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This is seriously ruining performing in wind symphonies for me

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  • This is seriously ruining performing in wind symphonies for me

    So, I am a member of a community band... it really isn't that great, it is my I feel bad for them so help them out band... but it is really turning me off of performing music in general (the other group I'm in is amazing though, which is why I haven't quit yet).
    Now this group started as a senior group... and as such the majority (read into that all but three of us) are seniors because they only opened it up to all ages about 6 months ago. That doesn't bother me too much by itself, but it is does make us stand out and not in the best of ways at times.
    Now, talking about being some of the youngest, at the last concert the programs were printed "(prominent arts family) senior band" and the conductor, rather than correcting it introduced us as the senior band and said to the audience, and this is a direct quote, "everyone is at least 55 years old, with of course one obvious exception in the back, my son (name) is only 13, but he is so good we let him join." Needless to say, me and another girl who are under 55 (I'm 28, she's 30), were a bit put off by being such obvious exceptions that the audience can see and being completely ignored... and of course having been told it was an open to everyone group only to have the conductor announcing us a senior only.
    The conductor is going to be a common theme in this. He coddles members who aren't willing to practice and improve... when someone has trouble with music he doesn't try to encourage them to improve, doesn't try to push them to improve... he tells them "it's okay, this music is probably harder than we should do, it says it is a level 1, but I think it really is a level 2." Now, anyone who is familiar with music levels is probably doing an epic facepalm because at least in the American system a level 2 is about what a lower level middle school player should be able to play. Now, the song he is talking about may be mis leveled, but it sure as hell isn't too difficult for someone who applies themselves, and he needs to start pushing people... no, he wont' do that, rather he encourages those of us who are pulling ahead to slow down to allow the people who don't want to work at it to improve.
    A good example of that was two weeks ago, we had a song that called for fortississimo (in English, play as loud as you can and then play louder)... I played as loud as possible (while still maintaining tone)... I was told that I needed to play quieter because no one else was playing as loud... hello, fortississimo, tell them to play louder.
    Oh, and I mentioned that the conductor's son is in the group... yeah, special treatment beyond belief. Any other section, figure out who gets what chair between yourselves... percussion, my son must be first chair, he's amazing and something of a prodigy, so first chair it must be (which, for the record, his son is a decent player, above average for his age in fact, but no prodigy).
    Also, the conductor can't keep time... the trumpets have a horrible tendency to slow down... he has a terrible tendency of following them... now, if we follow him too, he'll accuse us of dragging (because you know, it is all our fault we follow the conductor)... if we keep a steady speed and he starts slowing down to coddle the trumpet players, he'll accuse us of rushing... seriously, make up your mind... do you want us to follow you or go a steady speed?
    Now we come down to the two worst offenses. I'll do the one that doesn't affect me directly first (well, not directly beyond me finding out what type of person he is). We had another younger person show up to join, a hispanic (yes, relevant) guy in his 20s... percussionist, awesome percussionist too (and cute to boot, so I may be a bit biased )... near the end of the rehearsal the conductor said "wow, I'm surprised, I guess there are some hispanics with talent." Wow, that bit of racism just came out of nowhere. Needless to say, the cute and talented drummer never came back.
    Now, the one that has me most peeved, and it does affect me more directly. The conductor is a member of the community college band that I am in... he decided that the community college band doesn't have enough tuba players (we had two tuba players in a group with less than 50 people, so about where you'd want it to be). He decided to invite one of the tuba players from his group to join the community college group... he did this without the permission of the conductor of the community college group, with only three rehearsals before a performance, and without having to pay the same fees the rest of us had to pay to participate. Oh, and this guy that he invited is a class A+ asshole. First thing he did after showing up was telling the other tuba players that he was so awesome that they might as well let him take over the section (he isn't a bad player, but he sure as hell ain't great). He then started to tell everyone in the group who would listen to him that the repair person we had been using was a liar and a cheat and we should all switch to him (that liar and cheat is someone we have all used and has some of the lowest prices in the valley and has always done amazing repairs, and is so dishonest that she'll even admit when she isn't the most qualified person for a particular repair and refer us to someone who can better fix the problem). So now two days a week rather than one I have to deal with this asshole, who is going to bring us down in our next performance, and has brought discord into our otherwise very harmonious group.
    So yeah, really getting ready to leave... no challenge, out of place, and a conductor who is an ass.
    If you wish to find meaning, listen to the music not the song

  • #2
    1. Level 2 aka "lower-level middle school" is where I started out as a saxa-ma-phone player. IOW not hard. Are these band members struggling with Hot Cross Buns or something?

    2. More's the pity nobody got his remarks on tape or an audio file. That would've gotten him shit-canned faster than you can say Donald Sterling.
    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

    "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

    Comment


    • #3
      Is firing the conductor an option for the used to be senior only group? As for the other group, complain to the community college administration, maybe? Why is this guy's friend being allowed into the band group at all?
      You're only delaying the inevitable, you run at your own expense. The repo man gets paid to chase you. ~Argabarga

      Comment


      • #4
        Quoth Kittish View Post
        Why is this guy's friend being allowed into the band group at all?
        Probably for the same reason his kid was added to the band--because it's his band and he's going to do what he wants with it.
        Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

        "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

        Comment


        • #5
          Bring a metronome*. Play to the metronome, not the conductor. When the conductor accuses you of rushing...


          I know, I know. Not diplomatic.


