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  • #31
    Quoth Peppergirl View Post
    Guy was just an asshole, I guess.
    Yes. Yes he was.

    There is no consensus on what to do if the item is from a smoking home, but I'm of the opinion that if smoke bothers you enough to make a difference, and the listing doesn't say, then you need to ask the seller.

    That's good for anything in the listing: If it doesn't specifically detail the information you want, ask the seller.

    But, yeah. Forming a proper TOS policy and putting it all down in black and white is a good thing.

    ^-.-^
    Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

    Comment


    • #32
      Oh man, it gets better. Now this lunatic is not only promsing her lawyer will call me, she's going to try to appeal to PayPal to get my refund overturned (which has 0 chance of happening). This moonbat really thinks she's in the right and only "allowed" PayPal to refund me out of the goodness of her heart.

      I
      "You know, there are times when it's a source of personal pride not to be human." - Hobbes

      Comment


      • #33
        Quoth CancelMyService View Post
        Oh man, it gets better. Now this lunatic is not only promsing her lawyer will call me, she's going to try to appeal to PayPal to get my refund overturned (which has 0 chance of happening). This moonbat really thinks she's in the right and only "allowed" PayPal to refund me out of the goodness of her heart.

        I
        Oh, for chrissakes. Do you mind me asking how much money we're talking about here? If under $50.00 US, I'm going to hunt her down myself and her for you.

        Oh, and 'moonbat'. Yeah, I'm writing that one down. Thanks.
        "So, if you wanna put places like that outta business, just stop being so rock-chewingly stupid." ~ Raudf, 9/19/13

        Comment


        • #34
          Quoth Andara Bledin View Post
          That's good for anything in the listing: If it doesn't specifically detail the information you want, ask the seller.
          Exactly what I've made sure to do in every instance of buying things off eBay. I've always figured it was better to be a bit of a pain and ask detailed questions, than to receive the item, be disappointed, and know it was really my own fault.
          "In the end I was the mean girl/or somebody's in between girl"~Neko Case

          “You don't need many words if you already know what you're talking about.” ~William Stafford

          Comment


          • #35
            Sounds similiar to a seller I dealt with who happen to be from Ohio too.

            I don't have alot of experience with E-bay, but one day I was looking at items for sale from a seller in Ohio. The stuff she had interested me (historical items and books from all over the US, but mainly PA, OH, WV) so I bought one of the items. I got the item, but it took about 2 weeks. I left a positive feedback, she left me a positive feedback.

            A month later, another item she had interested me. I bought it and waited and waited...... This when I started to actually read her feedback (yes, I should have before) and noticed a pattern with this woman. Whenever someone left a negative comment (90% was because of slow or no delivery) she would respond back with a nasty and rude comment. Quite a few comments were retracted. She just seemed very immature.

            Afraid to make her upset, I sent her a nice email explaining that I have not received my item yet. She didn't respond, but within a week, I received it. It took
            4 1/2 weeks for a book to arrive from Ohio to western PA.

            Although I was a little peeved, I still left her a positive feedback, but was very vague. I said "Received item." She left me a generic feedback she leaves for everyone. I just wonder if the positives this lady is receiving is really positive. Maybe some are leaving positives because they are afraid of this woman.

            Comment


            • #36
              Wow, hotelnpa it seems like you dealt with this person too.

              What's funny is she's all "LOOK AT MY FEEDBACK, WHY WOULD I RIP YOU OFF??" when her feedback (which is probably 95% positive at least) has several "mutually withdrawn" feedbacks where she obviously bullied people into retracting negative feedback left on her.
              "You know, there are times when it's a source of personal pride not to be human." - Hobbes

              Comment


              • #37
                Ok after reading all of this, I must say I have learned a lot!

                Does a lot of this apply to Amazon as well (rules wise...you know what I mean)? I had a good run over there aside from a few idiots.

