I get to put a SC in their place.

[Pixelated]

With us it's simple; if there's no-one at home to dog-sit, and we can't take him wherever it is with us, we don't go.

My mother's last dog was fine being left at home ... except ... if she was somewhere OTHER than home aaaand if there was a thunderstorm going on.

We found that out when Mom and the dog came to visit me. We left the dog in my apartment while we went out to dinner ... thunderstorm came up ... and we returned to a complaint from a neighbour about the dog's howling.

Oops.

We made darn sure we made other arrangements for the rest of their visit ... takeout places or places with an outdoor eating area and such.

Unfortunately, way too many people in North America are seriously germaphobic and would go ballistic at even the most well-behaved dog in a food area.

Please note: I'm not including those with genuine allergies in this. But I went to the UK years ago and we stopped a little cafe to eat. The family dog sauntered through. Glanced briefly at the customers but did NOT in any way display any interest whatever in anybody's food. Went and sat on the sidewalk, watched the world go by for a while, then sauntered back through the cafe in the other direction. I suspect even in most places on this side of the pond, that dog's behaviour would not have been good enough.

[greek_jester]

But I went to the UK years ago and we stopped a little cafe to eat. The family dog sauntered through. Glanced briefly at the customers but did NOT in any way display any interest whatever in anybody's food. Went and sat on the sidewalk, watched the world go by for a while, then sauntered back through the cafe in the other direction. I suspect even in most places on this side of the pond, that dog's behaviour would not have been good enough.

We love our dogs. While they won't be allowed in most restaurants and shops (you can usually take them in pet shops and some independent shops), most pubs and many cafes allow them, so it's not hard to find somewhere to eat. The rules are interesting for pubs; if they have an actual "restaurant" area you can't take the dog in there, but the bar area and family rooms are fine.

[Argus]

lunging, barking, pulling the lead, and our favorite- not housebroken.

Note that misbehavior, especially "not housebroken", is as legitimate for excluding a genuine service dog as it would be for excluding a human.

[AkaiKitsune]

Note that misbehavior, especially "not housebroken", is as legitimate for excluding a genuine service dog as it would be for excluding a human.

Yep. The logic being is that even though it's a service dog its behaviour has reached a point where it is unsafe for other customers. While a customer is under your roof the business is liable. If a dog were to lunge and knock someone over, that is an injury that the business is responsible for. If someone were to crack there head and need medical, that can be a nasty bill for the store if the person chooses to sue (looking at you guys in the states who don't have free medical for a good example). By allowing the dog in the store you are partially responsible for its actions (the handler being the other party responsible). If the dog bites someone, that falls on the business. If it's bad behaviour causes the business money there's the chance they could recuperate their losses by going to court with the owner. But because they allowed the dog in and never told it to leave before it became a problem they would be at a disadvantage defending their case.

That being said. Service dogs are trained to react in a certain way to certain stimuli. If for example, a service dog came up to someone not their handler because they sensed that person was going to have a medical issue then that is different. But those will be very specific ques so that the human is aware of their problem about to happen and does the appropriate action to avoid a medical issue. An example is that some seizure dogs get very pushy in their attempts to encourage their human to get down on the floor because if they had a seizure while standing they could fall and hurt themselves. A service dog for diabetes might start barking until their human took action. Like bringing out the stabby stabby to check blood sugar. That being said once the dog has the que that their human is alerted they should stop the behaviour. It is just as important to figure out if a service dog is acting a certain way because it's doing its job and not write off all 'annoying' behaviour as being fake.

[jedimaster91]

It is just as important to figure out if a service dog is acting a certain way because it's doing its job and not write off all 'annoying' behaviour as being fake.

Along those lines and something I didn't realize until recently, if a service dog approaches you without its person, FOLLOW THEM. Their person might be down and in need of help.

[Rosco the Iroc]

I like asking what kind of service dog and the answer is "ahh to Help? "

[earl colby pottinger]

Same story again

I posted this before. but I thought I would post it again.

I went on a 21 day cruise, three service dogs came on-board at the same time.

I meet all the dogs, but noticed one dog seemed to be very excitable.

On the way to the final port I notice that I had only seen two of the dogs for days, when I asked around I found out that the third dog was not a service dog and the owner had faked the papers.

The response of the cruise-line was to drop her, her dog and her luggage off at the next port of call (some island in the Caribbean) and leave to her to figure out how to get home.

PS. I don't know where they left her off, but some islands are very anal about dogs and what treatments/vaccines the dog have had before coming to the island.

