Ok, for all of you who know more about comics/super heroes than I do...

[mjr]

What actually constitutes a "super hero"?

I posit that Batman (or Bat-Man, or however it's supposed to actually be spelled) is NOT a super hero.

Batman does not have anything that could be defined as a "super power".

He has physical skills and conditioning, wealth, intellect, gadgets, and a "dark" side that help him catch the criminals.

Spider-Man? I can understand why he's a Super Hero.
Superman? Absolutely.
Green Lantern? Sure.

Did the Hulk actually start out as a Super Hero?? My only real recollection of the hulk was the old television series with Lou Ferrigno as The Hulk. And if I recall correctly, he had a different purpose. He did things as David B (where the B stood for any number of aliases) as he traveled from town to town, but I don't think he was considered a "super hero", at least during the TV show.

So, what actually constitutes a "Super Hero"?

[Jay 2K Winger]

I'd tend to agree with you, mjr. If a costumed vigilante doesn't have superpowers, they're not really a superhero.

Unfortunately, most of Hollywood takes the view of "wears a mask/cape? fights crime? SUPERHERO."

The Hulk isn't a superhero by your or my definition, mjr. He sometimes does help people out, but for the most part, Hulk just wants to be left alone.

[EricKei]

It really depends on whom you ask -- AFAIK, the "Is Batman a superhero?" debate, in particular, is one which has inspired many a raging flamewar x.x

[Sheldonrs]

My definition of a "superhero" is someone
Who goes to extraordinary lengths to do right.
Super powers or no.

[lordlundar]

Unfortunately, most of Hollywood takes the view of "wears a mask/cape? fights crime? SUPERHERO."

Actually Hollywood doesn't even factor into this. DC was calling Batman a superhero long before the first movie. It's was largely due the creation of the Comic Code Authority. Prior to it comics were very dark, violent and generally unpleasant. When the CCA was created, most of the comics were banned with the only exception being the super powered caped crusaders. Batman was on the list to be cut due to the way he was handled prior it the CCA. To combat this, he (and a lot of other vigilantes) were redesigned and in the case of DC dubbed as "superheroes" while other companies like Marvel simply called them heroes (due to DC owning the trademark on "superhero") which put him in the classification as the super powered ones. Several decades and the term stuck.

[Gravekeeper]

I don't tend to hear Batman referred to as a superhero. There's a reason he has all these other monikers like the Dark Knight. However, objectively speaking, he's essentially a tech/gadget origin hero to use CoH / Champions approach to classifying him. Depending on the incarnation, he is varying shades of mad scientist if you get right down to it.

I wouldn't say he's a superhero in the classical sense ( and historically he was not called one in the hey day of comics ). He would snapped in half like a twig by the typical super villain. But at the same time I don't know why anyone would care enough to bitterly argue that he is one. -.-

To be bluntly honest, its the fact he's not a super hero that makes him a compelling character.

[Moirae]

Nothing in the mythology says that the person HAS to be supernatural in some way. And technically, batman DOES fall in that category. His intelligence is far beyond any normal human being and he's capable of pretty much anything due to his ability to think ahead. Heck, he even beat superman. No one else in any universe has ever been able to do that.

My husband has a saying whenever you pose a question as to who will win against batman... the answer is always batman. Why? "Because he's batman".

And btw, green lantern would fall into the same category as batman. It's a gadget that makes him super, nothing more.

[dendawg]

...green lantern would fall into the same category as batman. It's a gadget that makes him super, nothing more.

A gadget that relies on willpower to operate, which if IIRC, Batman struggled to get to even work at all.

[EricKei]

He would snapped in half like a twig by the typical super villain.

Which has happened once or twice, as I recall.

But at the same time I don't know why anyone would care enough to bitterly argue that he is one. -.-

This is the internet. People will participate in epic, raging flame wars over exactly which shade of blue the sky happens to be.

To be bluntly honest, its the fact he's not a super hero that makes him a compelling character.

Agreed.

My husband has a saying whenever you pose a question as to who will win against batman... the answer is always batman. Why? "Because he's batman".

