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  • Tenant from Hell Question/Help **WARNING VERY VERY LONG!!!**

    Hey all - I am mostly a lurker although I do make an occasional post. I have been scouring the internet for assistance and asked a few friends for their input - but I would really REALLY appreciate any advice/input etc you could give me on a matter.


    I will give you the short story - for those who don't want to even attempt my insane rant about crazy boy. Basically - do I need to have a legal reason to get rid of this tenant from hell? He's not on any bills or on the lease for the house. The main problem is we never signed anything agreeing to the terms of his tenancy. He's becoming a nightmare and I want him out. It's actually reaching a point where it is putting a strain on my marriage. He's also 19. And a pain in my backside.

    Now - the long drawn out details:

    This is LONG REALLY LONG - but it explains the progress in behavior etc over a year.

    Last year was a bit rough on the pocket book. We moved to a bigger house (still renting but bigger than our tiny apartment) I was offered the opportunity of a lifetime but it meant a paycut. Thankfully hubby was supportive and said go for it. Of course, then hubby got downsized. Brill.

    So anyway - we took in a lodger. He's a friend of a friend's grandson. He was coming into the big city for college and his parents didn't like the idea of him living downtown by himself at 18, and didnt' think it was safe. So this friend suggested our house. We needed the money and we met with the kid and his family and everything seemed pretty good so we said "Sure! Stay for the school year"

    *mistake 1 - we didn't get anything in writing...*


    Flash forward a few months. He's now holding band practices in our basement/his room. This is a massive distraction for me as I work from home. We deal.

    Then he starts off asking if his friend (that is standing right behind him) can stay for supper. This is 6 pm - supper is nearly ready. Sure fine.

    The next week another friend shows up at supper time and now lodger is TELLING us - "x is staying for supper" umm... no. But too late. They manage to serve themselves before I am out of the upstairs office.

    This becomes a regular occurrence. To the point where lodger leaves the house at 5:55 to pick up his friend from the bus stop to bring him in for dinner. We say no- but at the same time, if I am working in my office (phone calls come in etc) I can't keep an eye on kitchen and see that they DON'T serve up the food.

    The kicker was the night I went without because boy's friend took my dinner then had the AUDACITY to complain about the side dish. "I don't really like cooked carrots"

    Part of his rent pays for groceries - but it doesn't pay to feed all the other 18 year old kids from his college.

    He now complains to his parents that we don't provide food for him. We do- but we don't provide stuff that's "instant" (tv dinners, frozen pizza etc) nor do we keep biscuits, popcorn, chips, pop etc. there's plenty of meat, cheese, veggies, fruit, pasta etc. Nowhere did it say we are to provide junk for this kid and his friends.

    He also doesn't keep up his end in the housework department. Always quick to eat the food but disappears when it is time to wash up ("oh I can't I have to skype with my family") We won't touch the mainfloor bathroom because that is his responsibility and I doubt it has been cleaned since Christmas (when I cleaned it before hosting Christmas dinner for the family)

    If I ask him to wash the dishes he will tell me" You're home all day, you do them" I WORK all day. My office just happens to be at home.

    We never know when he will be home anymore. He was gone for 3 weeks and then just showed up Sunday night.

    Hubby doesn't have a problem with him. But that's because the kid sometimes listens to him. me, he just dismisses. That and the fact that hubby is never home so he doesn't see or hear the behavior.

    I have been on the phone with clients in my office on the 3rd floor and they have asked me if my cell phone was ringing or if the radio was on because kid and his friend are playing music in the basement. It is THAT loud.

    Hubby and I have been fighting about it as well. I actually went and stayed with my parents for 2 weeks this summer because I was so unhappy in the house. When I told hubby I wanted the kid out, he basically said if kid goes, he may as well go as well, since he would rather live downtown and closer to his new work rather than an hour away via subway and bus. Even though he knows I hate the downtown and that's why we agreed to this house... ugh.

    Anyway - if you read this far. Bless you. I tried editing it several times - it was SO MUCH longer! This kid just really gets to me.

