Doctor Who Discussion [Spoiler Zone!]

[Jay 2K Winger]

Everyone's favorite time-traveling Time Lord is back!

Freshly regenerated into the form of Peter Capaldi, the Doctor has to try to discover what his new incarnation is like as a person.


THERE WILL BE SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! NO NEED TO SPOILER-HIDE ANYTHING!

Questions after "Deep Breath"
= What is the Promised Land/Paradise/Heaven?
= Who gave Clara the Doctor's number? Who placed the ad in the newspaper?
= Who is Missy?

My theory about question 2 is that Missy passed out that information. As for who Missy is, I think she is The Master, escaped from Gallifrey and regenerated once again. The Promised Land is inside Missy/The Master's TARDIS.

[Jester]

My impressions of the first Twelve episode:

I don't know yet if I like or dislike Capaldi. He was very, very confused. And yes, he's supposed to be, but he is far more confused and confusing than either Ten or Eleven were in their first episodes.

Clara and the other companions were typically brilliant.

My bigger problem with the Deep Breath than Twelve's confusion was the script's confusion. The whole story seemed muddled and directionless. Basically, it was the polar opposite of a brilliant story like, say, Blink. And it lacked the dynamic of The Eleventh Hour or The Christmas Invasion, Eleven's and Ten's first episodes, respectively.

It just fell flat to me. I hope it picks up. I really do.

[Kheldarson]

I think I like Capaldi, but I'm real tired of Moffat. I kept feeling like saying "yes, we get it" the whole way through.

And absolutely hated the way they resolved the issue between Clara and the Doctor. I'm sorry, why couldn't the new incarnation have found a way to convince her over having a callback? It undermined the new character!

Other than that, it was OK. But I'm not completely sold on it yet.

[KabeRinnaul]

Common theory is that Missy was somehow River Song.

I'm convinced the reality will actually be stupider than that.

Though the Missy=Mistress=Master argument isn't too unreasonable to me.

Throughout the whole thing, I couldn't help but feel they were trying to make Capaldi into "Smith but with grey hair". For almost the entire episode, everything that 12 did, I could easily see 11 doing. The worst there was the final scene between Clara and the Doctor, as they walked off on the sidewalk. It sounded exactly like Amy and 11 talking, and gave the impression Moffat just wanted to bring them back again.

There were two scenes I really liked. First, Vastra casually trying to get Clara to take her clothes off. That was great.

Second, the Doctor confronting the Half-Faced Man. That scene with the line "I have the horrible feeling I'm gonna have to kill you" and offering the drink. Capaldi owned that scene and made the Doctor his more than anywhere else in the episode.

[mjr]

Not really being interested in Doctor Who until fairly recently, I don't know a lot of the "back story" for the characters.

Who was the green lizard-looking lady? What was her function? Were the half-face man and the robot people just the Cybermen trying to look "human" or something? Who was the fat, squat, melted-piece-of-chocolate looking dude?

One line made me giggle. It was when The Doctor was in the alley, and he was looking in the mirror and complaining about his face ("Why this face??") and he figured out he was Scottish (I think it was), and said something like, "That means I can complain about everything!"

And his whole, "That's not the question. The real question is..."

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

My wife and I briefly discussed what we thought happened to the half-faced man. We were wondering if he jumped, or if The Doctor actually did kill him by pushing him.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

[Kheldarson]

Not really being interested in Doctor Who until fairly recently, I don't know a lot of the "back story" for the characters.

Who was the green lizard-looking lady? What was her function?

That's Vastra. She's an ancient dinosaur/reptilian race that the Doctor faced and came to a compromise with. She's helping prepare for the day the rest of her race returns, per agreement.

Were the half-face man and the robot people just the Cybermen trying to look "human" or something?

No. There's an episode in Tennant's run where they were in a ship that was keeping itself alive by harvesting parts from people. This is the same type of ship/scenario.

Who was the fat, squat, melted-piece-of-chocolate looking dude?

That's Strax. He's a Sontaran who's paying a debt off to the Doctor. So he's no longer a warrior but a Nurse.

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

More than likely.

[Jester]

And absolutely hated the way they resolved the issue between Clara and the Doctor. I'm sorry, why couldn't the new incarnation have found a way to convince her over having a callback? It undermined the new character!