For another take on this, there's always 8BT's 'Bats vs Doom' bit (the linked one plus the following one)

[Raveni]

For reference, I just watched Avengers Confidential: Black Widow & Punisher, and Black Widow was specifically referred to as a "superhero" by one of the characters, but obviously of nowhere near the level of the heavy hitters like Iron Man or Thor since she has no powers.

Ps, some quite pleasant but surprising additions to the team.

[Tama]

There are some who argue that his fight with Superman (and winning, in a way) puts him in the league of a superhero, but they tend to forget one thing...

Clark was too busy going, "Bruce, your heart!" and worrying about his health to do much of anything to hurt Bruce.

[Jay 2K Winger]

For another take on this, there's always 8BT's 'Bats vs Doom' bit (the linked one plus the following one)

Thanks for linking to that. As soon as I read the talk of "who'd win in a fight vs Batman" in this thread, I immediately thought of that 8BT page.

There are some who argue that his fight with Superman (and winning, in a way) puts him in the league of a superhero, but they tend to forget one thing...

Clark was too busy going, "Bruce, your heart!" and worrying about his health to do much of anything to hurt Bruce.

There's also the fact that Superman is generally holding back against a lot of his opponents, because he's all too aware that he could kill someone easily.

[Tama]

Except he takes delight in scaring the holy bajeesus (and piss) out of the elites.

I never want to watch that again ever. Supes is supposed to be the guy who'd not fuck with your brain and shit.

That was scary.

[Geek King]

There's also the fact that Superman is generally holding back against a lot of his opponents, because he's all too aware that he could kill someone easily.

One should also look into the Bats v. Supes fight from the "Hush" story arc. Not only is it a good read, but Superman was not particularly holding back, as he was under the influence of Poison Ivy. While Supes did hold back from massive property damaging moves (using heat vision where he might explode gas pipes), he was using full-powered strikes against Batman, as if the Poison Ivy influence had put Batman into the "foe" category in Superman's mind, but not overridden his main "not harming the innocent" programming.

Sideline: Interesting that this implies that Superman doesn't consider Batman a foe normally, but also doesn't consider him innocent. ^^

[Sapphire Silk]

What actually constitutes a "super hero"?

I posit that Batman (or Bat-Man, or however it's supposed to actually be spelled) is NOT a super hero.

Batman does not have anything that could be defined as a "super power".

Batman actually does have a superpower. It's an Intelligence Drain, only vs the Justice League of America. Haven't you ever noticed how stupid Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and the rest get around Batman?

Did the Hulk actually start out as a Super Hero?? My only real recollection of the hulk was the old television series with Lou Ferrigno as The Hulk. And if I recall correctly, he had a different purpose. He did things as David B (where the B stood for any number of aliases) as he traveled from town to town, but I don't think he was considered a "super hero", at least during the TV show.

I don't consider the Hulk to be a superhero. He's an anti-villain, which is not quite the same thing. Bruce Banner is actually a bit of a nutcase in the comics. The idea is based on Dr Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.

Any good the Hulk does is purely by accident. It is very difficult to control the Hulk or use him for positive ends. Eventually, some of the things the Hulk did, with Banner in full control, made him irredeemable, especially in the World War Hulk storyline.

Pretty much the best thing that could happen IMHO, is if Thor tossed the Hulk into the Sun.

So, what actually constitutes a "Super Hero"?

To be a super hero one must both have a super power of some sort (it does not have to be powerful; some of my favorite stories are the Legion of Substitute Heroes or Subs) and to have a desire to use them to benefit society, and so use them in that way. Superman is the epitome of this. Spider man qualifies. The Batman is not a superhero for a couple of reasons; one he is not super powered, and two his arrogance undermines much of the good he tries to do. He leaves a trail of human wreckage in his wake.

To be bluntly honest, its the fact he's not a super hero that makes him a compelling character.

I find him compelling in cartoons. I very much enjoyed BTAS, Batman Beyond, and Batman Superman Adventures. The Batman was good, too.

I find him an absolute prick in the comics. I've enjoyed some of the supporting cast series (I really liked the Spoiler, and read Robin and Catgirl for awhile), though. His supporting cast, IMHO, are much more interesting than Batman himself. He's pretty much been explored as much as he can be.