    I just wonder if there is a way to get rid of him. I mean, a legal and nice way to get rid of him without worrying about retribution or legal action etc.

    Plus I needed to get this off my chest.

  • #2
    I am not a lwayer, but the fact you have nothing in writing could work in your favor as much as it could hurt you. For example, since you have no written agreement and therefore no lease term it could be treated as a month to month lease. Check your local laws, possibly consult a lawyer since you orally agreed that he could stay for the school year.

    In any case some states require 30 day notice before a lease can be terminated, others don't. That is another thing you will want to look into. Since you have no written agreement most states will default to basic tennant/land lord rights. Find out what those are in your state. You may be able to kick him out on his ass now if you want, you may not.

    You might try googling "free legal advice (your state here)." There are also quite a few forums and sites dedicated to answering questions just like this.

    Also, as callous as it is to say so, don't let feelings of fairness/remorse get in the way of doing what you want if you are legally entitled to do so. AKA: Don't worry about what he will do for living arrangements if you kick him out, its not your problem. Also, if it does go badly you may want to prepare to change your locks.
    Last edited by Chanlin; 08-23-2012, 12:41 AM. Reason: added an afterthought

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with doing research about what local laws. That will help you a lot.

      Is he paying the rent or is it his parents? Did the original agreement include his parents or did you only deal with him? Have you spoken with his parents if they are the ones who pay or were there for the agreement?

      Have you had a sit down with him to reexplain all the rules? People have introduced a written agreement at that time that outlines everything: payment, chores, rules about visitors, etc. and have the person sign.

      Also, is renting that room in your house legal? Sometimes there are specific laws that govern what can be rented.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would lock up the food. Or not start cooking until you are done working and can have control over the kitchen.

        Have you both sat down with this kid and given him house rules?

        I would go online and check tenancy laws in my state, and then once I was armed with them, I'd have a come to Deity meeting with the tenant with written rules that he must sign (what food is included, what cleaning is expected, rules about dinner guests, and no more band practice in the house). If he won't tow the line, out he goes with whatever proper notice needs to be given.

        And yes, if it goes badly, change the locks.

        Also, can no one talk to his parents/grandparents about him?
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not even sure about the universe.
        --attributed to Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Chanlin's advice list of suggestions is pretty much right on the money. Landlord/Tenant laws vary from state to state, but without a written contract, you most likely need to give 30 days notice. A 60-day notice is almost certainly generous enough for any state.

          And ALWAYS be prepared to change locks after a change of tenants, particularly if the parting is less than perfectly pleasant. Otherwise, it becomes a potential vulnerability for burglary. Protect yourself first. Protect others' sensibilities second, only after you've protected yourself.

          Comment


          • #6
            First off; consult an expert. Even if it costs money, it'll probably be worth it.

            Band practice. If it's not specifically for school, it's forbidden. You don't need a reason beyond the fact that it's your house.

            Guests at dinner. If permission is not granted ahead of time, no guests after 5pm. You shouldn't need a reason beyond the fact that it's your house and your food.

            Skype with Family instead of chores. Get on Skype, yourself, and talk to that family about how he's using them as an excuse to not do any cleaning.

            Husband doesn't see it. Do some recording. Or start a conference call with hubby and let him hear how you get treated when he's not there.

            Disappearing without notification. If he's gone for more than 2 days, call up his family and let them know you're worried about him because he hasn't been home in days and he didn't say he was going anywhere.

            But, as others have said, if he refuses to act like a reasonable adult tenant, then give him the legally required notice in your locale and kick him to the curb. You're those people's friends, not their son's servants.

            ^-.-^
            Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

            Comment


            • #7
              Quoth fumblebee View Post
              Hubby and I have been fighting about it as well. I actually went and stayed with my parents for 2 weeks this summer because I was so unhappy in the house. When I told hubby I wanted the kid out, he basically said if kid goes, he may as well go as well, since he would rather live downtown and closer to his new work rather than an hour away via subway and bus. Even though he knows I hate the downtown and that's why we agreed to this house... ugh.
              This particular bit has been missed by everybody else, and I think it might be more important than the rest.

