Repairing the Artifact

[roothorick]

At the new job, which I think I'll aptly name the Fun Shop, because the owners are so laid back I can do pretty much anything I want. Seriously, this second job is awesome.

Old man comes in, clearly agitated, expresses surprise at finding a live human being in the Shop. He complains his sound doesn't work, but if he plugs it into the front jack it works. I'm thinking, okay, wrong jack? But he says he understands that there's three, and made sure he had the right one. I say, all right, bring it in.

What a dinosaur that computer was.

It runs Windows 95. It has a 5-pin full size DIN connector for the keyboard, and takes a serial mouse. I had to send him back for his keyboard and mouse because we didn't have any on hand. There's a 3-digit 7seg display on the front panel proudly advertising that the CPU runs at a whopping 233Mhz. And oh yeah, you better believe there was a turbo button. The "front jack" was actually the headphone port on the CD-ROM drive; Windows had somehow lost his soundcard, which was why he wasn't getting anything. I told him that his soundcard or its driver had a problem, and that we don't deal with software issues on OSes that old. He seemed satisfied with that; here's hoping he buys something modern. (Yeah, right.)

I've heard of businesses hanging on to extremely old hardware due to critical business software only being available for those systems, but even when that happens, usually the workstations that access those systems are newer than 2002, and in any case, I thought the home market had a better turnaround than that. I guess when you don't use the Internet at all, you don't notice when the world moves on...

[Hanzoku]

Some people will hang onto their computer past any reasonable timeframe, given how quickly the technology advances. A couple years back, I had one woman in the shop, completely furious that her five year old computer was broken, and that it would be cheaper to buy our bargain computer, which would be five times faster at least.

According to her, computers should be like washing machines, or refrigerators, and not need to be replaced except every ten years or so.

[lordlundar]

Bear in mind, I would have opened it up just to check if there was a SPDIF cable running from the sound card to the drive, if just to eliminate that possibility. (systems that old tended to require an individual cable that ran between the two devices for full functionality. Either one would work or the other if there wasn't one, but you wouldn't get both working without it.)

[roothorick]

Bear in mind, I would have opened it up just to check if there was a SPDIF cable running from the sound card to the drive, if just to eliminate that possibility. (systems that old tended to require an individual cable that ran between the two devices for full functionality. Either one would work or the other if there wasn't one, but you wouldn't get both working without it.)

Oh, I checked, and there was. Windows just didn't see the soundcard (ISA jobbie) at all.

[Kristev]

But actually, I agree with that woman. You shouldn't need to buy a new computer every year, or few years.

[Hyndis]

I get this a lot. People buy the products the company I work for makes. They are very high end, very expensive, but also extremely fast products. It will run rings around older hardware.

However to get the full benefit from it you have to have a modern operating system and modern hardware. This means at least Vista, preferably 7. XP doesn't cut it anymore. XP is a decade old. We do not support anything a decade old. Also your mobo needs to have been made within the past 3 years or so, any older and it likely won't work.

Yet I see people buying $1,000 storage drives for their bargain bin HP computer still running Windows 98, furious as to why the new ultra pimp, top of the line storage drive isn't working in it.

[roothorick]

But actually, I agree with that woman. You shouldn't need to buy a new computer every year, or few years.

I hate to say it, but that's more of a dream to work towards than anything actually achievable with current technology. The "micro" revolution of the 70s and 80s made computers practical to use, but came at a cost: as you go smaller, tolerances shrink, manufacturing defects become increasingly frequent (and much harder to find!), and the smaller parts are much more fragile. End result, they don't last long, and there isn't much you can do to make them more durable without drastically increasing the price and/or sacrificing precious performance. I don't think I need to cover how that kind of business move would work out in this economy.

[mattm04]

I've heard of businesses hanging on to extremely old hardware due to critical business software only being available for those systems, but even when that happens, usually the workstations that access those systems are newer than 2002, and in any case, I thought the home market had a better turnaround than that. I guess when you don't use the Internet at all, you don't notice when the world moves on...

Until late 2009 we had a original 1998 Blue iMac used to maintain some vital records, supposedly backed up to ZIP disk. Every attempt to get the dept to understand that this was a bad idea was rebuffed. It ran Mac OS 8.5, Word 98, AppleWorks 5 and PageMaker 6. They knew it was unsupported and that when it dies IT would not touch it, but insisted on using it because that what they always used and it worked.

Eventually I got permission to take the iMac from the desk and keep it locked in a secure IT closet. The were not happy, whining that they could do their job, sending nasty emails and making nasty calls. Finally they agreed to let us transfer as much data as possible off and we got a new InDesign license to install on their 1 year old Dell PC with Office 2010 and win 7, backed up daily. They still insisted this was not necessary when it was all said and done. That iMac is now a fish tank.

[wynjara]

I intentionally obtained a system running Windows 95. Yes, intentionally. I have programs that either will not or cannot run on anything newer. Heck, we have a system with Windows ME (stop laughing!) that still works fine, if slowly. In my happy little ideal dream world I'm still running 2000, but in the icky real world I think I'm up to 7. And it hurts my brain to look at this list and realize how many systems we've gone through in the 12 years my family has owned a computer.

[roothorick]

I intentionally obtained a system running Windows 95. Yes, intentionally. I have programs that either will not or cannot run on anything newer.

Have you tried Windows 98 in VirtualBox? Guest additions don't work, but as long as what you're doing doesn't need graphics acceleration, it should be cleaner and faster than having a whole separate system just for those few programs. (95 may work -- it's not on their list atm.)

