Am I wrong, or is my sister being a raving bitch?

[emt_cookies]

Maybe she was PMSing? I know before I went on the patch or when I was younger, I was unusually bitchy during my period. I'm still slightly emotional right before it.

I might be slightly annoyed myself if someone decided to focus on some tiny detail and not gush over my romantic story depending on my mood. She was overboard with it, but humans are human so we sometimes overreact. She'll probably forget about the comment in a day anyway.

[Jester]

No offense intended, Jester. You and I have often discussed that you can be a bit oblivious when it comes to subtleties and niceties of social situations, and you sometimes focus on the wrong end of things or miss when you might have hurt someone's feelings.
You know you do, buddy.

None taken, Ree. And yes, I know I do. However....see below. And Ree, you may be amused to know that, when this all went down, I thought back to our conversations about my frequent social cluelessness. But I really didn't think this was that much about that, since I corrected myself in the second comment. And yet she still came at me with guns blazing, her second comment to me being over the top Snarky. At least that's how I read it.

I have a friend who will take some of my sweet and sentimental updates completely off tangent by focusing on something that wasn't even the point of my post.

But this was not the case here. Yes, I focused on something other than the "Aww" factor. But I DID focus on something that WAS part of the post. Was it her main thrust? No. But was it part of the post? Yes. And honestly, I thought it was relevant. Obviously SHE didn't, but I didn't know that, and rather than address my ignorance of that, she went all Snarkopotamus on me.

Now, if you had commented on the romance part of the situation with her buying her sweetie's favourite wine while he bought hers for her, and then asked, "BTW...what kind of wine did you guys get?" that would have been different.

Which I did in my second comment. Honestly, this was the part of the whole thing that made me think of the conversations I've had with you about this very thing. Yeah, I had initially missed the point, but while I am a romantic, I have never been one to "ooo" and "ahhh" on facebook. Especially when it's being made clear that that is what is expected. Frankly, I think that that expectation is obnoxious....but that's getting even more tangential.

Something like, "That's really sweet. You guys obviously really know each other," or some other comment that was actually about the intent of her post.

Which I DID in my second comment to her, correcting my earlier faux pas.

IMO, that trivialized what she just said. That probably hurt her a bit and ticked her off.

I see what you're saying, and agree that that is probably what happened.....but also know without any question that if any of her friends had asked the EXACT question I had, she would have answered it sans snark.

Maybe it's time you had an honest talk and cleared the air???

Tried that in Phoenix. An apology I made for something she (and no one else) perceived as a slight by me turned into a sanctimonious preaching lecture about how to treat people by her. Which was way beyond the scope of the perceived slight. Lately, any attempt at reasonable and rational conversation with her deteriorates into her preaching, yelling, lecturing, and/or being totally irrational, no matter how calm I may be.

Obviously, as many have said, there is something going on there. What exactly it is has eluded myself, my parents, and my older sister.

Well we did haul 4 cases of beer from Phoenix for you.

Three, but who's counting. And again, thank you ever so much for that!

Whatever the number of cases, though, that hardly makes me a beer SNOB. Merely a beer LOVER.

Jester, I likely would have said exactly the same thing as you. Yes, it's sweet that they did that for each other, but I'm not necessarily going to oo and aw over it - there may be a quick "hah, that's great!" but that's about it.

This. This, this, this, this, this, and this. And furthermore, this.

I'm clearly a booze geek, as are you. And my family gets this. Everyone is happy to indulge my obsession when it comes to booze knowledge,

That applies to me and my family, too. The thing is....I'm not the only booze geek in the family. My older sister is as well. AS IS MY YOUNGER SISTER. Is she on the same level of booze geekery as my older sister and myself? No. Is she still pretty high up on the booze geek-o-meter? Hell, yes! Which is why I was shocked by her response....I would have figured she would have loved to have talked about the wines in question. Obviously I was wrong, but that doesn't make this any less head-scratching; normally she goes on about the various things she's drinking, i.e., booze geek, as you said.

Your sister was out of line and over the top. Her response was uncalled for, and in light of how you describe your recent interactions with her, I'd wonder if something is going on that she's not telling anyone (i.e. miscarriage, fertility issues, illness, job problems, relationship issues) for whatever misguided reason she may have.

Something, yes. What, I couldn't tell you. She has a new job she seems to love. A new boyfriend she clearly loves. Recently moved to London to move in with him, and seems to love living in London. Loves her animals. Not sick as far as I know. Not trying to get pregnant as far as I know. Etc., etc., etc. All the usual suspects are rather absent.

Am I correct in the impression that it's not the first time she's been snippy lately?

Quite correct. This started back in 1971. You know...when she was born.