[AkaiKitsune]

I posted this before. but I thought I would post it again.

I went on a 21 day cruise, three service dogs came on-board at the same time.

I meet all the dogs, but noticed one dog seemed to be very excitable.

On the way to the final port I notice that I had only seen two of the dogs for days, when I asked around I found out that the third dog was not a service dog and the owner had faked the papers.

The response of the cruise-line was to drop her, her dog and her luggage off at the next port of call (some island in the Caribbean) and leave to her to figure out how to get home.

PS. I don't know where they left her off, but some islands are very anal about dogs and what treatments/vaccines the dog have had before coming to the island.

Good for them. See everytime someone takes their pet and calls it a service dog so they can get in places they can't otherwise take a dog, then that dog acts like an asshole because it was never trained on how to handle those situations... It looks bad on legit service dogs.

Now, most people are used to service dogs like golden retrievers and labs. But the truth is they come in many forms. Since I train service dogs specifically for people with Cerebral Palsy and early MS there's more things asked of them then say a dog who services the blind. I also train bigger dogs for bigger people because I don't believe it's alright for someone to be unable to get the service dog they require (and consequently have to pay for a human caretaker, which most times aren't covered by govt services) because their heavier set then some others. I'm not talking grossly obese but simply built heavier. One of the dangers, particularly in early MS, partly because people don't like having to admit they can no longer do the things they once did easily, is muscle deterioration leads to weakness which leads to falls and accidents. If the handler falls, say in a crosswalk, because of an accident or sudden muscle issues or because they pushed themselves too hard that day, there's three options available to them to avoid serious injury. One: They are able to pull themselves up with the help of the dog. Two: a bystander is able to assist them to their feet. Or three: The dog has to be able to assist/pull/drag the person out of the dangerous area and into safe ground (in this case the sidewalk) as a last resort. But if you weigh 190lbs because you are a bigger person and maybe have some mobility issues when it comes to exercise, a little golden retriever isn't going to cut it. I trained Ridgebacks and short haired mastiffs (short hair in respect to the fact that they will be required to go into food establishments and less shedding means less issue for other people when it comes to allergies). People just aren't used to seeing a dog that big as a service dog. Every time that I do training I get the "are you sure it's a service dog? You're not just playing dress up with the family pet?" Or "I've seen service dogs before and they aren't those breeds" or "if it's a service dog why is it acting like that?". The last usually when I'm teaching them to accept going on the bus, to which I reply that he/she is in training and this is a new part of it so please be patient while he learns that the magic moving carpet isn't going to open up and eat him. (Then I can go over manner, then how to assist, then recognizing potential hazards/dangers, then how to deal with those hazards/dangers as they come up or to avoid them all together). Because I train bigger dogs I usually do this part while they're still young and relatively small both because it's easier to manage the dog and because it's safer for everyone involved. I always have my liscence to train and the dog's individual liscence and vest that clearly states they are in training so they have more leeway. After they can handle a normal bus I can introduce things like lowering/raising the ramp (it makes noise and the floor goes down. It could set the dog off but usually by then they don't care about such cases things.)

I still get people who think it's okay to pet them if they're only in training. The problem is that the dog wants a 'treat'. This is usually in the form of a actual treat or a verbal or physical acknowledgment of a good job when training. This is given by the trainer because you want the dog's attention on the person it's supposed to be working with. Petting is a form of reinforcement or acknowledgement. If the dog learns that the passing humans will pet me for no reason and the handler will only pet me for doing something first then it's attention will switch to the people walking by and will no longer be focused on its handler. Depending on the dog and how often this can set a dogs training back by months because now you have to ruin that expectation and redo a bunch of training. Whereas the dog who never gets pets or rewards from anyone except the person holding the leash learns that's where it's attention must always remain. In some cases the dog gets to the point where it expects people to pet and coo and reward him to the point where they will veer of course to see if that gets it anything. Now as a trainer the infraction can be corrected but imagine if your dog did that and you were relying on it for balance?

Ideally the dog should never learn that other people can constitute a reward or that those grocery bags might contain a tasty snack.

And yes, I've had people reach into their groceries for part of a samwich or something else to feed the dog because "he's only in training". One of the reasons aside from money and time that I stopped training service dogs were the amount of parents with children who would go on a tirade about how "if he's going to be a service dog he can't be aggressive so I'm a terrible human being for not letting their kid touch and pet and hug him." Or my favourite excuse for this behaviour is "it'll be good training!" Which I always want to reply with "I'm trained to train service dogs and you aren't. I know their requirements you don't. So don't presume to bend facts to suit your selfish needs." Yes exposure to children is a must. They are an unpredictable and weird group to be accounted for. But even a kindergartener has been told not to pet service dogs.

