Was this sucky?

[Lachrymose]

What's an octaganarian?

Someone who is in their 80s. (although it's actually octogenarian )

[Lace Neil Singer]

Speaking as a former Convenience Store clerk I have to say that, given there's no "I.D. Everyone" policy at the store in question, I see nothing wrong with LNS getting someone who works there to vouch for her, as that's all that was needed. The fact that the person was a manager doesn't even really enter the question.

I'd basically known him for ages as a friend of my brother, rather than as the manager of the shop. XD In any case, it shows that sometimes a customer might actually know a manager rather than just blowing hot air.

There was a story about a <supermarket> who refused an octaganarian because they had no ID, they had recently failed their last Test Purchase operation and were on a final written warning so they ID *everyone*.

With #1 The store was clerly in breach of the law so no such at all!

With #2 Seeing as you did know the chap and you were over age, no suck!

^^

Do you have a news link for that story? Would be interesting to read; I expect the reason they had a "card everyone" policy was cuz of the written warning.

[crazylegs]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7003325.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...buy-drink.html

Top one is a chap 72, bottom one chap well into his 80s.

Neither however are the story I can think of where the store is on it's written warning however.

[flybye023]

The only thing I have to say is be sure that you actually do know the store policy and actually are in the right when you ask to escalate. I find that explaining to the employee "I want x because I understand your policy to be abc" and, if they refuse, then ask for a manager/supervisor to verify. Treat it as a misunderstanding, not a demand.

I think the reason why people here get so up in arms over it is because with the customers we most often have to deal with the equation is more:

I didn't get what I think I deserve, therefore the employee is a stupid idiot/obstructive/mean...GET ME A SUPERVISOR!!!eleventy!!

I know that while working as a cashier the people who said "are you sure?" got a lot further that the ones who said "I demand you give me X."

[Ironclad Alibi]

There was a story about a <supermarket> who refused an octaganarian because they had no ID, they had recently failed their last Test Purchase operation and were on a final written warning so they ID *everyone*.

Recently I was carded at my local Safeway when buying beer. The clerk said they had goofed and had to card everyone. I am retired and have gray hair. It was the first time I had ever been carded when buying alcohol.

[Lace Neil Singer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/7003325.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...buy-drink.html

Top one is a chap 72, bottom one chap well into his 80s.

Neither however are the story I can think of where the store is on it's written warning however.

The top one mentioned a fine; then again, that could be a warning too, I don't know. Just seems a bit extreme; the oldest person I ever carded was 35... she laughed her head off and said she was going home to tell her husband.

[BlaqueKatt]

The boy behind the counter refused to serve me cigarettes, saying that I had to show ID.

Here in Wisconsin once you're asked for ID the sale cannot legally be processed without it-it wouldn't matter if the president of the United states "vouched" for you.

[Can I Help Your A$$?]

I think it's kind of funny, this policy of "looking underage." I mean, how people look can vary wildly.

Which kind of brings in the question the whole rationality of carding anyway. I mean, what does it mean to be 17 that's so different from, say, one day older? But I'm one of those freaks who thinks that way, so don't pay attention to me.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Here in Wisconsin once you're asked for ID the sale cannot legally be processed without it-it wouldn't matter if the president of the United states "vouched" for you.

I have already stated where I live; it's not the policy over here, doesn't matter what it is where you are so no need to sound snippy.

Which kind of brings in the question the whole rationality of carding anyway. I mean, what does it mean to be 17 that's so different from, say, one day older? But I'm one of those freaks who thinks that way, so don't pay attention to me.

I think the same; after all, I was smoking and drinking beer at age 14 and not abusing either. However, it's the law and I rather like my job, so the carding carries on.

[AriRashkae]

One of our local grocery stores cannot process an alcohol sale without ID/birthdate. The computer will not allow it.

However, the cashiers do not demand ID from people over a certain (obviously legal) age appearance. Just telling them a legal B-day is enough.

I just always pull my ID when I buy alcohol because my perceived age can vary wildly.

