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  • Worst Parents in the World (But not if I can do something about it)

    So, my husband and I are friends with a couple, I'll call them John and Jane.

    John is a pretty goofy guy and is on the Autistic spectrum (not sure if high functioning or Aspie), but he's able to function fairly normally as far as holding down a job and paying bills and taxes and that sort of thing and would make an ok dad if he were married to the right kind of woman.

    Unfortunately, Jane is NOT that woman. Jane is bipolar and has brain damage from a car accident that is so bad that she is unable to learn new things (concepts and skills) and as such cannot hold a job and is on social security disability.

    On top of this, they are the worst housekeepers I have ever seen short of some of the people I've seen on Hoarders. They once had a cat that had something wrong with it and the cat would piss all over the house, but they didn't do anything to get the cat's problem fixed or to clean up the piss. The fumes from the ammonia were so bad they'd knock you over at the front door. Not long after we discovered that (and stopped going over to their home), John got a heart infection and was hospitalized to get IV antibiotics. He recovered, but it was discovered he got sick from how filthy their home was. They either don't know or can't be bothered to do the basics to keep a home clean. We won't eat anything they have prepared at their home nor any food they've had in their home unless it's still sealed in the original factory packaging. It's that bad. They once had to pay to have a new air conditioner installed because they never changed the air filter (they didn't know you were supposed to). This is just to give you a basic idea of how they live.

    It has come to our attention that this couple are now trying to have a baby. I don't know if they are trying to conceive (since she's not supposed to conceive on her bipolar med cocktail but isn't supposed to go off of her meds, either) or to adopt.

    If they try to adopt, I'm sure they'll ask us to be a reference and I can tell the agent in charge of background checks my concerns and that will most likely put an end to that.

    But, if they are trying to conceive, is there anything I can do to intervene?

    I am 100% convinced that this couple should NEVER have children.

    Besides from the condition of their home, they don't have any common sense when it comes to children (like watching a toddler put something sharp it found on the floor in it's mouth isn't something that you find cute and sit there and just watch and be amused by). I am honestly convinced that should they have a baby they will end up causing it severe physical harm or even killing it, accidentally or through ignorance, or through neglect, or through shaken-baby syndrome.

    They cannot afford daycare, but Jane is convinced that that is where the baby will be most of the time, even though she is always at home (she is rather delusional when it comes to a LOT of things, she doesn't really "live" in reality).

    My husband says it's not our choice and I should stay out of it. This is weighing very heavily on me.

    Advice? Thoughts?
    Don't wanna; not gonna.

  • #2
    If it happens that they should manage to conceive and birth a child, call Social Services or Child Protective Services and let them know that child is in extreme danger, and tell them why. Other than that, I can't really think of anything you can do unless you can somehow convince one or the other of them that sterilization is something they have to do to be able to have a kid.....
    You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

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    • #3
      There's not a lot you can do at the moment, however should Jane fall pregnant you'd have to report them to whatever service deals with child safety in your country. No child should be exposed to such risk - after all if Jane can't learn new skills how will she raise a child safely?
      A PSA, if I may, as well as another.

      Comment


      • #4
        In Canada, so yours may be different.

        I have a history of mental health problems, have been hospitalized several times for mental health problems before I found the drugs that worked best for me, and have been under doctors care for mental health problems for more than 1/2 my life. I also have zero record of being a danger to others in any way at all. When I was pregnant I had to go off my anti-psychotic medications, and chose to stop taking other mental health medications because of unknown effects on the baby. I was monitored extremely closely during the pregnancy and for the next year after I stopped breast feeding and returned to medication. I had to be hospitalized a few times for short stays during the pregnancy for mental health issues and again a couple of weeks after my son was born, which is when I decided to stop breast feeding, and return to medicated life. The nature of my monitoring included: 3 times weekly visits to doctors including both obgyn and psychiatrists; home visits from nurses before the birth to see the preparations to the apartment (crib, change station etc); weekly home visits after the birth by trained health care workers (I'm not sure if they were nurses or what) to monitor the baby, the apartment, give advice on sleeping, feeding whatever; 3 times weekly visits to the psychiatrist after the birth for about 10 months until I was back on meds properly and he was convinced I was good; visit every two weeks to the obgyn with my kid to monitor his progress.

        This was all more or less mandatory due to my mental health history, even though I had the help and support of a husband with no scary history, a full time job and a firm grasp on reality. It wasn't completely obligatory, but I was told if I didn't accept the help I would be dealing directly with CAS, as doctors are required to report to CAS any suspicion of danger to a child.

        If the woman is on bipolar cocktail of meds she would have to be under regular doctors care, and would probably be recommended to a similar support course for pregnancy and baby care as I had, if such things are offered in the states. If they are adopting from within the country they would certainly be screened including home visits for suitable home for a baby. Either way I think that someone else would already be looking at the family closely, and you wouldn't have to worry.

        If they are adopting from a country with a less thorough screening process (or none), there is not much you can do until after they take charge of the child, and then you will have to act as your conscience dictates, but if I truly believed a child to be in danger than I would call CAS.
        Pain and suffering are inevitable...misery is optional.

        Comment


        • #5
          If the situation would not call for monitoring as NecessaryCatharsis was monitored (and thank you, NC, for being willing to share that), then I agree that you might want to contact your local child protection agency as soon as you know she's pregnant, just to give them a heads-up. Agencies such as those are usually pleased to get advance warning of a potential problem, even if (as is standard) there is nothing they can actually do (or nothing that needs to be done) right at the moment.

          Comment


          • #6
            Before they consider having a baby, they should get the home all cleaned up and prepared. Try hiring a live-in housekeeper or at least some regular cleaning service to do it for them.
            cindybubbles (👧 ❤️ 🎂 )

            Enter Cindyland here!

