Hey nurses & medical people

[MoonCat]

Gotta question for ya. Not seeking medical advice here, just wanna know if this makes sense to you.

A healthcare worker told a co-worker of mine that there are three strains of C.diff going around. "One caused by antibiotics/you get it in the hospital, one in nursing homes, and one is being spread by people touching shopping carts that someone infected by C.diff has touched."

I told her that anti-biotics don't CAUSE it per se, but they can kill off the good bacteria in your body which could leave you susceptible to other illnesses. As for the rest...correct me, please--I mean that--if I'm wrong, but it seems unlikely that (a) there could be only one strain of C.diff that might be found on shopping cart handles, and (b) that anyone could possibly know for a fact that everybody who came down with C.diff caught it from touching an infected shopping cart!

And this came from a healthcare worker...

[Seshat]

Just did some very basic research on c. diff. (clostridium difficile)

The cause of a c. diff is always the same: c. diff spreads enough in the guts to make you sick.

Vectors of initial infection:
1. Touch a surface that has c. diff. on it. Touch your face, mouth, or something like a fork or food.
2. Someone else does the same.

Common places to get that initial infection do include hospitals and nursing homes, but c. diff is also very common in soil; and I'd be quite unsurprised to find it common on shopping cart handles - or anywhere else that small children touch.
C. diff resists being cleaned away with alcohol, so standard antibacterial cleaners that rely on alcohol as the primary antibacterial substance won't help.

Once you have c. diff in your system, it tends to stick around. Healthy intestinal symbiotes (bacteria, fungi, other stuff) will typically suppress it: basically like a healthy garden with lots of ground plants will keep weeds down.

Antibiotics can cause your healthy internal garden to become an unhealthy garden: and like any unhealthy garden, the weeds can spring up and dominate. Or a plant that's supposed to be there but only in a certain amount, can overgrow.
That's what causes you to get a c. diff infection, or thrush, or any other 'antibiotic caused' infection.


So your friend was partly right, and a lot unclear.

IF - and only if - you already have c. diff 'weeds' in the 'garden in your guts', then antibiotics can enable the weeds to have a chance to overrun your garden temporarily.

IF you are in a hospital or nursing home and you don't already have c. diff, you can get it from there. (If you already have it, and you get a sudden invasion of a lot of c. diff, I suspect but do not know that you can have an attack of it. Basically, another way of 'overrunning the garden'.)

As above, you can acquire a bunch of c. diff from shopping cart handles. Or soil. Probably from potting mix, too. Or a kindergarten or child care centre or pre school. Or a sick friend. Or a friend's kids. Or even the home of someone who is scrupulously clean but happens to be a carrier, and happens to use alcohol as their usual disinfectant.


I hope this info helps.

[fireheart]

This is like the same idiots that claim that the MMR vaccine "sheds" and that the version of measles "shed" from the vaccine is different to the actual measles.

Yeah...brain needs to go shut down now.

[Sapphire Silk]

Color me officially embarrassed by this "health care worker" (what is she, a CNA?)

There are a variety of sub-strains of many bacteria, including C diff, but any of them can be found anywhere. They are not limited to any particular location; they'll hitch a ride on anything or in anyone.

Not everyone carries C diff in their gut, but if you do it's not a problem unless something happens to your healthy bacteria . . . usually when you take a course of antibiotics.

[MoonCat]

See, my CW has already had C.diff....it took MONTHS to get rid of it, so she's understandably nervous about getting it again. Makes sense to me. Her immune system is already wonky from other causes.

I just couldn't see how one particular strain of it could be traced directly to shopping carts. I'm going to mention that alcohol-based anti-bac gels won't help much, though.

[Seshat]

If she's had it before, she still has it.

Or rather, she might be one of the microscopic percentage of the population who loses every single bacterium after the infection has run its course, AND doesn't reinfect herself by touching a surface she infected while she had it ... but naaaah. Not likely.

Rather than being extra paranoid, she should be extra relaxed: she never has to go through the initial infection again. Now all she has to worry about is stuff that damages her healthy bacteria/healthy 'guts garden'.

[Sapphire Silk]

I just couldn't see how one particular strain of it could be traced directly to shopping carts. I'm going to mention that alcohol-based anti-bac gels won't help much, though.

Alcohol based gels don't help at all. C diff is enteric precautions: soap and water is the only reliable method of handwashing.

This organism forms spores. It can hang around anywhere.

[MoonCat]

This organism forms spores. It can hang around anywhere.

Ewww. And to think they provide anti-bac wipes for the carts at a lot of stores. I bet it doesn't help but it makes people THINK it helps, so they relax.

Thanks everybody for your comments!

[Seshat]

Alcohol wipes DO kill many bacteria and fungi. Not all. And none (if my memory is correct) of the viruses.

Of course, whether or not viruses are alive is a point of debate among scientists of multiple persuasions, and one which is fated never to be resolved. (Because it depends on defining exactly where the boundary is between 'living thing' and 'molecule': it's a classification issue, ultimately.)