Completely agree. Ten won over Rose on his own. Eleven never had any old companions to win over. Twelve had to rely on Eleven? And just what in The Doctor's history of regenerations would lead him to think that that would be necessary?

Common theory is that Missy was somehow River Song.

There were definitely some River-esque qualities about her personality.

The worst there was the final scene between Clara and the Doctor, as they walked off on the sidewalk. It sounded exactly like Amy and 11 talking, and gave the impression Moffat just wanted to bring them back again.

I didn't hear Amy in that, but I can see the Eleven side. And Moffat tipped his hand about it when he had Twelve mutter "At times like this I miss Amy." Funny, I admit, but really? Too bad for Moffat Amy is off fighting the Guardians of the Galaxy.

Second, the Doctor confronting the Half-Faced Man. That scene with the line "I have the horrible feeling I'm gonna have to kill you" and offering the drink. Capaldi owned that scene and made the Doctor his more than anywhere else in the episode.

Definitely his strongest scene, and where I thought at the time that Twelve was finally "waking up" and coming into his own as The Doctor. And then he reverted back to being confused and needy. Ugh.

It was when The Doctor was in the alley...

His other best scene. Utterly hilarious, the whole thing.

And apparently now The Doctor can speak dinosaur...

Nothing new there. He can speak baby, too. This part didn't surprise me so much.

And one thing we couldn't figure out was when the half-faced robot guy was in Heaven/Paradise, the lady there mentioned "my boyfriend". Was she referencing The Doctor there?

Almost certainly. And this has nothing to do with any great insight into the show on my part. It's just that she actually asked if Half Face jumped, or if her "boyfriend" threw him. Pretty much a dead on reference to The Doctor, wouldn't you say?

[firecat88]

Heaven/Paradise looked suspiciously like the planet that the Doctor, Amy, and Rory visited in 'The Girl Who Waited'. I don't know if they're going somewhere with that or if they just recycled the set and hoped no one would notice.

Also, I am glad that they very bluntly established the 'I am not your boyfriend' thing between 12 and Clara. As for 12 himself, I very much already like him. The eyebrow rant was hilarious (actually, like Jester said, that whole entire alley scene was brilliant). Veeeeeery curious to see where he'll go from here. And who his next companion will be since apparently Coleman is leaving the show after Christmas.

[Jay 2K Winger]

I agree that Capaldi is still finding his feet with Twelve, and bear in mind also that this is Twelve almost immediately after regeneration, when the Doctor is always more manic/insane/confused than ever. When Nine became Ten, we missed out on some of that, because he was mostly comatose for the duration of his debut episode, and even after he settled down a bit to confront the Sycorax, he expressed some doubts/confusion about his new self.

And when Ten became Eleven, there was some of that strange behavior as well, but it seems like Eleven intentionally held back some of it, because the first person he met after regenerating was a scared little girl who needed his help, and he didn't want to frighten her more than she was already. Most of his confusion was expressed then with his getting used to his new tastebuds.


I can see where people are coming from with the whole Missy = River Song angle, except if Missy were River, she wouldn't refer to the Doctor as "my boyfriend." (They got married, remember.)

I've also seen theories elsewhere that Missy is supposed to be some aspect of the TARDIS, perhaps spun off as a result of escaping her own supposed death at Trenzalore, and having developed an obsession with the Doctor. I don't think this is likely, however. If Missy were part of the TARDIS, I doubt if she'd call him "my boyfriend." Remember, again, that Neil Gaiman's episode featuring Idris was called "The Doctor's Wife." And even then, she called him "my thief." I suppose, of course, in her Yandere obsession, she might think he's her boyfriend, but, as I said, I'm not sure I believe this theory.

[Kheldarson]

I can see where people are coming from with the whole Missy = River Song angle, except if Missy were River, she wouldn't refer to the Doctor as "my boyfriend." (They got married, remember.)

Would depend on where she is chronologically and what her game is, wouldn't it?