            Comment


            • #7
              I hate to say it. but I think I'd risk the friendship to try and talk them out of this. Maybe there's some way to get them to realize that they might not be up to this task? I realize that this would be next to impossible, but the other advice seems to be emphasizing an 'after the fact' sort of reaction.

              ETA:

              Maybe approaching it from a "We don't want you to be heartbroken" angle would help. They'd still realize that you don't believe they are capable of raising a child, but it might take some of the sting out of it.
              Last edited by sms001; 01-27-2014, 04:42 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Quoth NecessaryCatharsis View Post
                In Canada, so yours may be different.

                I have a history of mental health problems, When I was pregnant I had to go off my anti-psychotic medications, and chose to stop taking other mental health medications because of unknown effects on the baby. I was monitored extremely closely during the pregnancy and for the next year after I stopped breast feeding and returned to medication.
                NC, you did things exactly right for someone with the problems you have. You also have the great good fortune to live in a country that provides good health care to all it citizens. That kind of health care is not generally available to most of the public in the US.

                I think the key difference here is that Jane is not properly medicated to begin with, and has zero insight into her illness. Combined with John who may be truly autistic or an Aspie and lives in his own perception of reality (and may have other underlying mental health issues), a pregnancy is a recipe for disaster.

                Quoth sms001 View Post
                I hate to say it. but I think I'd risk the friendship to try and talk them out of this.
                Maybe approaching it from a "We don't want you to be heartbroken" angle would help. They'd still realize that you don't believe they are capable of raising a child, but it might take some of the sting out of it.
                It won't work. They'll just get angry and shut the OP out. Which might not be a bad thing.

                If Jane gets pregnant, the OP should call DSS/CPS. Their home is not fit for a baby; social services will make them clean it up or take the baby away from them.

                That would be the best thing that could happen to the baby. These people are not capable of raising a baby.
                They say that God only gives us what we can handle. Apparently, God thinks I'm a bad ass.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If there's a disability welfare or adult welfare agency in your part of the world, contact them NOW. By the sound of things, the condition of their house and their general lifestyle would qualify them (at least where I am) for social services support and oversight.

                  Once they have social services oversight, the issue of whether or not they can care for a baby should be handled by their social worker - and you get to have intervention happening before pregnancy.

                  NecessaryCatharsis: I like how you and your medical team went about your pregnancy. Protecting both you and bubs.
                  Seshat's self-help guide:
                  1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                  2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                  3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                  4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                  "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is there any way you can contact her doctor and give them a heads up that she's thinking of getting pregnant? They won't be able to tell you anything, of course, but there's nothing stopping you from sending them a note outlining your concerns, and hopefully they will be able to bring up the issue with her, if she hasn't done so already (and she sounds like she might be the type to not discuss it with her doctor first). Not the best solution, since you have no way of knowing if they've done anything with the information (unless she tells you herself) but it might do some good.

                    If they try to adopt, and if they are dealing with any kind of reputable agency (whether domestic or international), from the sound of things there is no way they will be approved. A friend of mine adopted 3 kids from China (a girl at <2 years old, and then a few years later two boys who were about 6 and 7 at the time), all with special needs, and the agency was very thorough in performing screenings to make sure they were capable of providing a good home. (Hell, they couldn't even put in their application until my friend turned 30.) Adoption is also rather expensive so that may well be a block before they even get that far.
                    I don't go in for ancient wisdom
                    I don't believe just 'cause ideas are tenacious
                    It means that they're worthy - Tim Minchin, "White Wine in the Sun"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for your input, everyone!

                      I haven't seen the couple in question, so I haven't done or said anything.

                      My husband did point out to me that he knows John isn't really the one wanting kids, it's all Jane trying to talk him into having them all based on the fact that #1 and #2 (children of another couple who are mutual friends of all of us) are "cute."

                      Apparently, he does not find this argument compelling.

                      Wish I'd known this earlier, so I wouldn't have freaked out.

                      SO, hopefully John will stick to not wanting them and disaster will be averted.
                      Don't wanna; not gonna.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maybe tell him to stock up on condoms or something...
                        My Guide to Oblivion

                        "I resent the implication that I've gone mad, Sprocket."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quoth Tama View Post
                          Maybe tell him to stock up on condoms or something...
                          or get snipped ... if she is so set on popping out a sprog she may go off her BC meds...
                          EVE Online: 99% of the time you sit around waiting for something to happen, but that 1% of action is what hooks people like crack, you don't get interviewed by the BBC for a WoW raid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quoth AccountingDrone View Post
                            or get snipped ...

                            I thought of this too, after reading that John didn't want to have kids.

                            If she's averse to John getting snipped, maybe he could do it discreetly? I think there's a way to do it now that isn't so invasive, and if so, perhaps it would not be so obvious to Jane that he'd done so. I don't normally like to be, or suggest others be, deceptive, but this might call for that.

                            Do John and/or Jane have any family nearby that they are in close contact with? Any other close friends? This might call for teaming up with them, to have a larger group of folks that care, urge them not to have kids. Gently, and compassionately, if possible, but maybe with a little firmness if necessary.

                            Mike
                            Meow.........

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Syringe. A particular variant of silicone. Insert needle into the appropriate vessel, inject just enough silicone to completely seal the vessel. Rinse and repeat on the other side.

                              Wait a month. Test.


                              Apparently with a scalpel, tweezers and careful suturing, the plug can be removed with a fair chance of successful restoration of fertility. As the removal process is improved, this might become the first truly reversible, reliable form of birth control for men!
                              Seshat's self-help guide:
                              1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                              2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                              3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                              4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                              "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                              Comment

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