Emergency Policies?

[wolfie]

I worked at one office, only rule I recall in case of the fire alarm going off was that if you had one of those diskette boxes of company files on your desk, you were required to grab it and take it with you as you left

In one office job, the evacuation route from my desk to the stairwell went past the shelf where the backup tapes were kept. Nothing official, but when the alarm went off, I'd grab the weekly tape off the shelf as I was going past (we didn't do off-site backups).

[Geek King]

When I was in the printing plant, the floor rule was empty one extinguisher*, then run and let the pros get there. If it was the warehouse (with tons of dense rolls of paper), the rule was get out as fast as possible. Even the fire department was on "let it burn" if the warehouse ever caught, because you couldn't fight the kind of fire that would be going in under a minute. We were all warned that the fire department would not be coming in after anyone in the warehouse. One of the few work places I've been where everyone studiously obeyed the smoking rules to the letter.

*Everyone there got extinguisher training, with Leads getting training on the big, rolling 40 gallon extiguishers kept next to every press line. Training was professionally taught, with a "live fire" exercise that everyone had to complete.

[Shalom]

If it was the warehouse (with tons of dense rolls of paper), the rule was get out as fast as possible. Even the fire department was on "let it burn" if the warehouse ever caught, because you couldn't fight the kind of fire that would be going in under a minute.

I would think that a dense roll of paper would burn like a log (i.e. slowly) if it was rolled tight enough. Am I wrong about this?

[crazylegs]

I would think that a dense roll of paper would burn like a log (i.e. slowly) if it was rolled tight enough. Am I wrong about this?

Paper mills also contain a lot of paper dust - which is rather more excitable than plain paper...

[auntiem]

Though ill be the first to admit, that a fire in an industrial mill, is way different than being way up in a skyscraper. Plus i guess working in that kind of environment changes your "fight or flight" parameters a bit. Just to be clear im more or less seeing if my companies expectations are really that abnormal, or if theres other fields where its a "fight for your job" type deal.

It is different, but what you are describing as company policy is wrong - as in oh.hell.no wrong IMO. If they expect you to fight fires you should all be trained in doing so - with a regular re-training. You should only be expected to run the line in order to shut it down properly if it is safe to do so then get the F out. Is your mill non-union? If it is union, they should be pitching a major fit about this.
Please tell me you don't have a pulp side because if the company is this lax on fire safety I'd hate to think what kind of OSHA violations they are commiting on the pulp side.
When our mill was running I didn't work there but worked near it and those places even had emergency plans in case the mill had a problem (chlorine release, steam explosion, fire).

[Seshat]

Dust fires - eg paper dust, grain dust - can be EXPLOSIVE. As in, just as bad as blowing up the building.

At any rate, here's my opinion on what should be - and if your workplace differs from this, consult the Health and Safety organisation in your part of the world.

1. If you are a trained professional (firefighter, paramedic, nurse, policeman, etc), ignore the rest of this. You should know what to do.

2. If the emergency is extremely small AND you are trained to handle that sort of emergency safely, deal with it IF you judge it to be safe to do so.

3. If you are a designated warden for an area, direct people to the safe exits, then get the f--- out. You should be receiving regular training in this, if not, consult Health and Safety.

4. If you are not a designated warden, but are a sensible person and deem it safe to do so, help get children or the disabled out. Capable adults, you can yell at to follow you to safety, but on their own heads be it.

5. Get the hell to a safe place.

Repeat. GET THE HELL TO A SAFE PLACE.

If you don't already know designated 'safe places' near your workplace, find out. If there are none, Health and Safety should be told.

Designate two safe places for your family, as well, in case you need to evacuate your home. My family has a low-ground one and a high-ground one.

6. If your place of business has wardens, there should be one who has the responsibility for ensuring that you're safe: locate that person and get yourself registered as safe.
If not, then when the police arrive (or if it's bad enough, the Red Cross/Crescent or equivalent), one or more of them will be designated to make a list of survivors. Get yourself on that list.

7. If you're injured (but not seriously), sit down and wait for help. If you are seriously injured, get hold of the first warden, ambo, policeman or fireman you can find and let them triage you.

8. Assuming you're not injured: if you have first aid training, help with providing first aid. If you don't, consider offering help of other sorts: running errands for the first-aiders, or even finding a source of clean water and disposable cups and making sure everyone who isn't injured has a chance to drink.
(Don't give water to the injured unless their attending medical person says it's okay.)

9. Once you've been registered as safe, the best help you can offer might, in fact, be to leave the site. Cluttering up a dangerous site with extra people can make it harder to work. But DON'T leave until they know you're safe, otherwise people might risk their lives trying to get you out!
Regardless: ask the professionals about this one. They may want to ship you and other apparently-uninjured people to the local ER to make sure you're all okay. Or having someone bringing water to exhausted emergency personnel may make all the difference.

[crazylegs]

If people want to know about UK procedures there's an available book - the procedure is MIMMS.

Major incidents are extraordinarily complex and things will happen which don't seem normal - including no CPR.

I'll put that again.

In a major incident with considerable numbers of severe casualties no CPR will be undertaken by attending paramedics.

Additionally if you can walk, regardless of your injury you will be at the bottom of the triage pile.

