What part of "unleavened" don't you understand?

[wolfie]

Was at the grocery store to get matzos (need for bread that won't go moldy to keep in my truck - at this time of year there are good deals on it, and I'm one of the tartan-clad Goyem with a reputation for thrift). Another customer was looking at various packages, and clearly not finding what she wanted. I asked what she was looking for, and she said she wanted salted matzos. There was ONE SKU on the shelf that listed salt - they were gluten-free, and clearly stated on the package "not a suitable replacement for seder matzos".

While salt is not an actual leavening agent, my understanding of microbiology is that yeast like to have a bit of it in their diet, which would make it undesirable in baked goods which MUST NOT be leavened. The other customer said that she had seen salted matzos elsewhere - I suggested that those might have been "everyday Kosher", but not the "heavy duty" Passover Kosher.

Is the "helps with leavening, even though it doesn't produce gas directly" bit the reason why matzos containing salt are a bit hard to find this time of year?

[icmedia]

Actually, salt is only an integral part of the reaction with doughs leavened with yeast, but not in the way you're thinking. Yeast feeds on the sugars in the mix, creating carbon dioxide as a by-product, which makes the dough rise (it's actually the same basic process as beers or wines). However, yeast won't stop themselves and will keep eating the sugar, emitting CO2, until the dough is a big sticky mess. Salt is counterproductive; it is toxic to the yeast, and slowly kills them. As the yeast die, less CO2 is emitted, and it evens out the process. Too much sugar, and the dough will rise too much. Too much salt, and you'll have a flat, dense blob.

Hope that wasn't too long, lol-I'm a former chef and baker, as well as having a lot of experience with pizza dough. So, I tend to ramble when it's about food

[CoffeeMonkey]

Here's my guess: It's not the salt. It's just a coincidence that they only carried one kind of salted matzoh, and that kind of matzoh is not suitable for Passover.

So I consulted THE GOOGLE, and found this explanation for the difference between Passover and not-Passover matzoh. http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passo...lar-Matzah.htm

Summary: Regular kosher flour is monitored from the time of milling to the time of baking to ensure that it does not get wet and start to ferment. Passover kosher flour is monitored from the time of HARVEST. Basically, it's heightened scrutiny.

This makes good sense, because the absence of commercial yeast in a product does not mean that there there is NO yeast. Wild yeast spores are everywhere, and one of the places that they love to hang out is on grains. If they have enough moisture to do their thing, they will start the fermentation process. That is, in fact, how old school bread was made. If there wasn't a piece of yesterday's dough left over to get the process going, a starter would be made that cultivates wild yeast. The starter can be saved indefinitely: it's fed every day with flour and water, then a portion removed to make the day's dough, and the rest saved. Classic San Francisco sourdough is made with a starter that's over 150 years old.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I don't do the Jewish stuff on the air!

Ixnay on the oo-jay! Ugh, just roll the cartoon.

[Waggy6]

You can also add the that the complication of matzo that is kosher for passover but not the actual sedar itself. You can eat Egg Matzo for example on passover but it cannot be used during the actual sedar. For that you need the plain old water and flour recipe.

[MoonCat]

I don't do the Jewish stuff on the air!

Ixnay on the oo-jay! Ugh, just roll the cartoon.

You got it, Krusty!

[wolfie]

So I consulted THE GOOGLE, and found this explanation for the difference between Passover and not-Passover matzoh. http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passo...lar-Matzah.htm

Summary: Regular kosher flour is monitored from the time of milling to the time of baking to ensure that it does not get wet and start to ferment. Passover kosher flour is monitored from the time of HARVEST. Basically, it's heightened scrutiny.

Does this apply only to flour, or to grain products in general? If the latter, it might explain why "Kosher for Passover" soda uses real sugar instead of HFCS. Since HFCS comes from corn, it could be classed as a grain product (with cane or beet sugar being classed otherwise due to its source, and not needing to be monitored from point of harvest). Instead of being banned due to its nature, it could be that there is no source of HFCS that is under church supervision from the time of harvest, but if there were, then that particular HFCS would be usable in "Kosher for Passover" soda. Anyone familiar with the workings of Kosher rules who can tell me if this is the case?

[CoffeeMonkey]

I honestly don't know, but it seems a reasonable guess to me, except for one thing. My admittedly limited understanding of keeping Kosher is that the appearance of impropriety must be avoided as well as impropriety itself, so that a good example is set. Hence why the rule of separating meat and dairy comes from "do not boil a kid in its mother's milk," but you still can't have a milkshake with your chicken nuggets, because someone observing you might mistake it for goat or beef nuggets.

Note: I am not Jewish, nor am I a scholar, so I could be entirely wrong. This is how it was explained to me.

[wolfie]

I honestly don't know, but it seems a reasonable guess to me, except for one thing. My admittedly limited understanding of keeping Kosher is that the appearance of impropriety must be avoided as well as impropriety itself, so that a good example is set.

Which shows that in writing "The R Strain", Harry Turtledove didn't do his research. Premise: researchers had produced a genetically modified (NOT spliced in from another species - this was specifically mentioned, because the "crossbreed" effect would have made it non-Kosher due to mixing 2 types of animal) pig that was a ruminant. This was done in order to improve the efficiency of its digestive tract in order to provide a meat source for marginal regions. Someone asked if, since this animal "chewed its cud", would the meat be able to be Kosher. After (in-story) a number of rabbis had been consulted on this question, the determination was that yes, it could.

If such a development were to be made in real life, the ruling (as a result of "avoiding the appearance of impropriety") would be "It looks like a pig, it oinks like a pig, it wallows in mud like a pig - it's a pig".