          But seriously, I have a timing problem. I KNOW I have a timing problem. If I were learning to conduct, I'd use a metronome. Heck, I'm not learning to conduct and I use metronomes (or computer-metronome-thingies) and try to improve my timing.


          As for bringing the tuba player into the second band, I'd have a word with that band's conductor; or if the conductor isn't the one handling the organising/administration/'diplomacy', whoever is.


          * for non-musicians, a metronome is basically a device, originally clockwork, that keeps a constant time and helps you learn to do the same thing.
          Metronomes are especially important for conductors and percussionists, as the conductor (if present) sets and maintains the time for the band, and the percussionist does if there is no conductor.
          So smiley's complaint about the conductor not maintaining the timing is basically saying he's not doing one of his primary jobs in the band.
          Seshat's self-help guide:
          1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
          2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
          3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
          4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

          "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd say ask him to hold a live wire - then you'd see how bad a conductor he really is.
            Any fool can piss on the floor. It takes a talented SC to shit on the ceiling.

            Comment


            • #7
              Leave the senior band and don't look back. Keep the community college one, but speak with the conductor about your issues.. you're probably not the only one having them and the conductor may be looking for an excuse to axe the guy.

              My son's first band concert labored through Hot Crossed Buns.. but unlike these people, most, if not all of the kids never played before and were learning to read music, play the instrument and follow instructions all at the same time!
              If I make no sense, I apologize. I'm constantly interrupted by an actual toddler.

              Comment


              • #8
                I sing in multiple choirs, with multiple skill levels. In one mid-level choir, we're the guinea pigs for the choral conducting MFA students. One of the conductors is condescending, abrasive, and has chosen a piece we all hate (I Furuskogan). I think insecurity is a huge part of it- she's talented, but has no control over the choir, which frustrates her, and makes her bitchy. Hopefully she resolves this before next year when she has to do her thesis performance.

                The advantage to being part of multiple groups is the ability to drop one when it becomes too frustrating. Sometimes it's just not a good fit.

                Comment


                • #9
                  DTMFA. I am a violin player and I've been in several community groups. I would be embarrassed to be in a shitty orchestra. I'd get out of there fast.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Quoth Kittish View Post
                    Is firing the conductor an option for the used to be senior only group?
                    It is, but it isn't... he's a volunteer, and while he could be asked to step down, they couldn't afford to ask him to (not only would replacing him most likely require hiring someone, even if they could find another volunteer, they would lose their rent free arrangement for rehearsal space that they have now)

                    Quoth Irving Patrick Freleigh View Post
                    Probably for the same reason his kid was added to the band--because it's his band and he's going to do what he wants with it.
                    That's the thing, the community college band that he just invited his friend to play in is in no way his band, he is nothing more than a member of that one (okay, so he is a section lead, but that means jack shit beyond getting to choose who gets what part of who solos within your section). I think the only reason that the conductor at the CC band tolerates him is because he's a french horn player and it is nearly impossible to find french horn players... it's the same reason that she used to put up with our old second chair trombone player, she couldn't afford to lose a trombone player when she only had three, as soon as I joined and brought us up to 4, she started making him tow the line, he quit, I moved from 3rd chair to second, and everyone was much happier... that scenario won't play out with a french horn player though... as hard as it is to find qualified trombone players, we are a dime a dozen compared to french horn players.
                    If you wish to find meaning, listen to the music not the song

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe it'd be worth it to you to take up french horn.
                      Seshat's self-help guide:
                      1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                      2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                      3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                      4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                      "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seshat Maybe it'd be worth it to you to take up french horn.
                        gosh i havent played the french horn since i got my tonsils out.

                        fun fact: if you learn to play the french horn with chronic tonsilitis (like chronic apendictsitis, not bad enough enough to come out right away but bad enough that you are basically guaranteed to get strep once every 2 months) you are learning to control your breath through inflamed tonsils and when they come out you will need to relearn to play around the lack of obstruction to your air ways.

                        which is really hard because you already have the muscle memory for the old way and its hard to convince your longs that the new way will work

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My niece plays french horn and she was in a professional orchestra for awhile before joining the Army. Needless to say we had to ask her what are the rounds per second were for a french horn.
                          Figers are vicious I tell ya. They crawl up your leg and steal your belly button lint.

                          I'm a case study.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quoth Cia View Post
                            Needless to say we had to ask her what are the rounds per second were for a french horn.
                            Zero. On the other hand, a French horn is perfect for accompanying the hymn mentioned in "Mississippi Squirrel Revival". What was its name again? Oh yes, I Surrender All.
                            Any fool can piss on the floor. It takes a talented SC to shit on the ceiling.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Quoth Seshat View Post
                              Maybe it'd be worth it to you to take up french horn.
                              A man is a horn.

                              Don't ask why that popped into my head when I read that, but anyhoo . . .

                              The extent of my musical abilities aren't much. I did try the clarinet in school band in 5th and part of 6th grades, but frankly I sounded like a train wreck in progress. You know you're not cut out for it when the band director asks you NOT to play during school concerts.

                              Needless to say, unlike some of the more overly dramatic losers we see on the American Idol auditions when told they aren't meant for a career in music, I dropped it and found something else that was a better fit.

                              Perhaps that's what Smiley could do - drop the one group and stay with the one where he actually feels comfortable. This senior group sounds like a sinking ship IMO and I wouldn't be surprised if it were to fold up in the near future.
                              Human Resources - the adult version of "I'm telling Mom." - Agent Anthony "Tony" DiNozzo (NCIS)

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