You are so fired. And YOU? You really are fired!

[bankworking]

Funny thing about working with loans, especially home equity loans where every single application requires proof of income.

You start to recognize what the paystubs of the regular employers in the area look like.

...

So we get a home equity loan app. According to the app, customer works for a Company that has a pretty decent sized job force in the area with a number of nice paying jobs. Makes decent pay herself and the app is approved. I give her a phone call to go over the approval but have to leave a voice message. Customer comes into the branch. (I am back office now, so I only deal with the customers via phone and email now). So, I let the Loan Rep who the customer is sitting down with know the basics, what everything will cost, fact that we need proof of income, etc.

Customer says she has the business card for her manager and asks if Loan Rep can just call to get proof of income. Why not? Loan Rep goes ahead and calls, and Manager verbally verifies employment, but we let both Manager and Customer know we need actual paystubs and a W-2. Can fax 'em, e-mail 'em, bring them in, however, but we need to have them.

Couple of days later, appraisal is in process and Customer comes back in to the branch to the same Loan Rep with a W-2 from last year and a couple of paystubs, as requested. Paystubs show that customer is making more than she did on last year's W-2. This happens, promotions and all.

But the Loan Rep sends me this e-mail along with the proof of income.

See, remember how I said we start to get to know what certain company paystubs look like? These... they're the wrong color.

They look correct. Proper paystubs. All the right numbers and withholding fields and taxes that you would expect to see. Just... the wrong color. And... not... right. In fact, the paystubs say they are coming from the company, like the company put them together, but doesn't that company use Payroll Management to handle their payroll?

So we decide to do a little investigation. Do an EFT search on Company's direct deposits coming into the bank to get their details from a source we trust. Do a check image search to find a physical check from that company cashed at our bank. Sure enough, the check is processed by Payroll Manager, instead of the company themself. And isn't THAT interesting... when you look at the direct deposit history, apparently Company only switched to Payroll Manager around 6 months ago.

So, we decide to bring our concerns to Fraud.

Fraud contacts Company's HR.

Turns out Cusotomer used to work for Company... before she was fired.... about nine months ago.

And those "paystubs" she brought in look awfully similar to what Company's paychecks used to look like.

But it gets better.

Remember that "manager" whose business card Customer brought in to try to verify her employment at the start? Turns out Manager DOES still work for Company. And Manager was the one who Loan Rep spoke with, who "verified" Customer's employment. On a recorded line.

So, the call gets pulled, the copy of the business card (which Loan Rep kept) gets pulled and that gets sent to Fraud, who passes it all along to Company's HR.

So, the loan app is just a little denied now.
Customer's account is locked down by Fraud, all services revoked, pending Customer being kicked out of the bank. She'll probably get to withdraw the funds, or get a check mailed to her, once they verify all recent deposits are valid. Probably won't be prosecuted since there is no loss involved. If she'd managed to actually get the loan, it'd be a different story.

But Customer's friend, Manager, is having Company's HR put a case against her. We don't get the details there, but from the information their HR asked us to provide, our Fraud has no doubt that Manager is out a job.


Stupid people are stupid...

[seigus]

Must be a pretty damned good friend to put your job on the line for them. Damned good.
Stupid people ARE stupid, indeed.

[South Texan]

"And why did you leave your last employer?"

"Oh, they got all upset just because I tried to help a former employee get a loan by telling a 'little white lie' to the bank that she still was employed. Can you believe they tried to say it was fraud? I still cannot believe how unfeeling people can be just because you want to help out a friend."

[eltf177]

I think this is just about the most perfect case of Professional Darwinism I have ever seen...

[panamared]

But Customer's friend, Manager, is having Company's HR put a case against her. We don't get the details there, but from the information their HR asked us to provide, our Fraud has no doubt that Manager is out a job.

This needs to happen to a lot more SC's. Those who are racist or sexist should have their experiences recorded and posted online in the hopes that it will come back to wherever they work, so that a subsequent protest against the company will result in that person losing their job.

Then we can all go party!

[Limescale]

See, remember how I said we start to get to know what certain company paystubs look like? These... they're the wrong color.

Oh my, I actually worried this would cause me problems when I was sorting out a car loan some years back. Worked for a company that couldn't seem to decide what color paper the pay stubs should be printed on, meaning that some weeks we'd get plain white, then the following weeks it'd be pink, yellow, blue, orange, green and so on.