Heck, we have a system with Windows ME (stop laughing!) that still works fine, if slowly.

Ugh. I'd downgrade to 98SE. It's THAT bad.

In my happy little ideal dream world I'm still running 2000, but in the icky real world I think I'm up to 7.

What's wrong with Windows 7? It requires a bit on the hardware side, but it's my favorite Windows so far.

2000 had serious compatibility problems with home-intended software from its era, bad enough that we had to go back to 98SE. Strictly a business OS, really. (98 was our primary OS from its release in, derp, 1998, until around 2003ish when XP started to really catch on.)

And it hurts my brain to look at this list and realize how many systems we've gone through in the 12 years my family has owned a computer.

I'm sure I've been through more computers than you, and I've just accepted that that's the way it will be. I alone am now on my 8th, but I got my start back at the dawn of the IBM PC clone, at a time when only hobbyists and businesses used computers in any major capacity.

[Sapphire Silk]

I've heard of businesses hanging on to extremely old hardware due to critical business software only being available for those systems, but even when that happens, usually the workstations that access those systems are newer than 2002, and in any case, I thought the home market had a better turnaround than that. I guess when you don't use the Internet at all, you don't notice when the world moves on...

Wow. That brings back some memories. I still have data disks and software that used to run on my old 286 machines, most research data from when I was working on my master's thesis.

My parents have had the same computer for over six years now, and that computer actually was not a solely new system even at that time. My brother, who's a computer guy, replaced the mother board and a couple of other cards but kept the hard drive, floppy drive, case, and monitor. The system is still plugging away, though I suspect we will either have to replace the hard drive or the mother board at some time in the very near future.

According to her, computers should be like washing machines, or refrigerators, and not need to be replaced except every ten years or so.

That's actually not an unreasonable expectation. Equipment should last for far longer than it does, if it is built with sufficient quality.

My last PC machine made through 5 years of heavy use and abuse (I'd removed the case cover so many times to swap out cards and upgrade this and that, that the case cover would no longer go back onto the frame). I got my money's worth with it, but had I been kinder and gentler to it (and not moved it from one coast to the other) it would have lasted a lot longer.

And really, for someone who just does email and some web surfing, how much power and speed do you really need? Do you really need the latest and greatest operating system?

Until late 2009 we had a original 1998 Blue iMac used to maintain some vital records, supposedly backed up to ZIP disk. Every attempt to get the dept to understand that this was a bad idea was rebuffed. It ran Mac OS 8.5, Word 98, AppleWorks 5 and PageMaker 6. They knew it was unsupported and that when it dies IT would not touch it, but insisted on using it because that what they always used and it worked.

Eventually I got permission to take the iMac from the desk and keep it locked in a secure IT closet. The were not happy, whining that they could do their job, sending nasty emails and making nasty calls. Finally they agreed to let us transfer as much data as possible off and we got a new InDesign license to install on their 1 year old Dell PC with Office 2010 and win 7, backed up daily. They still insisted this was not necessary when it was all said and done. That iMac is now a fish tank.

Heh. I have MacAddict articles showing how to turn those old iMacs into fish tanks. EE was attempting to do that herself for Evil Prince's fish, but then the fish died .

I still have one of the original iMacs: a 500 mHz Graphite DV . . . the last G3 iMac they made before moving to the G4 I believe. Bought it in August 2001, and it's still works fine, though I haven't used it much in the past few years. OTOH, I bought a G5 iMac and it died right after the AppleCare Plan expired from a blown capacitor.

I keep the older iMac because it runs Classic, and I have a lot of files in Claris Draw that I still use. I recently bought an Airport card for it so I can hood it into my wireless network and get more use out of it . . . since I have a newer laptop I see no need to buy a new desktop at this time. I figure I ought to be able to get several more years out of it

[Hyndis]

Computers are still a new, rapidly developing technology and so things change very quickly. Eventually computers will get to the point that upgrades are few and far between, but the tech just isn't there yet.

I figure in another 50-100 years computers should be stabilized.

[roothorick]

I figure in another 50-100 years computers should be stabilized.

I dunno... I think computers are special, and will continue to evolve rapidly right up until the singularity, at which point a home desktop (or for that matter, a laptop or even a cellphone) will be utterly pointless.

But that's another discussion entirely.

[Fire_on_High]

*snip* Ugh. I'd downgrade to 98SE. It's THAT bad.

*snip*
2000 had serious compatibility problems with home-intended software from its era, bad enough that we had to go back to 98SE. Strictly a business OS, really. (98 was our primary OS from its release in, derp, 1998, until around 2003ish when XP started to really catch on.)

I had exactly the opposite experience. 98SE hated my hardware sooo hard it wasn't funny. ME was happy as a clam on the exact same machine.

Win2k? If heaven exists on earth, it'd look a lot like Win2k. I didn't run into any of the compatibility issues and I *gamed* on it til May of last year. Still ran WoW cheerfully, as well as everything else I asked of it. I'll always have a soft spot for that veritable tank of an OS. Nothing brought it down, and nothing fucked it up.

[Chromatix]

I still run Windows XP for the things that needs Windows - and those are mostly games. I upgraded from Win2K when it became impossible to obtain drivers for certain up-to-date hardware that would work.

I do expect computers to carry on working for a very long time - preferably until long after they are considered too slow for everyday use. You'll get the occasional failure along the way, usually in moving parts such as hard disks, fans, and poorly made input devices (see my keyboard thread), but the computer itself should easily last a decade unless you do something stupid and violent to it.