Seriously, her latest hostility was noted by the whole family during our recent gathering in Phoenix. Oddly, in January 2010 when we all gathered, and she was fresh out of her divorce, she was not nearly as snippy. But this time, with a new boyfriend that we (the family) figured should have mellowed her out some, she was even more hostile, more defensive, and more belligerent than usual. And we couldn't figure out why. And by our estimation, the boyfriend is a peach, and very mellow to boot, so we don't think it's him....but who knows?

Seriously? A raving bitch? How the heck is she being a raving bitch because a moment she enjoyed was made into something trivial? How would anyone saying she was a bitch to have something sweet made into something trivial?

I didn't see it as trivial. Once I realized, however, that she DID, I tried correcting myself, pointing out that, while I had not commented on it, I did appreciate the romantic aspect (which I did). She still came with full Snarkitude.

Look, if this were someone who didn't know me all that well, I would fully agree with you that I am overstating this. But she does know me, has her whole life, and she knows I don't always think in the same linear fashion as everyone else.

That being said, after I "got in line" with the other ooh-ers and aah-ers, she was still rather snarky. A lot of people see it. You don't. While I don't agree with your assessment, I appreciate your take on things. Which may very well be her take. And since I don't understand your take, obviously I don't understand hers.

But again, this is not an isolated incident. I can't emphasize that enough.

If I posted something like that, I wouldn't expect every single person to comment on it saying "awwwwww" and stuff like that. When you (general "you") post on a social networking site, you have to realize that everyone has different personalities and will say different things. If anything, what you said may have warranted internal eye-rolling and then a response. Maybe a sarcastic comment, but nothing like that.

Precisely! But as I sit here reading all this, reading all the opinions on this, I am beginning to see that this is part of a larger pattern. I didn't realize it fully till just this moment, but she will often post "ooh and ahh" material on her page, and woe be to anyone (related to her) that doesn't fall in line with the appropriate fawning. The difference is that usually it's about her animals. I'm sorry, but one can only ooh and ahh so many times over the same animal that you've never met. But in her world, we must adore and worship her pets as much as she does.

It goes beyond even the fawning. See, in any discussion, if you don't agree with Lil Sis, You Are Wrong. She is very black and white in her views of the world. She often will lecture the rest of the family about How Family Is Supposed To Be, completely ignoring the obvious fact that our family Just Ain't Like That. Maybe that is the underlying part of her hostility. I dunno....trying to figure this all out at 2:44 am while fighting a raging hangover from a misspent Saturday in the tropics is not exactly the easiest (or brightest) thing I've ever done.

...to continue going, that's what crossed the line for her.

She never has been one to simply let something go. It seems to not be in her nature.

Maybe she was PMSing?

That would be an explanation, not an excuse.

She'll probably forget about the comment in a day anyway.

I've got a beer that says you're wrong. And I would advise you not to take that bet...I've known this woman a lot longer than you have.

[Ree]

OK, I am going to confess ... I know who O. Henry is but I am at a loss to see what the 'O. Henry aspect' of sis's story is. Only thing I can think of is 'The Gift of the Magi' (since it's obviously not 'The Ransom of Red Chief,' LOL!)

I think they were going for Gift of the Magi, but it doesn't really fit, since in the story they each did something so they could get the other a gift that ended up being unusable because of what the other did to be able to get the other's gift.

I do know how "The Gift of the Magi" goes and that the situation was not identical to the story.
I referenced it because it had actually been brought up in Jester's OP where he quoted the Facebook conversation:

--FRIEND ONE: "You two are so right for each other it's sickening...in a lovely way of course! x"

--FRIEND TWO: "That is awesome...i say finish them both!!!"

--FRIEND THREE: "isn't that an o'henry story?"

--JESTER: "And the obvious question is: what are the wines in question?"

It was a similar theme, even if not identical.

I'm assuming they meant Gift of the Magi, just taking the very small part of it about getting each other what they really wanted

That's exactly what I meant. I was referring to the idea of two people making a selfess gesture for each other, even if it wasn't to the full scope of the story.

I can offer a guess as to why she said what she did about the names of the wines...

Jester, you tend to be... Hm... Diversionary. You can take a topic from what it originally was and either misinterpret it unintentionally and take it down another path, or read the subtext about a situation incorrectly and change the whole vibe of the thing without meaning to.

That's what I was trying to say.
As I mentioned, I have a friend who does the same thing, and even though it pisses me off, I love him dearly, so I sometimes give him snarky answers when he has missed the point of my message and has pulled things in the wrong direction.

You snipped a bit too much there. He said something nice after being called out on his question of the wines made the moment ruined and trivial.

