Doubling up

[BPFH]

my husband told me a story of helping with a home renovation (i think it was his mother's house) and there was a single ceiling light in the hallway or foyer or something, and they flipped every single breaker in the box, and it didn't go out... they flipped the MAIN and it STILL didn't go out! O.o\

not sure what they did to fix that particular FUBAR, but dang... that's bad. XD

To say the least. Whoever did it must have somehow managed to wire it in upstream of the main switch. Ouch.

My house is 130+ years old, so I doubt very much if it originally had electrical service, but it certainly has electrical oddities. I've got multiple rooms split across multiple breakers--and not in logical ways, but seemingly at random. Odds are, though, that if a breaker goes, it's breaker #2 (labeled "Various Lights & Switches.") I think there's at least one plug or switch on that circuit in every room in the house.

[mhkohne]

To say the least. Whoever did it must have somehow managed to wire it in upstream of the main switch. Ouch.

My house is 130+ years old, so I doubt very much if it originally had electrical service, but it certainly has electrical oddities. I've got multiple rooms split across multiple breakers--and not in logical ways, but seemingly at random. Odds are, though, that if a breaker goes, it's breaker #2 (labeled "Various Lights & Switches.") I think there's at least one plug or switch on that circuit in every room in the house.

I would be willing to bet a small amount of money that it's not only upstream of the main breaker, but upstream of the electric meter. I'm also willing to bet that there is an outlet or something on that circuit, that the former owners had a high-electric using appliance plugged into.

It's dangerous as all hell, but some people are just stupid and will do anything to try to get something for free...

[TheSHAD0W]

Assuming we're talking America, that violates code. Each 120V circuit is required to be delivered on its own separate line.

http://www.ieci.org/newsroom-and-ins...ranch-circuits

[CaptainThrifty]

This isn't uncommon practice, two hots on either side of a 240V single-phase service with a shared neutral. You'll notice the breakers were side by side, this means they were on opposite phases of the service.

Although you were an electrician in the navy, household wiring has some differences and I strongly recommend you read up on it before doing more work.

Actually the two breakers were one above the other, which as far as I can tell means they are on the same phase. As to naval being different from civilian I am well aware of that, which is why I refuse to deal with the service entrance/breaker box. I keep to simple rerouting and replacing of old wire.

[XCashier]

...we discovered that the previous owner of that house had done some of his own electrical work -- using masking tape.

I'm no electrician, and even I can see the problem there! Fire hazard, anyone?

(Not to mention, masking tape has no strength for holding stuff together. It's meant to mask off areas for painting, nothing more.)

[wolfie]

Actually the two breakers were one above the other, which as far as I can tell means they are on the same phase. As to naval being different from civilian I am well aware of that, which is why I refuse to deal with the service entrance/breaker box. I keep to simple rerouting and replacing of old wire.

I've seen the "guts" of standard breaker boxes. They're set up so that in a given row of breakers, any 2 adjacent positions are on opposite phases (the 2 breakers in the same row position but in opposite rows are on the same phase). This is done so that if you need a 240 volt circuit, you merely put its breakers in adjacent positions with a mechanical tie on the handles so that they're either both "ON" or both "OFF". The circuit described by the OP (4-wire cable to an outlet box) should have been set up with the mechanical tie on the breakers.

[Seanette]

I'm no electrician, and even I can see the problem there! Fire hazard, anyone?

(Not to mention, masking tape has no strength for holding stuff together. It's meant to mask off areas for painting, nothing more.)

DH (apprentice electrician) and I actually tested the flammability of masking tape. Took it outdoors, tore a strip, lit it.

It burned very enthusiastically. DH is now muttering about trying an intact roll.

[CaptainThrifty]

I've seen the "guts" of standard breaker boxes. They're set up so that in a given row of breakers, any 2 adjacent positions are on opposite phases (the 2 breakers in the same row position but in opposite rows are on the same phase). This is done so that if you need a 240 volt circuit, you merely put its breakers in adjacent positions with a mechanical tie on the handles so that they're either both "ON" or both "OFF". The circuit described by the OP (4-wire cable to an outlet box) should have been set up with the mechanical tie on the breakers.

And this is why I don't mess with the breaker box. I was not aware of the phase thing. Naval systems are either straight 3 phase or single phase. You'll never have two phases in the same panel of single phase loads.

[Plague*Star]

...and they flipped every single breaker in the box, and it didn't go out... they flipped the MAIN and it STILL didn't go out! O.o\

My grandmother's house was built in 1835. About 1890, it was divided into two houses. Some time later, her half was divided again, and the second floor rear was turned into a studio apartment. At some point, the house was rewired, probably about 1950.
Forward to the 1970s. My father was doing some work on the apartment, between tenants. He needed to do something to the outlet in the kitchen that the fridge was plugged into. He went down to the basement, and turned off the breaker. Back upstairs, he checked and found the outlet still live. Back to the basement, turn off all the breakers for the apartment. Outlet still live. Basement, turn off ALL breakers for the entire house. Outlet still live!
It turned out that that outlet was connected to the other part of the house that had been split so long ago. The owners of the other house had been paying for the tenant's refrigerator for decades.
P*S

[Javarod]

http://www.ieci.org/newsroom-and-ins...ranch-circuits

Boy, am i out of date, glancing through that, i've never even heard of an AFCI before, but then i learned in vocational school during 11th grade, and graduated class of 90. Kids these days, just gotta make things complicated.

[Ironclad Alibi]

Has anybody run into knob and tube wiring? I came across it in the early 70s in the garage of a house I was renting.

[dalesys]

Has anybody run into knob and tube wiring?

Yep. We could call it Wizard's Staff wiring, but Gytha would start singing about hedgehogs.

[bbbr]

The house is bought is young enough to be wired with romex but for whatever reason the people who built it used a predecessor to romex in wide of styles (14g with/ ground and without, 12g also in both flavors) as they went along. Been tearing that stuff and replacing it with the 12g grounded as rooms get rewired and outlets replaced with new, non-cracked apart ones.

The kitchen has been a particular delight- every single freaking outlet had it's own breaker, none of which were gfci despite the modern circuit breaker design. Pulled out 7 surplus breakers as part of the "fun"...

[wolfie]

The kitchen has been a particular delight- every single freaking outlet had it's own breaker, none of which were gfci despite the modern circuit breaker design. Pulled out 7 surplus breakers as part of the "fun"...

Are you SURE the breakers are surplus? A lot of kitchen gizmos are high-drain. Don't know about where you are, but around here code for new kitchens requires that the counter have 2 duplex outlets, each of which has its 2 "halves" on separate circuits (for a total of 4 breakers). If the counter is longer than a specified length, you need a 3rd duplex outlet, but it's OK for the 2 "end" outlets to share a pair of breakers (i.e. 1st outlet is A/B, 2nd is C/D, 3rd is A/B again).

[bbbr]

They honestly were- the electric stove and fridge each had there own breaker (as they should) but the vent hood, and 7 other stand alone wall outlets all had their own breakers scattered throughout the panel. The whole space is only 10x12 with a massive farm sink with minimal counters; I suspect they were making things as they went along (for example the bathroom has no outlets and the light switch is down the hall...) during construction.