[tamezin]

Example 2.

I went to buy cigarettes one fine day during the week in a local store, since changed hands. The boy behind the counter refused to serve me cigarettes, saying that I had to show ID. I found this incomprehensible, as at the time I was 25 and certainly did not look 15. The manager of the store at the time was someone I knew, cuz he was a friend of my older brother, so I asked to see him. It turned out that the boy was new and had misunderstood the IDing process; the manager gently told him that he was to ask for ID only if a customer looked underage. I got my cigarettes.

.

First scenario no, not sucky, but second scenario, I disagree. I don't care if you look eighty, if you are purchasing an age restricted substance you should always be prepared to show ID period. I can't believe the manager didn't back the kid up. You should not have gotten your smokes. Almost every store where I live, even if they know you personally, once they ask for ID and you fail to provide, it is illegal for them to sell to you.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Once more, I already explained the policy where I live, ie England. The kid was in the wrong; I politely pointed that out. Just how is that sucky? Once more, the knee jerk reaction that every single person who asks for a manager is automatically in the wrong.

[katie kaboom]

You should not have gotten your smokes. Almost every store where I live, even if they know you personally, once they ask for ID and you fail to provide, it is illegal for them to sell to you.

Then the laws need to be changed, because that makes absolutely no sense. Bottom line is, she's old enough to legally buy smokes, therefore yes she should have gotten them...and she did get them. Sometimes laws are taken way too far. No one relies on common sense anymore.

[aurelemsrealm]

I hate the whole mess of dealing with age-restricted sales (I'm talking here in the U.S.). On the one hand, if you're old enough to purchase an age-restricted item, you should be old enough to realize that an ID may be necessary to make the purchase. Furthermore, if you are of age, then you should have the maturity to understand and respect the law regarding the purchase. In short, come prepared, or don't come at all.

I know I certainly get sick of dealing with people who don't have their ID, don't want to show their ID, or whine and cry about the law being ridiculous. It's the law, all other considerations are irrelevant. No ID, no sale, end of discussion. I always carry my ID, and don't consider it a big deal if I'm carded. I know I'm of age, and my ID will prove that. I show my ID, pay for my purchase, and go on my merry way to enjoy my goodies.

[martin]

Disclaimer: I'm from the US so I could be completely wrong.

1. The Children and Young Persons (Sale of Tobacco etc.) Order 2007
2. A Trading Standards guide (PDF)

I could be wrong but from reading these the only thing is you can't sell to people under 18 as of October 2007.

[1]It is illegal to sell tobacco products to anyone under the age of 18.
[2]It is an offence to sell tobacco products (which includes cigarette papers), to persons under the age of 18, even from a vending machine on your premises. The maximum fine is £2500.
[2]Staff can be prosecuted for selling as well as the owner of the business and [Staff] should be aware of this.

What is and isn't a defence, and a suggested policy.

[2]You cannot claim in your defence that the person buying tobacco products 'looked' over 18. If they are in fact under 18 an offence is committed.

[2]It is a defence if you can show you took 'all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence' to avoid committing an offence.

[2]Most businesses adopt a policy of 'No ID, No Sale'. If a person looks under 21 ask them to produce ID to prove that they are 18. You will need to provide guidance on what proof of age cards are acceptable, and how to check them.

It appears that how stores decide to not sell to people under 18 is up to them. They can decide to card everyone, or people that look 21 or younger, or no one. If a clerk asks for ID but the person refuses it appears that there is no law that says the clerk can't complete the sale. However the clerk that completes the sale has definitely not taken 'all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence' to avoid committing an offence.

I worked in a convenience store in the US that sold alcohol and most of the time we didn't card people that were obviously of age. The only time we would do zero exceptions, card everyone, I don't care that you are my mother, is when the Liquor control agents would come in buy a hot dog and soda and stand 10 ft in front of the counter. Eating their hot dog and waiting for us to screw up so they could fine the store and the clerk. They would usually stand there for 1/2 an hour to an hour. Not fun at all.