Exactly!! You jumped to asking about the wine first and only threw in a comment on the romantic part, which was her actual point, after she said, "That's not the point."
You cared about the wine, and you feel since wine was mentioned, that it was relevant, but obviously she didn't see it that way.
What you did was similar to having her post, "Yeah, so I made a reservation and took him his favourite restaurant for his favourite meal, and it turns out that he had arranged the same for me," and having you say, "And the obvious question is: what are the restaurants in question?" or "And the obvious question is: what did you eat?"
I really didn't see the comment from her as bitchy, but then, I don't know the woman and haven't really seen your interaction with her.

You also have a tendency, when someone points out that you might have been slightly out of line, to excuse away your words or acts.

--LIL SIS: "That's totally not the point, my brother."

--JESTER: "Oh no, sis, I totally understand the POINT of the story. I think it's sweet and romantic, and I love the fact that it happened. But as a fellow wine drinker, I am still curious what your and his favorite wines are."

See? Case in point.
She said, "That's not the point," and you pushed on with the same question about the wine.
Just because you added a nod to the actual point of her story after she called you on it, that really isn't saying something nice.
It came across as if you only mentioned it because she forced you to.
I think the answer lies somewhere in your own words:

there are times when she accuses me of being thoughtless and inconsiderate

Obviously, there is a history, and she sees it as yet another of those times.

Just give me your honest opinion. Because I would rather have your brutal honesty, whatever it may be, than what you may think I want to hear.

And that's what I was doing, my friend.

[Jester]

Precisely, Ree. And that is why you rock.

Yes, I can see it from her point of view now, which I probably couldn't earlier.

But yes, there is a history here, one I've mentioned in this thread already, so I don't think I need to rehash what's been said, though I will explain a bit of that history more thoroughly below.

All that being said, I do think she was unnecessarily snarky/bitchy/whatever you want to call it. The whole thing in Phoenix is still fresh in my memory, for one thing. For another thing, she can be, and usually is, just as obtuse as I am. And when she accuses me of being thoughtless or inconsiderate, she does it in a way that makes it sound like I am maliciously and intentionally being an asshole, just to stir the shit. I admit I can be a bit dense. But even CSers, who have known me far shorter than my little sister, know that when I want to be evil and malicious, I certainly have no problem doing so, and am hardly subtle about it.

Yeah, perhaps I fucked up. Perhaps I missed the point of the story. Perhaps I didn't ooh and aah where I was supposed to. Frankly, I thought my initial comment injected some humor into the whole thing, but clearly that was not what Lil Sis wanted.

But the woman cannot take an apology. And she has to drag things out, usually very dramatically, no matter what, until she is vindicated or proven right. Even if she is wrong. Especially when she is wrong. A glaring example of this is one time, when she was throwing a fit with the family (she was probably in her twenties or early thirties at the time), she blurted out something to the effect of we (the family) had no idea what it was like to be her, because SHE lost her father when she was only NINE!

Cue me looking on in shock, as I lost that same father when I was 10.
Cue my older sister looking on in shock, as she lost that same father when she was 14.
Cue my mother looking on in utter shock, as she lost that same man, her husband of 24 years, at that time.

The key difference being that, while Lil Sis for years made his death the Tragedy of her Childhood, the three of us dealt with the tragedy and, on our own way, moved on and made our own lives. I wouldn't doubt that she still brings that up in moments of angst, whether to try to illicit sympathy from her friends or simply because she truly believes that it was this Horrible Thing that No One Else Can Understand, I don't know. I do know that the four of us in the room that day (our stepfather was there as well) were stunned and amazed that she would try to play that card with US.

So, clearly, from both my perspective and hers, this situation goes far beyond the whole wine thing. We were probably both in the wrong. But this to me was the point where I just finally got fed up with her overdoing of the "I've been wronged" thing. I'm sick of her playing the aggrieved party, the victim, and blaming everyone else for everything, making every minor mistake major. Was I a little dense here? Duh. Clearly. Ree made that clear, with insight I could not see. But did she overreact? I think so.

Lil Sis clearly has issues and demons that she hasn't worked out yet. As do many people, of course. But sometimes talking to her is like walking on eggshells with tripwires to landmines. In the dark.

Wow. That was a rant. A rant and a half, really. Sorry if that was a bit much for y'all.

I still find it amusing when people think I am exaggerating when I say I am the quiet one in the family....and then they meet my sisters and realize I was telling the absolute truth.

[Pixilated]

You snipped a bit too much there. He said something nice after being called out on his question of the wines made the moment ruined and trivial.

Aethian, you have a point about him being called out. But my point is, when it was brought to his attention, he did try to make amends, and I thought he did rather a good job of it. It may have been an error on his part not to give this comment first, but -- and this is just my opinion -- if she felt that one person's lapse had completely wrecked the whole incident, then I stand by my opinion that she is going overboard. Her emphasis should be what she and BF did for each other and not on whether people are responding to it as she expects them to.