              I do not understand the logic being employed by hubby. Is he just in that house for this kid? If not, then what difference does it make if the kid leaves?

              I think that without answering that, anything else that can be suggested might well do more harm than good.

              Comment


              • #8
                I see a major problem being that your husband is not supporting you on this. How can you possibly impose rules on the tenant when your husband won't back you on any of it? You need to talk to your husband, and you two need to present a united front to this asstard you have living in your house.

                Now, were it me, I would corner the little shit and tell him in no uncertain terms that it's time for him to GO. This may or may no be legal, but do you really think a 19 year old is going to be smart enough to know the local laws, or have the resources to hire a lawyer? I don't.

                Now, if you are not comfortable doing the above, and can't afford to buy me a plane ticket so I can come up there and do it for you--and I WOULD--you need to get with your husband, agree to a few things, and then corner this little freeloader and present him with The Rules of the House:

                Band Practice is not allowed. The band wants to practice somewhere? Great. Just not at your house.

                If he wants to continue eating dinner that YOU prepare, he needs to stop inviting other people over to eat food that YOU prepare. His rent and grocery money doesn't cover his freeloading friends. If he wants snacks like chips and shit, he should fucking buy them himself with his own damn money.

                Clean the fucking bathroom. NOW.

                Any other rules you may decide are appropriate.

                If Fucktard doesn't like or accept these rules, that is fine too. It just means he is going to have to find another place to live. Because EVERY place of residence has rules, and if you don't follow them, you can be removed. For example, if my roommates and I hang a giant "FUCK FLORIDA" flag from our balcony, our landlord will almost certainly tell us (not ask us) to take it down. If we refuse, well, they will begin proceedings to evict us.

                To sum up: your house, your rules. He can either live with them or get the fuck out.

                But again, your husband really needs to get on board with you on this one.

                "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
                Still A Customer."

                Comment


                • #9
                  OK, I just skimmed most of the posts, but without an actual lease, the most you probably have to give is 30 days notice (certified mail is the best way to go because then you get proof that he received it). Your local library should have resources on landlord/tenant law for your state, and you could also check with the local courthouse or municipal building, and many lawyers will even give you some basic advice like that on the phone for free.

                  Now, were it me, I would corner the little shit and tell him in no uncertain terms that it's time for him to GO. This may or may no be legal, but do you really think a 19 year old is going to be smart enough to know the local laws, or have the resources to hire a lawyer? I don't.
                  Aside from the above quoted bit, I second everything Jester said. I would make sure you know what the law is on how much notice you need to give him; he may not have the resources but his parents might, and well, consider the fact that someone raised him to be like this... You don't need a reason to kick him out, though, unless you are actually attempting to break a lease (in which case you would simply have to stick it out until the term ends unless you have a concrete cause for eviction). But there is no lease so that wouldn't apply. As someone said above, the law probably treats this situation as a month to month agreement and most likely you would have to give him that month to find a new place.

                  As long as he is in the house (and if you are at all interested in giving him the chance to clean up his act) you need to sit hubby down and lay down the law (and seriously, what pedersen said...wtf?), then the two of you need to sit the kid down and set out the rules, and tell him in no uncertain terms that if he wants to stay, he grows up and follows them.
                  I don't go in for ancient wisdom
                  I don't believe just 'cause ideas are tenacious
                  It means that they're worthy - Tim Minchin, "White Wine in the Sun"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It struck me that it sure sounds like you have an instant 18 year old son. He seems to be treating you two the same way he probably treats his parents.

                    I agree with the other legal advice given here. Time to show him you're not his mommy and he needs to grow his ass up.
                    "If you pray very hard, you can become a cat person." -Angela, "The Office"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with all the other advice as well. Jester raised an extremely important point in that you need to get your husband onboard and since he doesn't appear to be, find out why not ... isn't he exposed to this nonsense as well? Surely he doesn't approve of the kid's behaviour?