                One was over seas which specified up to 2 months on shipping. This person left me negative reviews and very intimidating emails because it wasn't there in the US terms of 2 to 4 weeks. I flat out told him the date I mailed it (two days after they ordered) and the expected receivable date. As I was tracking it, if it wasn't there by Amazons specified shipping time frame, I'd refund their money or get them a new one. You'd think I'd have insulted his mother. Guess what got there 4 days later. Ahem.

                But, it really turned me off of selling books online even though I was doing really good at it. I was probably a bit more honest than necessary but my record was immaculate with them til the two people who thought they could bully me. Seriously, how do you downgrade a book that was already at "Well used"? I mentioned all the dog tags, highlighting, notes in the margin, warn covers and broke spine. What more do you want?? And at .50 cents? Seriously!!
                Today was going to be just one of those days...you know, full of zombies.

                Comment


                • #38
                  A lot of ebay sellers try to act tough but that's mainly because they have computers to hide behind. Stick to your guns, they'll back down.

                  I had someone open a dispute on me once, I guess they felt because my feedback was low (less than 50) I wasn't too familiar with ebay or Paypal. Wrong.

                  I stood firm right through the dispute process until finally he dropped it claiming he "hadn't realized he already had the item"

                  Suuuuure. Jerk.
                  "If we refund your money, give you a free replacement and shoot the manager, then will you be happy?" - sign seen in a restaurant

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I have bought 1 item on Ebay. I had received it earlier than expected, so I left a positive review. I don't like how newer people, does not have a chance on Ebay. I like Amazon and the others a lot more.
                    Under The Moon Paranormal Research
                    San Joaquin Valley Paranormal Research

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Quoth Irving Patrick Freleigh View Post
                      If the buyer's obligation is done when they pay for an item, then the seller's obligation is done when they ship the item out. You and I both know that's untrue.
                      I am confused. Why is the buyer's obligation not finished after payment, or the seller's not finished when they ship? If the item is received in good time and in good condition, is the transaction not finished at that point?

                      Does this Feedback thing have something to do with it?

                      Please pardon my ignorance; I've never used eBay before so I'm a little lost here.

                      If you have to ask, it's probably better posted at www.fratching.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Quote:
                        Quoth greensinestro View Post
                        The buyer usually has to pay for their merchandise before it is even shipped out, so to me, the buyer has fulfilled their end of the bargain, leaving it up to the seller to fulfill theirs.

                        As a former ebay seller, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If the buyer's obligation is done when they pay for an item, then the seller's obligation is done when they ship the item out. You and I both know that's untrue.
                        ------------------------------------------------------

                        [I have bought and sold on eBay and have 100% positive, never left a negative, only neutral instead, for others]

                        I disagree. Let's assume the buyer is NOT a SC. What more do you expect the buyer to do for the seller once the item has been paid for, other than waiting and leaving appropriate feedback? The if-then logic situation shown above is not accurate, because if the item arrives broken or gets lost in the mail (assuming that there was insurance and DC), then the seller has additional obligations which do not require reciprocation in kind by the buyer. For example, I buy from you and it gets broken, you make a claim for insurance. I don't have to pay you anything else. All I owe you really is positive feedback for resolving the situation in a timely manner.

                        I'm going through this right now. I bought a cheap audio-video accessory from a seller out of Hong-Kong, and they just wrote back to me like this:

                        Sorry for late, we think there must be some error and item can't reach you by now. If you promise no negative/neutral feedback and no complaint/dispute against us, we agree to reship. You can write to me with your delivery address to indicate you consent to our reship ( no tracking number). If you can't wait long and need refund, let me know. ( we need a good rating )


                        ---------------------------------------

                        I think I'm going to ask for a refund and get one at Radio Shack. But my point is, how is it that MY obligation to this seller has NOT been fulfilled (so far)? (It is Item #150210332627 if anyone cares enough to check).
                        I was not hired to respond to those voices.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Quoth hotelnpa View Post
                          I just wonder if the positives this lady is receiving is really positive. Maybe some are leaving positives because they are afraid of this woman.
                          Probably a lot, which is silly, since buyer Feedback is meaningless except in how it relates to seller Feedback. Basically, Feedback left for buyers will tell you a lot about how a seller is. One of the many reasons the new Feedback changes are going to suck for buyers as much as sellers. But they'll be great for scammers.