Either way, she's probably going to hit the same character archetype as River because Moffat doesn't seem capable of helping himself there >.<

I've also seen theories elsewhere that Missy is supposed to be some aspect of the TARDIS, perhaps spun off as a result of escaping her own supposed death at Trenzalore, and having developed an obsession with the Doctor. I don't think this is likely, however. If Missy were part of the TARDIS, I doubt if she'd call him "my boyfriend." Remember, again, that Neil Gaiman's episode featuring Idris was called "The Doctor's Wife." And even then, she called him "my thief." I suppose, of course, in her Yandere obsession, she might think he's her boyfriend, but, as I said, I'm not sure I believe this theory.

That's an interesting theory though.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Would depend on where she is chronologically and what her game is, wouldn't it?

I'd agree, but I think it's been solidly established that River's regenerations went thus:

Baby Melody/1969 Girl in Spacesuit -> Mels -> River Song

And then she used up all of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life.

Either way, she's probably going to hit the same character archetype as River because Moffat doesn't seem capable of helping himself there >.<

I agree that Moffat seems incapable of letting go. River's story is pretty neatly wrapped up, I think, following "The Wedding of River Song." The mystery of who she is was answered, and after "The Time of the Doctor," even the mystery of The Silence were was answered. (And let's not even touch on the fact that Tasha Lem from the same episode is basically Pope River Song.)

[Stormraven]

My own theory about who gave Clara the telephone #, and who ran the ad is Clara herself. Remember, she's in every one of his timelines - and she has to be, or he doesn't continue, so she makes sure they meet, then makes sure she's there to help him through his regen.

As for Missy, I've seen many competing theories. Currently, in my mind, the Master is leading, as Missy could be a hidden form of 'Mistress', but I don't think we have nearly enough evidence yet.

[Sapphire Silk]

That's Vastra. She's an ancient dinosaur/reptilian race that the Doctor faced and came to a compromise with. She's helping prepare for the day the rest of her race returns, per agreement.

The Silurians. Who won't reappear for another 150 years at the least. She's married to Jenny Flint, the maid. I LOVE their dynamic, and this episode didn't disappoint.

That's Strax. He's a Sontaran who's paying a debt off to the Doctor. So he's no longer a warrior but a Nurse.

Right. He was killed at Demon's Run, but Vastra brought him back to life. His brains are a bit more scrambled even for a Sontaran. I love his dynamic, too. Makes the show very interesting.

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

Right. And it affects anyone who travels with the Doctor. That's why his Companions always understand the languages of the people they visit. One of 10's companions (the white dumpy one, can't remember her name), when they visted Pompeii, she tried speaking to the Romans in Latin . . . they thought she was speaking Celtic.

I'd agree, but I think it's been solidly established that River's regenerations went thus:

Baby Melody/1969 Girl in Spacesuit -> Mels -> River Song

And then she used up all of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life.

Let me add, River is now an electronic being in the Library Database. She was able to project herself to Trenzalore via Clara, but the Doctor was able to see her and communicate with her. There's a hint she's not quite done with the Doctor, which is totally cool to me. River Song is one of my favorite characters ever!

(And let's not even touch on the fact that Tasha Lem from the same episode is basically Pope River Song.)

How do you figure that?


As for 12, I cautiously like him. He wasn't the instant hit Matt Smith was with me. His behaviors don't seem unusual for a Doctor as he goes through the regeneration and stabilizes.

I'm not too happy with Clara's reaction to this. She knows all about the Doctor's regeneration process and she's been watching the Doctor for centuries through all his regenerations. So her reaction to 12 doesn't make any sense to me, and I think she's being rather pissy about the whole thing. A shame, I actually like Clara (but I miss Amy and Rory).

[KabeRinnaul]

One of 10's companions (the white dumpy one, can't remember her name), when they visted Pompeii, she tried speaking to the Romans in Latin . . . they thought she was speaking Celtic.

That was Donna, my pick for best of the modern companions (Jack doesn't really count). They thought she was speaking Celtic because she wasn't speaking Latin properly, but instead quoting a famous line (in this case, "Veni, vidi, vici") and mangling the pronunciation.

If she'd actually been fluent in Latin and was actually trying to communicate something, they'd probably find her speech very heavily accented, but understandable.

[Javarod]

And baby The TARDIS has a translation function.

A moot point, i mean the Doctor has already demonstrated that he speaks horse and baby, why should dinosaur be surprising?