Mr. Creepy comes back.

[Amina516]

(this ended up way longer than I intended, my apologies)

So, theres a certain patient who comes into the ER (unnecessarily) an average of 3 times a week. I'm pretty familiar with him, and hes kind of a pain in the buns so the staff will switch off on who cares for him when he comes in just to keep our sanity.

So, Friday morning, Im getting him ready to be discharged and he just becomes overly, overly flirtacious. Tells me im gorgeous, and just progresses into trying to pry as much information from me as possible: My last name (which is not on our work ID badges for safety reasons), my marital status, if I have kids, where i live etc. Needless to say, he didnt get the info except that I was married (I tried to deter him), but that didnt stop him from asking. I did tell him I wasnt allowed to answer his questions. He tells me if he was 20 years younger he knows he;d have a shot with me etc. :vomit: I proceeded to tell him that if he were 20 years younger, he'd still be too old for me.

Its not the first time something like this has happened, but I ignored it as best I could. I just sent him on his merry way. As hes rolling down the hall on his hoverround, he asks me if im in the next day. I give him a noncommittal answer. Hes asks me to write my name on his discharge papers and i decline, point him to the door and he leaves.

So, the next morning, approx 6am. I see his name pop up in our census. Im the next one down to receive a patient, however I speak with the charge nurse and explain that what had happened. I don't feel like pretending to be friendly anymore. Shes ok with me not taking him, and another nurse agrees to bring him back. Apparently, he was not happy with this. He was expecting to see me. And so persisted to ask for me. He couldn't remember my name, Thank God, but the description he was giving could only be of me, and so he asked. He asked the registration person, the triage nurse, the triage aide, he asked his ER nurse, he asked the other registration person. All had told him I wasn't here.

In reality, the ER frowns on people coming and asking for specific personnel or doctors. So the answer to that question is always, "I cant say", "im not sure" or just plain old "No". The charge nurse became extremely upset when he persisted in asking for me, even when he was told I wasn't there. She calls security.

Security goes in and tells him its against the rules to ask for specific staff. Mr. Creepy gets pissed. He tells them I instructed him to ask for me . After security leaves, he asks the girl who drew his blood to send me in and that he knew that the staff was just hiding me from him.

Needless to say, I never entered and he was instructed again that i wasn't there. From where he was, there was absolutely no way he would have seen me and hes a pretty bad walker, so he has the hoverround. Id hear him coming from a mile away.

I left that morning before he was discharged, so I wasnt concerned he'd somehow find me and follow me home, Now I just have to avoid him for a while. The nurse manager was there and advised me I could call the city police and attempt to file a PFA. Im not sure how useful thatd be for me, considering hes there all the time. I can just refuse to care for him for a bit til he gets over himself.

Im not worried that he'll show up outside my house or anything, but its a bit disconcerting that I am now the focus of his attention.

ETA: I always have mace on me at all times since I walk home from work, as im not too far.

[BlaqueKatt]

The nurse manager was there and advised me I could call the city police and attempt to file a PFA. Im not sure how useful thatd be for me, considering hes there all the time.

Do it anyway, if for no other reason to have a paper trail. I don't know the laws in your state, but in mine stalking isn't considered a criminal act unless the victim can prove that the stalker was made aware that their attention was upsetting to to the victim.

[Pixilated]

This is a good point. Given that he's already making a PITA of himself, a paper trail would be a good thing just in case it gets to the point where you do need something more drastic done.

[Grendus]

On the bright side, if he can't walk he's probably not too much of a physical threat. Google suggests that the Hoveround tops out at 7mph for the heavy duty, so even a brisk jog would outpace him. Definitely document the incident, and strongly consider the PFA, if only to legally document the incident. Sounds like you handled it well though.

[Amina516]

Im not filing a PFA. Its not enforceable. I cant stop him from coming to the ER, hes an elderly guy whos has genuine health issues. I dont feel physically threatened. It wouldnt make any sense. Him asking incessantly for me would not constitute abuse, and the PFA would not be approved. In the state of PA, PFAs are granted for domestic violence. This is not there, nor will it ever be. Its all verbal, and that can be handled internally and by me. I ignore him. Believe me, if there was a threat to me or my family, Id be the first to take care of it. But this is not it.

[KatherineB]

Can you at least get a written report from your supervisor in the hospital, just so you have something to produce should be try to claim negligence at the hospital or something?

[Amina516]

Can you at least get a written report from your supervisor in the hospital, just so you have something to produce should be try to claim negligence at the hospital or something?

That has been well documented on the hospitals part. Anytime security responds to something, they write a Report as do the nurse managers and charge nurses. I'm not worried about him coming after me outside of work. But I do appreciate the concern from you guys.

[Hanzoku]

I think our concern was also that he didn't make your work harder then it needed to be by filing false complaints against you. A well documented history of harassment at the hospital will help if he does try to 'punish' you for 'rejecting' his advances.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Im not filing a PFA. Its not enforceable. I cant stop him from coming to the ER, hes an elderly guy whos has genuine health issues.