Any other q's let me know

[Seshat]

In serious, major incidents, often the best help you can provide is to stay out of the way of the professionals.

If you're a victim of the incident, I reiterate: get yourself registered as a survivor so that noone risks their lives trying to rescue you. Then ask that person what they want the survivors with your level of injury to do.

If you're only mildly injured and not in shock; and you have a family member or friend with a high first aid certificate or better (eg nurse, nurse practitioner, doctor), the best thing you can do regarding the emergency might be to leave your contact details and go be with the person who can monitor you.
Offer that option, but if they want you to stay put, stay put.
(DO NOT DRIVE. Have the friend come and pick you up. No matter how good you feel, you might have internal injuries, or be in shock and not recognise it.)

You may well be contacted by forensic engineers, forensic firefighters, or other relevent 'what the hell caused this?' people, after the event. They'll be trying to prevent the emergency from happening again.

[crazylegs]

If you're a victim of the incident, I reiterate: get yourself registered as a survivor so that noone risks their lives trying to rescue you. Then ask that person what they want the survivors with your level of injury to do.

Absolutely, at major incidents here a survivors centers will be set up close(ish) to the scene for exactly this purpose. There will also be agencies present to make sure any welfare issues are dealt with (such as clothing, how to get you home etc).

[Seshat]

Indeed. 'How to get you home' being one of the important ones.

No matter how you think you feel, your body has just had a major fight/flight response going. You are NOT safe to drive; further, the streets in the area should be kept clear for emergency response vehicles (including the secondary responders, such as the charities who will be seeing to the welfare of the survivors).

Anyway: just hope that your local cops have a crazylegs equivalent in charge of your particular emergency. He may be busy right now ensuring that the folks with arterial blood loss are getting loaded into ambulances; but he'll get to the 'walking wounded' as soon as the 'must get to an ER' folks are handled.

[Geek King]

I would think that a dense roll of paper would burn like a log (i.e. slowly) if it was rolled tight enough. Am I wrong about this?

The outside catches and spreads quickly, the inside keeps it going for a long-ish time, combining to the danger of fighting such a thing. I'm told, based on like places that did catch fire, the fire would be hot enough and burn long enough to melt the metal superstructure of the warehouse building.

That place recieved the paper rolls already finished, so paper dust was a minimum. We also swept a couple times a shift to keep ahead of what did get generated during the cutting process.

[Seshat]

Yes - surprising things can cause severe fires.

One tunnel fire that became suddenly explosive was caused by a truck that was carrying butter and flour. Once the butter had melted, and the butter/flour mixture had heated up enough - boom.

Never, ever trust a fire to stay small. Never, ever trust a building to stay up 'just that little bit longer'. If you slow down to save a child or an injured/disabled person, you ARE risking your own life. Even taking a second to hit an emergency alarm can make the difference between getting out uninjured and being clipped by a falling girder. But I like to think I'd take that second. (Never been in that situation, so I don't know.)


Don't slow down for any reason that's less important than saving someone's life. It's not worth it. Even experienced firefighters can be surprised by 'flashover' or 'backdraft'; and experienced engineers can be surprised by sudden collapse.

Act accordingly. Life is the only thing that matters. Stuff is replaceable.

[wolfie]

Yes - surprising things can cause severe fires.

One tunnel fire that became suddenly explosive was caused by a truck that was carrying butter and flour. Once the butter had melted, and the butter/flour mixture had heated up enough - boom.

Who would have thought that groceries would be hazardous material. Note to self: when making roux, make it in SMALL batches.

It's sad to see cluelessness about hazards. Due to poison gas issues, you NEVER mix ammonia and bleach. On the other hand, walk into any supermarket, go to the cleaning supplies aisle, and what do you always see side by side? I guess that, because they're both cleaning supplies, and both ship in the same size container, it's convenient to put them next to each other.

[crazylegs]

Never, ever trust a fire to stay small. Never, ever trust a building to stay up 'just that little bit longer'. If you slow down to save a child or an injured/disabled person, you ARE risking your own life. Even taking a second to hit an emergency alarm can make the difference between getting out uninjured and being clipped by a falling girder. But I like to think I'd take that second. (Never been in that situation, so I don't know.)

Additionally odd places make odd fires - I think it was Kings Cross Tube station had a fire on an escalator, this funneled the fire & made it much more intense than would be normal for a fire of that size. This is why in the UK you'll now find fire shutters above all escalators in public places.

[MoonCat]

Um, NO. Just no. Unless you are a trained professional, you should not be trying to fight fires, you should be getting the hell out of there and calling 9-1-1 from a safe location.

Obviously if it's a cigarette smoldering in a trash can and you can safely and quickly smother the fire, that's one thing. A real fire? I repeat: NO.

If you doubt me, call the Fire Prevention office in your town or check with your local fire department. Fires can get out of hand very quickly, even with firefighters on the scene! Professionals get months, if not years, of training, not the quick-and-dirty "training" you're likely to get at your average office or plant. It may not even be legal for them to tell you not to leave. They tried that where I work, years ago when I had just started working there. When the fire alarm went off, and it wasn't a drill, the manager at the time would say to just keep working "until he found out if it was really an emergency."

That was until the fire dept. found out about it. Oh, they stopped that nonsense damn quick after the firefighters had a little talk with HR.