                          Quoth CancelMyService View Post
                          What's funny is she's all "LOOK AT MY FEEDBACK, WHY WOULD I RIP YOU OFF??" when her feedback (which is probably 95% positive at least) has several "mutually withdrawn" feedbacks where she obviously bullied people into retracting negative feedback left on her.
                          95% is awful. Seriously. Generally speaking, if the person has a high enough number (say over 300), then anything less than 98% is a serious red flag. I usually use a baseline of 1% Negative and 1% Neutral for my purchases. Although I actually read comments to see if any recent Non-Positives were undeserved and check Feedback left for erratic responses.

                          Quoth Boozy View Post
                          Why is the buyer's obligation not finished after payment, or the seller's not finished when they ship? If the item is received in good time and in good condition, is the transaction not finished at that point?
                          Quoth poofy_puff View Post
                          I disagree. Let's assume the buyer is NOT a SC. What more do you expect the buyer to do for the seller once the item has been paid for, other than waiting and leaving appropriate feedback? The if-then logic situation shown above is not accurate, because if the item arrives broken or gets lost in the mail (assuming that there was insurance and DC), then the seller has additional obligations which do not require reciprocation in kind by the buyer. For example, I buy from you and it gets broken, you make a claim for insurance. I don't have to pay you anything else. All I owe you really is positive feedback for resolving the situation in a timely manner.

                          I'm going through this right now. I bought a cheap audio-video accessory from a seller out of Hong-Kong, and they just wrote back to me like this:

                          Sorry for late, we think there must be some error and item can't reach you by now. If you promise no negative/neutral feedback and no complaint/dispute against us, we agree to reship. You can write to me with your delivery address to indicate you consent to our reship ( no tracking number). If you can't wait long and need refund, let me know. ( we need a good rating )
                          First off, assuming that a buyer is not an SC is a dangerous proposition. Approximately 1% of all eBay transactions are scammers looking to make a quick buck. Some areas are more likely, with electronics being high-scam waters on both sides.

                          Never assume anything. Wait for confirmation and cover your ass in the meantime.

                          Second, if an item arrives broken, then, through no fault of the buyer, the buyer still has something they need to do. They need to contact the seller. So, even though the buyer is fine, they still have an obligation in the sale. Would you rather a buyer got their nice shiny "paid" sticker, then turned around and left you Negative Feedback because the post office crushed their package? It happens all the time.

                          If you want more examples of how it's not over for the buyer just because they paid, just ask. I've got dozens. Just because a person can use PayPal right after the sale doesn't mean they are any sort of reasonable individual, and Feedback should reflect the entire sale for both parties.

                          As for your Hong Kong guy, and ask for the refund. And you can even promise that you won't report him to eBay for it. After all, if you get the refund, there's no reason to report him.

                          I'm extra careful when dealing with overseas sellers because there are so many fly-by-night operations and you can't go after them when they're on a different continent. Hard enough when it's just a different country.

                          ^-.-^
                          Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I didn't mean ALWAYS assume EVERY customer is not an SC. Look at the original conversation, I was talking about a typical scenario, where the buyer is not an SC. I am not an SC Buyer, and I'd like to think there are others like myself out there.

                            As such, once the buyer has paid and seller receives payment, the ball is in the SELLER's court to fulfill the transaction. If there is something wrong, then the buyer should try to work it out before leaving negative feedback. Furthermore, leaving feedback is not REQUIRED by eBay. So it is not an "obligation" that the buyer "owes" the seller (and vice-versa).


