Free Speech

[Jay 2K Winger]

This sort of thing is just like some of the Sucktomers I'd get when I worked as FDLP at the wholesale club, checking receipts. The Sucktomers claimed that it was "illegal" and/or "unconstitutional" for me to check their receipt. (And this isn't the place to debate such things.)

I did defuse one Sucktomer by pointing out that "the Fourth Amendment protects you against the government performing illegal search and seizure. <Store> isn't the government." He shut up, and even looked perplexed/stymied that his argument had been turned effectively around on his head. He eventually became quite a pleasant repeat customer.

Another batch of Sucktomers I defused by telling them "Look, if you want to argue the point, contact a lawyer and call our corporate office. I could get fired if I don't check your cart." They weren't happy, but they stopped arguing with me.

[veniteangeli]

Tell your students that they ABSOLUTELY have a right to free speech - but that the right to freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of said free speech.

Then give them all Fs. I mean, you've got freedom of speech too, right? Freedom to hand out Fs to students who don't toe the line?

[Jay 2K Winger]

Quoth veniteangeli

Tell your students that they ABSOLUTELY have a right to free speech - but that the right to freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of said free speech.

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.

[veniteangeli]

Quoth Jay 2K Winger

QFT! Well put, veniteangeli.

*takes a bow* Thank you, thank you. I've been in this argument before, and I will freely admit that I stole that little gem from someone else haha. IIRC the context went something like this:

"I can call you an asshole if I like! I have First Amendment rights! You can't deny me my freedom of speech!"

"I hear what you're saying, and you're right... you do have the right to freedom of speech... but not from the natural consequences of abusing that right in order to be a jackass. So, to that end, here is my rebuttal." *swift kick to the cherries*

[Moosenogger]

I wonder how many blank stares you'd receive if you flat out asked your students, "Am I a government body? Do I work for the government? Am I a government employee, either for the state government or the federal government? No? Then I can't legally infringe upon your first amendment rights. It doesn't work that way. Now, write your damn papers."

Some college students are idiots, and I fear for their children.

[Argabarga]

I'm always amazed at the number of people who lack the ability to discern between Freedom OF Speech vs. Freedom FROM Speech

I don't get accused of that very often, most of my complaints come from a misunderstanding about the legal requirements for an act to be declared "Theft" , usually along the lines of "auto theft" for obvious reasons.

[veniteangeli]

Quoth Argabarga

I'm always amazed at the number of people who lack the ability to discern between Freedom OF Speech vs. Freedom FROM Speech

Wait, what IS the definition of Freedom FROM Speech? Cos I know the other...

[kibbles]

I agree..you're not stopping them. They can write about what they want..they just won't get the mark for writing about the wrong thing. If they are so concerned about the free speech being infringed upon..wouldn't one assume that the mark isn't important to them but about protecting their free speech?

I doubt they would have a response to that.

[Soulstealer]

Quoth veniteangeli

Wait, what IS the definition of Freedom FROM Speech? Cos I know the other...

Well as far as I know there isn't such a law officially except in the classical case of not shouting fire in a crowded theatre. But it would mean that you wouldn't be subjected to some sort of speech from other people. Mind you if it's a constitutional right it would only restrict the government from certain types of speech and not individuals.

[Ironclad Alibi]

Quoth Miss Fatale

My students, though, have decided that everything I do that they don't like violates their free speech.

1. A student said I didn't respect their free speech for taking off points on a paper for spelling and grammar.

2. Several other students have complained that I'm violating their free speech by not allowing them to write about certain topics for their research essays.

Perhaps you should point out to your students that while they consider using improper grammar and spelling, as well choosing certain essay topics, to be within their First Amendment Rights, nowhere in the First Amendment does it guarantee them a good grade for such efforts. To get a good grade, they must follow the guidelines established by the teacher for their essays.

If they disagree, suggest they exercise their rights under the final clause of the First Amendment, "and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."