[Jester]

I think in the end, the answer the question I posed in the title of this thread is: both.

I was wrong, and she is being a raving bitch.

Sorry I bothered you all with this mess.

[KiaKat]

Sometimes you need other people to give you a different perspective to get the answer you need.

[Bella_Vixen]

I think your sister was a bitch. You ooohed and aaahed and then asked a question pertaining to her post. She was hostile.

[Mytical]

Family can get on our nerves more then anybody else..they know us, and know how to irk us the most. It can be hard to deal with family, and often no one person is at fault. Still, I lean more toward that your sister was a bit more to blame then you. *shrugs*

[Pixilated]

Family can get on our nerves more then anybody else..they know us, and know how to irk us the most. It can be hard to deal with family, and often no one person is at fault. Still, I lean more toward that your sister was a bit more to blame then you. *shrugs*

Mytical, you never mentioned that you've met my family!

Don't apologize, Jester. That's what this group is for.

[Jester]

Actually, Bella, you're mistaken. I asked a question pertaining to her post, THEN oohed and aahed after being rebuked for asking the wrong question, and/or not oohing and aahing to begin with.

[MoonCat]

Jester, I think your little sister is a drama queen. I'm basing this not just on the wine incident but on your story about her "losing her father" when she was nine---as though neither you, nor anybody else, had been there when it happened, nor had to deal with the same loss. How she managed to turn your whole family's loss into one that affected only her--well, I can only say it takes being totally focused on herself.

And the wine thing? While it was a cute coincidence, it was a pretty minor thing, really. It wasn't some huge, miraculous occurence deserving of page after page of ohs and ahs. You weren't even the first person to take it "off topic." Look at the comments again. The friend who asked, "Wasn't that an o. henry story?" actually did that first. She could just as easily have told that friend, "That's not the point." Yet you were the one who was snarked at.

So, here she is with her life going pretty well at the moment, yet she's been especially snarky toward you, to the point where the rest of the family is noticing. Unless you've done something really horrible to her that you haven't mentioned (and I don't believe this for a moment), I think the problem is not with you.

[Jester]

Jester, I think your little sister is a drama queen. I'm basing this not just on the wine incident but on your story about her "losing her father" when she was nine---as though neither you, nor anybody else, had been there when it happened, nor had to deal with the same loss. How she managed to turn your whole family's loss into one that affected only her--well, I can only say it takes being totally focused on herself.

Do you know how difficult it is to simultaneously be eating a burrito, drinking a beer, and saying "Yes! Yes! Yes!"? But somehow I managed it!

And the wine thing?

You weren't even the first person to take it "off topic."

Yet you were the one who was snarked at.

Precisely.

So, here she is with her life going pretty well at the moment, yet she's been especially snarky toward you, to the point where the rest of the family is noticing. Unless you've done something really horrible to her that you haven't mentioned (and I don't believe this for a moment), I think the problem is not with you.

I agree with your assessment. And, as far as I know, I haven't done anything really horrible to her. Other than, along with the rest of the family, not fitting her particular notion about what a family "ought" to be. We are not, it should be mentioned, the closest of families, and we don't always get along. Lil Sis holds a lot of resentment towards my mother for various reasons, some warranted, some utterly imaginary.

One thing I feel I should correct, though, was that when we were all back in Phoenix, the family did not notice her being overly snarky to ME. She was being hostile and belligerent towards EVERYONE. More my older sister and me than the rest of the family, but we were not the only ones to get on her bad side.

One would think, as my family did, that with her life going so well, she would have mellowed out a bit and not been so quick to spark. She has always had a quick temper, mind you, but when she was married, she seemed to mellow out (for her), and things were (relatively) peaceful on that front. She wasn't even all that bad in January 2011 when she was in Phoenix, after her divorce. But here she was, with Mr. Wonderful in tow (that name is not sarcastic...dude seems pretty cool), and yet she somehow managed to outbitch The Bitch of the family, my older sister. Not just in my opinion, as I said, but in the collective opinion of myself, my older sister, my mother, and my stepfather. And I think my older sister's boyfriend Hockey Guy agreed, but I'm not certain of that. For obvious reasons I never broached the subject with Mr. Wonderful.

[Bella_Vixen]

Actually, Bella, you're mistaken. I asked a question pertaining to her post, THEN oohed and aahed after being rebuked for asking the wrong question, and/or not oohing and aahing to begin with.

Either way, she was hostile.

[MoonCat]

I'm going to make a wild guess here and suggest that she just doesn't know how to be happy. She's subconsciously trying to torpedo her own happiness because she's more comfortable being grumpy and irritable than being relaxed and content.

Amateur psychologist signing off now...