[Buzzard]

It seems like you need a people (moron) wrangler to go with the leash and the vest while training.

I think I remember seeing such with a group training run with guide dogs for the blind...

And service animal or not, it's always a good idea (and 'common sense') to check in with the human first before doing anything with them.

[AkaiKitsune]

It seems like you need a people (moron) wrangler to go with the leash and the vest while training.

I think I remember seeing such with a group training run with guide dogs for the blind...

And service animal or not, it's always a good idea (and 'common sense') to check in with the human first before doing anything with them.

Oh but that would require people to have common sense. I've posted a few times about my riding horses on the trails (as a part of my job with the stables) and it's like people lose any brain power as soon as somethings bigger then a cat. The amount of times I've had to tell someone that I don't care how much of a special unique snowflake their son/daughter/barbarian horde is/are... I'm not here to give pony rides (for free of course) on a green skittish horse. I had one lady watch me bale twice on the same horse, (I was riding bareback and admittedly fooling around a bit) and demand I give her screaming flailing toddler a ride. Oh, and I was "a selfish bitch" for not letting her kid ride a horse that is very good at dumping his rider with no saddle no bridle (halter w/ clip on reins cuz some days I'm just lazy) and no helmet... Not to mention the flailing and screaming... But I'm the selfish one.

[foxytales]

The US does not require ANY identification or "license" for Service Dogs, they aren't required to wear vests, etc. We donot have to supply "proof" that the dog is indeed a service animal. Yes, employees of places may ask 2 questions and they cannot demand that the dog perform said task--HOWEVER--IF a dog is NOT under the direct control of their partner, is aggressive, misbehaving, causing a disturbance (unrelated to task) or relieves itself (G-d forbid!) you can ABSOLUTELY demand that they REMOVE that dog from ANY establishment! People who take their pets and claim they are service animals ARE committing a Federal crime and CAN be arrested AND fined for it!
I truly wish MORE people did turn these asshats in!! While I understand you just LOVE Fido, if Fido isn't necessary for you to move about and live your everyday life in safety, leave him AT HOME! I have friends with service dogs and have been recommended for one, myself. I know several who have been attacked by these fakes and had their partner rendered useless for the task they were trained for (due to trauma) or even killed by attacks of aggressive pets being where they shouldn't!
While the STORE (restaurant et al) employees may NOT have the ability to confront blatant fakes,the general public is under no such restraint. I'm not saying go after every team--but come on--ALL service animals are trained (yes,that includes privately trained animals) for CGC (canine Good Citizen) and housebreaking. They don't lunge at others, beg for treats or attention from anyone other than their partner and will,in fact, usually IGNORE everybody else unless they're performing task and asking for HELP for their partner human!
~steps off the soapbox and pushes it back into the corner~
goes back to lurking

[Arcus]

I've seen first hand some of the training the dogs go through. When I was working for an arcade, one local training group asked if they could bring their dogs in training into the arcade. They found that the amount of people, noise, flashing lights and other distractions in an arcade on a busy day was a very good way to tell how a dog is able to handle themselves. Because they had asked if it was okay before they started coming in and had bright vests on that said "Service Dog In Training" I was able to calm down anyone that complained to me and explain the importance of why they were using a place that was such a sensory overload for most dogs. If they could handle being in there, they could stay calm almost anywhere.

Not once did we ever have a problem with one of the dogs. I can't say the same for the people that complained.

[earl colby pottinger]

Cruise Lines

The US does not require ANY identification or "license" for Service Dogs, they aren't required to wear vests, etc. We donot have to supply "proof" that the dog is indeed a service animal.

Cruise lines on the other hand have a very long contract that you sign. And the contract makes it clear that pets can't come with you on a cruise.

Service animals have to be allowed. No business can refuse them legally, but if you file fake papers that your pet is a service animal then you have broken the terms of the contract and the ship can dump you the moment they find out you have broken the contract. The fact you are dumped on an island and have to pay your own way home is not their problem.

[dalesys]

... The fact you are dumped on an island and have to pay your own way home is not their problem.

You should be very grateful that they waited until there was an inhabited island before pitching you overboard, schmuck!

[Kit-Ginevra]

I am hoping the irony would not be lost if our fake guy we had in the store were to be dumped on a desert island with his 'service parrots...'