If I would have known...

[ML2000]

Hi Everyone!

Some Background, I work as a Helpdesk Tech/Field Tech at a local service provider. We installed a new Server for a client since their previous system was on its last legs and the backup tape drive did not work. They Also have a 10+ year old copier. Needless to say the copier's scan software did NOT run on the new system...

Client: I am unable to scan.

Me: The software does not support the new Server OS, your copier is long out of support and you will need to upgrade to a new unit.

Client: You need to fix it so I can scan, this copier is NOT that old!

Me: The unit is more than 10 years old, I'm sorry but the manufacturer no longer updates the software for this unit.

Client: Well if I would have known that it would break my scanner I would never have agreed to upgrade to the new Server!


So you would rather risk losing all your data, and a boatload of downtime and lost productivity just because you don't want to get a new copier? The same copier we have been warning you is not supported for the past 5 years!! Luckily my supervisor took my side and basically told them we do not consider decade old equipment when advising to protect and prevent data loss.

[Hitokiri Akins]

So you would rather risk losing all your data, and a boatload of downtime and lost productivity just because you don't want to get a new copier? The same copier we have been warning you is not supported for the past 5 years!! Luckily my supervisor took my side and basically told them we do not consider decade old equipment when advising to protect and prevent data loss.

Upgrading costs money. Complaining costs nothing.

[raudf]

Manufacturers are only required to keep parts for products for 10 years. At least that was the "rules/laws" I was told by the parts manager when I worked for the repair center. Doesn't matter whether there were parts for an item or not, it was often just cheaper to buy a new one than to repair the old! And with electronics, I'd say five years seem to be the "repair vs replace" break point.

And we still had people complain because we/they couldn't get parts for their 20 year old TV or it'd cost an arm and a leg to repair it! (That would have made it a year younger than I was at the time!) I get that you don't want to buy into the whole "conspicuous consumption" concept, but the older it gets, the harder it is to keep it running.

[wolfie]

They Also have a 10+ year old copier. Needless to say the copier's scan software did NOT run on the new system...

Client: I am unable to scan.

Me: The software does not support the new Server OS, your copier is long out of support and you will need to upgrade to a new unit.

Client: You need to fix it so I can scan, this copier is NOT that old!

That's where you approach a place that does custom device drivers, and ask for a "ballpark" quote (in this case, whether it would be over or under $X, where $X is the price of a new copier which comes with drivers for the new server OS) on a custom device driver to support the old copier under the new server OS. Hint - it'll come out over, since development costs will be amortized over ONE unit.

At this point, you can go back to the client and let them know that you CAN get a custom device driver written for them, but it would cost them more than replacing the copier, and the money would be wasted if the copier fails and can't be repaired (due to lack of parts for a 10 year old unit).

[Seshat]

Hey, I'll gladly pose as such a place. Charge them a quote fee, I can draw you up a lovely quote, letterhead and all. Toss me - oh, 75% of the quote fee (since I'll be the one drawing up the quote, after all).

Seshat Software. Logo a stylised papyrus stem (like my avatar is holding). I charge $100AU/hour. Toth, my consultant, $250. And OF COURSE we would need one of the copiers in question to test things with. And OF COURSE, hardware and system software the same as what they have, also to test with.

What, you mean the test environment alone would cost more than a replacement? You don't say!

[mhkohne]

Manufacturers are only required to keep parts for products for 10 years. At least that was the "rules/laws" I was told by the parts manager when I worked for the repair center. Doesn't matter whether there were parts for an item or not, it was often just cheaper to buy a new one than to repair the old! And with electronics, I'd say five years seem to be the "repair vs replace" break point.

And we still had people complain because we/they couldn't get parts for their 20 year old TV or it'd cost an arm and a leg to repair it! (That would have made it a year younger than I was at the time!) I get that you don't want to buy into the whole "conspicuous consumption" concept, but the older it gets, the harder it is to keep it running.

That was likely rules for that company at that time. There's no law on the subject, at least in the US. Heck, we have to pay extra to get computers with a guarantee of 5 years of availability.