When I went to the bank I was swearing up and down that the rainbow of pay stubs I brought with me were genuine and that we had some really indecisive management.

They mercifully told me it was all good and I was overthinking things, as I often tend to do.

[Kit-Ginevra]

"And why did you leave your last employer?"

"Oh, they got all upset just because I tried to help a former employee get a loan by telling a 'little white lie' to the bank that she still was employed. Can you believe they tried to say it was fraud? I still cannot believe how unfeeling people can be just because you want to help out a friend."

or...as reported in the company newsletter 'leaving to pursue exciting new opportunities' ...

[Argabarga]

It's like a weird Oprah episode.

You get fired!

And YOU get fired!

And you, and you, and you.....

[bankworking]

Oh my, I actually worried this would cause me problems when I was sorting out a car loan some years back. Worked for a company that couldn't seem to decide what color paper the pay stubs should be printed on, meaning that some weeks we'd get plain white, then the following weeks it'd be pink, yellow, blue, orange, green and so on.

When I went to the bank I was swearing up and down that the rainbow of pay stubs I brought with me were genuine and that we had some really indecisive management.

They mercifully told me it was all good and I was overthinking things, as I often tend to do.

Nah, cashing a check doesn't care too much about a payroll check looking a bit different. A Cashier's Check or Money Order looking wrong is a huge red-flag, but a payroll check is most likely good. Not 100%, but most of the times when a payroll check is bad, it's a small time employer who forgot to fund the payroll account rather than fraud. (Or someone trying to deposit their check "receipt" the first time after their direct deposit starts.) If you have a good account, you probably aren't faking your paycheck. If you are... you soon won't have a good account.

Check cashing issues is more about trying to catch checks from people trying to scam you or just check amounts too high of risk for your account history. Or an usually large number of checks, if it is you pulling the fraud and you're trying to get a lot through before they start bouncing.

Proof of income is a bit more stringent, especially when the loans get into the tens (or hundreds) of thousands...

[Argus]

They mercifully told me it was all good and I was overthinking things, as I often tend to do.

I think I've seen some "know your customer" initiatives over the years. Perhaps they had noticed the rainbow pay stubs.

One dramatic example of a bank knowing its customers involved a co-worker who was in the habit of spelling 50 as "fivty". He once got a phone call from his bank about a suspicious check drawn on his account: His wife looking over his shoulder had insisted that he write it as "fifty" on the spelled-out amount line.

or...as reported in the company newsletter 'leaving to pursue exciting new opportunities' ...

Or not: http://dilbert.com/strip/1994-01-07

[sirwired]

I guess SC's have a propensity to be lazy, as none of those documents are difficult to forge, especially since most of them also have electronic equivalents these days. Frankly, I'm surprised more fraud doesn't happen; it'd only be spotted if I was a stupid enough fraudster to get a mortgage from my own bank (so they could pull my records themselves) and/or got a tax transcript direct from the IRS.

That said, my employer does automated electronic employment and income verification, and there'd be a pretty high risk the underwriter would know that already.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

Heh, the company newsletter thing reminded me of the WWE thing where they almost always wish outgoing talent, regardless of reason for their departure "well in all their future endeavors."

They've actually even used it as an inside joke in storylines before.

[protege]

I think I've seen some "know your customer" initiatives over the years.

I've seen quite a few of those. I work for a brokerage, and even though I don't open accounts, I have had to take the continuing education classes and tests. Most deal with money laundering and fraud. Basically, if the customer is evasive, cannot provide verification of things, you're not supposed to open the account. Most people don't want to risk losing their securities license, possibly their job, and having the incident(s) follow them throughout the rest of their careers.

[Geek King]

or...as reported in the company newsletter 'leaving to pursue exciting new opportunities' ...

Heh. The last boss I had that "left to pursue new opportunities" did so after a several-month investigation of mishandling government housing funds. No charges filed, but there was apparently a LOT of hanky-panky going on with special awards and bonuses. You know its never good when the government auditor comes to IT and asks for the last six months of someone's emails.

[taxguykarl]

Ah yes, the different pay stub formats. At my workplace, the stubs for overtime and straight time were different when Mrs. TGK & I applied for our first mortgage. I had to get the payroll director to write a letter to the bank underwriter to explain that. Good thing he owed me a favor or two.