                            The thing about it is, the seller would not send the item out until clearing payment, but once the item is paid for, there is nothing the buyer can do except WAIT for the seller to ship. At that point, the seller holds all the cards. So I am asking for these dozens of examples that you say you have. Not where a buyer has done the WRONG (SC) thing, but where the buyer still owes the seller something after paying for their item. I have been disappointed (as a buyer) by sellers, but never (as a seller) by any of my buyers. I have also taken advantage of eBay and PayPal's buyer protection facilities when necessary, and got refunded for the PURCHASES THAT WERE NEVER SENT AFTER I PAID. There was one time when I was re-selling some shoes I bought which didn't fit me (See? MY mistake not ordering the correct size, but the seller did everything right so I'm not being an SC), and one prospective buyer was asking all kinds of questions about "shipping costs". I was using the eBay shipping calculator where you enter your zip-code and the weight of the package, but at the time it was an external link to the Post Office web page, and they had just changed the system to reflect the distance traveled in the price. So this lady didn't want to hear of it. She accused me of scamming her (without even placing a bid) and said that it doesn't matter where the package is going, only the weight and size matters. After arguing a little and realizing that I didn't want to be involved in a transaction with this person, I simply sent her a link to the Post Office shipping calculator (which was in the auction listing already) and told her to please not bid on any of my auctions, ever.



                            I'm not worried about it; I have been using eBay just fine and it's like any other store where sometimes you have to go back and resolve an issue after you leave with your purchase. But you said not to assume anything, so why assume that everyone is an SC (or scammer) if only a small percentage really are? If you feel that way, just don't use eBay.

                            BTW, I did say I was going to ask for the refund from Mr. Hong-Kong. I fell off the turnip truck last week, not last night. If you read the entire message, you would see that. But thank you for the free advice.
                            Last edited by poofy_puff; 03-18-2008, 05:23 PM.
                            I was not hired to respond to those voices.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Quoth poofy_puff View Post
                              The thing about it is, the seller would not send the item out until clearing payment, but once the item is paid for, there is nothing the buyer can do except WAIT for the seller to ship.
                              Technically, other than cash or a wire transfer, there is no such thing as a "cleared payment." PayPal payments can be charged back both by PayPal and by a credit card provider, even if they were legitimate. Checks can be either just bad (bank will clear checks at 2 weeks, then reverse the check at the 6-week mark for fraud: it's happened to my company more than once) or have a stop payment on them. There is a high incidence of money order forgeries, and the number of really good cashiers check forgeries is going up.

                              All of the real power, for anyone who does their homework, is in the buyer's court. That the seller has the power is mostly an illusion. Mostly because most people are honest and don't understand/consider all of the crappy things that scammers and just plain sucky people pull on sellers pretty much every minute on eBay and elsewhere.

                              One thing that is often not understood is that just because payment has been submitted (and accepted by the bank) does not guarantee that the payment was actually valid. My company has had bad checks and money orders take as long as two months before being caught by the bank and charged back to us.

                              This type of scenario (which is unfortunately rather common) is exactly the sort of situation that is a good use of a Follow-up comment in Feedback as it currently stands. With the whole "checkmark for payment submitted" format, there is no option that I'm aware of to let future sellers know about fraudulent payments made and not caught until after the deadline set by eBay.


                              Quoth poofy_puff View Post
                              But you said not to assume anything, so why assume that everyone is an SC (or scammer) if only a small percentage really are? If you feel that way, just don't use eBay.
                              I don't assume anyone is a scammer. But I can't tell scammers from honest people, so covering my ass is just common sense.

                              Doing business anywhere will accrue a certain amount of loss due to theft and fraud. The intelligent thing to do is to be as informed as possible and do what is reasonable to prevent what you can.

                              ^-.-^
                              Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Quoth Andara Bledin View Post
                                I don't assume anyone is a scammer. But I can't tell scammers from honest people, so covering my ass is just common sense.

                                Doing business anywhere will accrue a certain amount of loss due to theft and fraud. The intelligent thing to do is to be as informed as possible and do what is reasonable to prevent what you can.
                                Excellent advice, be it on eBay or anyplace in the retail world.

                                And now for your friendly mod reminder to please keep this civil - no personal attacks, no name-calling, lest we turn out to be as bad as the SCs we're here to vent about. Thanks.
                                Not all who wander are lost.

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