[cashierbex]

Upgrading costs money. Complaining costs nothing.

Complaining may cost them more if they don't do something about it. Productivity and all.

[Silent-Hunter]

Why didn't he just buy a new tape drive? That's what I did when my QIC drive stopped working, I went to the computer store and bought another for $75.

[Ophbalance]

It should already be off this companies balance sheet given the age. It's a cost of doing business, just buy a new one and move along .

[ML2000]

Why didn't he just buy a new tape drive? That's what I did when my QIC drive stopped working, I went to the computer store and bought another for $75.

We did propose getting a tape drive and the discounted upgrade of the backup software but they also didn't want to invest in that (Same dribble, tape drive is not that old blah blah). They are just one of those that expect everything to work forever and never need to be replaced. New system uses D2D2NE to backup first to a local connected Hard Drive then to a offsite server and thats what we run on the new system.

[protege]

It should already be off this companies balance sheet given the age. It's a cost of doing business, just buy a new one and move along .

Unfortunately, there are some businesses that will attempt to squeeze every last penny they can out of something. They want to keep depreciating things (they can write off the loss in value)...but they also don't want to replace things. Then they bitch when their ancient equipment finally does fail.

For example, I once worked for a guy like that. He'd buy the cheapest computers he could find, and when they'd have issues, I'd get ordered to patch them up with whatever I could scrounge. After several failures, I either couldn't get the parts or they'd been patched up so many times, it was only a matter of time before they died. I don't mind fixing things, I really don't. But, when I have to fix the *same* computer, with the *same* problem, for the 52nd time, it tends to piss me off

That was why when one of our 12-year old Windows XP machines finally destroyed itself, I refused to fix it again. The motherboard was failing, the hard drive was having issues, and I just couldn't see the point of dumping more cash into fixing it. It would have been cheaper to simply replace it. So when the boss was away, that computer mysteriously "failed" and found its way to the scrappie. I pulled the data, and recycled the carcass.

[DGoddessChardonnay]

Unfortunately, there are some businesses that will attempt to squeeze every last penny they can out of something. They want to keep depreciating things (they can write off the loss in value)...but they also don't want to replace things. Then they bitch when their ancient equipment finally does fail.

And it's not just smaller companies that are that way when it comes to anything to do with technology and/or software - large corporations are the same way as well.

We're supposed to be getting new registers for the front end by the end of this year at my store (but then we've heard that tale for at least the last 3 years or so, so make of that what you will) and we got new handheld units about 3 years or so ago (which I think they bought in bulk at a church bazaar but I digress) yet we're still running XP on Dell workstations that are probably 10 years old by now (and I've been with this company almost that long) and should have already been taken out back and shot.

Yet they want the productivity . . . go figure.

[Captain Trips]

Where I used to work, our execs wanted to save money on ink, so instituted a "print in b/w except when necessary" policy. (We were using Xerox wax-jet printers, and the color crayons weren't cheap.) Problem is, Xerox driers default to color, you have to go in and manually change it to b/w.

Well, this was too much work, so we contracted with Xerox for a new driver, they wrote it for us okay. Only cost us $10,000.

Each time Xerox replaced the printers (they were leases), it meant a new driver - and another $10,000.

They had the opposite problem - they felt "just throw more money at it to fix it." They are currently having financial difficulties....

[Ophbalance]

Unfortunately, there are some businesses that will attempt to squeeze every last penny they can out of something. They want to keep depreciating things (they can write off the loss in value)...but they also don't want to replace things. Then they bitch when their ancient equipment finally does fail.

According to the IRS, you can do it all at once or over 5 years. Maybe they can squeeze more out of it with an annual service contract for service? But anything beyond that 5 year mark is already done and gone in terms of cost recovery.

[TopEndDave]

This reminds me of a time when I first worked for the NT Government. A politician had decided that in order to save money there would be a freeze on all capital expenditure. A critical camera system failed and the tech put a request in for a new one. The request was denied due to capital expenditure freeze but there was money in the repairs budget. The cost to repair the system was double the cost of a new one. Management was willing to waste money to appear to be saving money and keep the politicians happy.