                      IF you wanted to give the kid one more chance (which I don't think you do) you could then think about demanding he sign a written agreement with all the rules spelled out. But what you're asking is common sense and common courtesy and since he appears to have neither (although he certainly should at his age), he is going to have to learn it the hard way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am going to slightly disagree with Pixilated on the last point.

                        Since there is no written lease, there is really no need to have the rules written down and signed. Your house, your rules. Simple as that.

                        I wonder whether his parents would appreciate his behavior, or if that is the way he treats them. It could go either way, them coming down like a sledgehammer on him for acting like that, or them asking, "What's the big deal?" or being angry that someone could question their special little angel. Hard to say, really.

                        Still say you should kick the littler fucker out, though.

                        "The Customer Is Always Right...But The Bartender Decides Who Is
                        Still A Customer."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Agreed with most.

                          You will absolutely need to get Mr. fumblebee on the same page with you.

                          Consider audio or videotaping what happens when hubs is away. Also photography of the basement and bathroom in question. IANAL, but most jurisdictions require a 24-hour notice for such "inspections."

                          Professional legal advice is likely to be cost-effective compared with possible consequences.

                          Get rid of this brat and from now on: ALL LEASES ARE IN WRITING!!!
                          I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my keister!

                          Who is John Galt?
                          -Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            honestly you probably have a lot of options of what to do with him, your biggest issue is getting your husband on board, you know him better than anyone else. The moving threat may have been him being angry at an arguement. Especially if it came out of nowhere, now you've been dealing with the kid for a while but to your husband this may have come from nowhere and being blindsided puts my back up real quick.

                            you need to sit down and talk to your husband calmly and explain that you find the behaviour unacceptable.

                            Now as to the kid, tell him A rent is now 50 bucks cheaper and you are responible for your own food, if he wants to feed his friends he pays for it. Next time the band practices walk into the room and tell them practice is over if you hear them again you are having the police escort the friends out. You are not this kids parent but unfortunately it looks like you may have to act like it for a little while.
                            Interviewer: What is your greatest weakness?
                            Me: I expect competence from my coworkers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The problem seems to be that the lines between "tenant" and "child" are very blurred.

                              As a tenant he does have rights of course, and you seem to be OK in the idea that his rent covers what he eats from your home.


                              What you may want to consider doing is setting up a written agreement on what is and isn't expected - and review the local laws.

                              As a tenant, he would have a right to have guests over, up to a decent hour. Technically he could even have overnight guests since he is a tenant, but it may be too soon for you to consider. (And if you do consider it, those guests could only stay X amount of days per month - remember of course to check the laws - before they need to start paying rent).

                              You can't entirely ban guests because... well that falls under parenting and he's not your child.

                              However guests over for dinner - not without asking you first. He's not paying for his friend to eat, just himself. So he needs to ask. If he tries to force you, then explain that you will have to increase his rent if he wants to feed his friends on a regular basis.


                              As for complaining about liking the food, or not having the junk food he wants... That's really a gray area. As you said he does pay for groceries. He's a tenant, not your child.


                              You may find a compromise works... In which some of his rent covers overall groceries - such as dinner, but that he can take a portion of the rent and buy his own groceries with it. That means he'll be able to have side dishes he likes and the junk food too.

                              Perhaps a small investment into a mini-fridge for his items.

                              Because if it's bad food... remember, he's your tenant. If he wants to stay as a tenant it's his own responsibility to make healthy choices for his own food. If he choses to be a child... that's his own problem.

                              If his mommy and daddy complain, fuck it just hang up on them. You don't owe them any explanation. He's THEIR son but YOUR tenant.


                              the same with chores. Since this is a shared home there should be a rotation. If he refuses to do it... perhaps it's time to discuss the options.



                              But first of course, communicate with your husband. He needs to understand what problems you are having. You may even want to set up a video surveillance in the common areas (no area where there's an "expectation of privacy") to show how the tenant acts when you ask him to do anything.

                              Or if worse comes to worse - not just a lawyer for the tenant, but counseling to find out what the options are for dealing with both males.

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