While you can't stop him from coming to the ER, the PFA might be enforceable if it's written in such a way that he is forbidden from contacting you while he is there.

You wouldn't be the only person harassed in a hospital. There has to be something the law can do to deal with this problem.

Also, that hoveraround isn't good off-road. If he comes after you just head into the soft ground and watch him bog down. Then point, laugh, and walk away.

Worst case scenario Pepper Spray lends a lot of strength to the "I'm really not in the mood to be romantic with you" statements.

[Seshat]

If it is possible to file a paper trail with the police that states that his advances are unwelcome and he's been so informed, please do so. Even if it's not the equivalent of what's called a 'restraining order' in Australia.

Having the paper trail in place in the hospital is an excellent thing, however, and if possible, I'd keep a copy personally. It might not be possible due to privacy laws (since they're essentially medical documents); but you may be able to get your charge nurse and security to write copies you can keep with the medical info elided.

When-not-if he manages to catch you at the hospital - he will - move into a place where there are witnesses. Fellow staff. Inform him that his advances are both inappropriate and unwelcome, and you insist that he stop.
Then document that you've told him, and ask at least two of the witnesses to sign it. Put a timestamp on the document - that's important.

If he continues, consult the police and legal aid. Not just for your sake, but for the sake of the hypothetical sixteen year old kid who lives down the street from him.

[PepperElf]

i'm just wondering now if... did he come back for a legit reason or just as an excuse to try to chat you up again?

Having the paper trail in place in the hospital is an excellent thing, however, and if possible, I'd keep a copy personally. It might not be possible due to privacy laws (since they're essentially medical documents); but you may be able to get your charge nurse and security to write copies you can keep with the medical info elided.

When-not-if he manages to catch you at the hospital - he will - move into a place where there are witnesses. Fellow staff. Inform him that his advances are both inappropriate and unwelcome, and you insist that he stop.
Then document that you've told him, and ask at least two of the witnesses to sign it. Put a timestamp on the document - that's important.

Hospital privacy laws - out of curiosity would that really be a violation to have a copy on hand? I mean as long as the document only contains the information that the patient has been informed to leave Amina516 alone? Would it be OK if any other sensitive or medical data was blacked out?

although of course, ask the hospital first cos it's their ass that will be in the sling if it's not legal.

[Sapphire Silk]

That has been well documented on the hospitals part. Anytime security responds to something, they write a Report as do the nurse managers and charge nurses. I'm not worried about him coming after me outside of work. But I do appreciate the concern from you guys.

I hope you wrote an incident report as well. The paper trail should probably start with you so Risk Management understands what this guy is putting you through.

While you can't stop him from coming to the ER, the PFA might be enforceable if it's written in such a way that he is forbidden from contacting you while he is there.

You wouldn't be the only person harassed in a hospital. There has to be something the law can do to deal with this problem.

A PFA would be very difficult to enforce because of EMTALA. The ER has to see him if he says he has a medical emergency, and the doc doesn't get to decide he's not having an emergency until AFTER he's been examined.

What Amina CAN do is put the staff on notice of this guy's behavior: the charge nurse should never, ever assign her to be his primary nurse, and NO female nurse should see this guy alone. In fact, if there are male nurses in the department, they'd be my first choice of who to assign if I were the charge (I've had this situation come up before, and this is what I've done; it works).

The police will regard it as a civil matter (sexual harassment) until he actually touches a female in an unwelcome way. Cops really don't like to deal with this kind of crap; it takes a lot for them to get involved, especially if the patient is disabled and not a "threat" in their eyes.

Hospital privacy laws - out of curiosity would that really be a violation to have a copy on hand? I mean as long as the document only contains the information that the patient has been informed to leave Amina516 alone? Would it be OK if any other sensitive or medical data was blacked out?

The kind of reports Amina is talking about are incident reports. They are not part of the permanent medical record. They go to Risk Management (ie Legal). The Risk Managers then look to see what can be done to mitigate legal risks to the hospital and to the staff. So it wouldn't be a HIPAA violation for Amina to keep a copy.

I have a copy of every incident report I've ever written. I didn't ask permission; I'm sure I would have been told no because my copies could be subpoenaed in case of a lawsuit (incident reports are normally protected material). I keep the copy to help me remember details if asked later, and also in case it gets "lost." I've never told anyone about them, and they're an ace in the hole in case I need them (I never have).

[Amina516]

I meant to update this sooner, but i really suck at this kind of thing.

So, he has since been aback about 5 times. Miraculously, I have not been there for any of those times though I hear about it afterwards b/c he continues to ask for me. The second to last time he told someone to tell me he was going to start going to another hospital aout 45 minutes away. But then he was back the next week...asking for me.

Risk management, my managers and the charges and security are all aware of this. I wont take him again as a patient and if I hear his hover round making its way down the hall, God willing, Ill have time to hide.

[PepperElf]

can you have someone lie to him and say that you transferred to the hospital 45 minutes away?

[Amina516]

Everyone has now been informed to tell him i now work at the smaller ER across the city. He can probably make it there on the hoverround.