, or both. An family law judge CAN issue an order to keep someone from a home if they feel there is danger to the child whose custody is being disputed. And SHE needs to have the fucking locks changed. If she is not willing to do these things, she is enabling this jackass to torture and harass all three of you. I hope for your sake she IS willing to step up and stop letting him push you all around.

Now, that being said, definitely call the cops whenever there is an issue. He's forcing himself into the house? Call the cops. Pushing you around? Call the cops. Making wild accusations? Call the cops. Yes, there are going to be situation where the cops can't legally do anything. But they WILL see that this guy is a fucking lunatic (hopefully shifting their attitudes from neutral and annoyed to sympathetic towards you three), and there will also be documentation of every incident.

Finally, if the cops and courts are not working, it may be time to involve extracurricular help. Specifically a male friend to have a nice little discussion with this lunatic. Someone who can politely yet firmly suggest to him that it is in his best interests to stop being a complete and total jackhole. Hopefully you're getting my point, but if you need a more thoroughly detailed explanation, feel absolutely free to PM me.

**Seshat** · 02-08-2013, 04:06 AM

Quoth BroSCFischer View Post

With court ordered supervised visitation, usually a social worker (or other court designated 3rd party) is the supervisor. And most times it occurs at a neutral location so the supervised parent is not in a position to put the child in danger.

SC

I was going to mention that - it's most often a third party, and if a third party isn't the immediate recommendation, your mother can request it. And can request that the third party be a court-ordered one.

Note that the word of a court-ordered third party is also going to carry a lot of weight with a judge or magistrate - if said third party states that he/she witnessed abuse towards your mother or the child, it will be taken seriously.

ALSO:

Any legal adult, or any minor of sufficient age, can take out a restraining order on their own behalf. While your mother should definitely attempt to make out the primary restraining order in this situation, if YOU are being harassed and/or abused by your father, YOU can take out your own RO on your own behalf.

**BroSCFischer** · 02-08-2013, 09:09 AM

Quoth Jester View Post

Specifically a male friend to have a nice little discussion with this lunatic. Someone who can politely yet firmly suggest to him that it is in his best interests to stop being a complete and total jackhole.

Jester, Usually your advice is spot on, but if this guy is as nuts as Kisa describes, do you REALLY think THIS is going to work?

SC

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I'm at my wits end...please help :(

I'm at my wits end...please help :(

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