Wife seems like she doesn't want to be happy.

[Rainman]

Hey all, I feel very strange writing this because I love my wife to death and bitching about her just seems. . . wrong somehow. This is gonna be long so forgive me from the start.

My wife and I have been married for about 4 years, starting when I was in the military. Back then I was one of the few married NCOs and as such as a house off post. Everyone would always come to our place and we were never short of friends and company. Mrs. Rainman was kind of like our pack mother and she loved this.

Since then we moved back to our homestate when I got out of the Army and picked up our old friendships with the people we had left behind. This worked well for me because my old friends had made new ones and as such, I was happily accepted into the fold. Mrs. Rainman was as well and she also picked up her friendships where she had left off and all seemed well.

Over the course of about a year and a half to two years Mrs. Rainman has "lost" most of her friends. One got married and had another baby, another had her first baby around the same time we had RainmanJunior, and her single friends apparently just stopped inviting her to things. Now whenever I tell her I am going to do something with my friends (this is MAYBE once a week, usually more like 2 to 3 times a month due to my work and school schedule) I inevitably hear about how she is "being left behind again" or she is "just so lonely, she has no one but me."

Now I love my wife with all my heart but whenever I look at this objectively, something seems wrong. She was hanging out with her married friend tons and one day it just kinda stopped, same with her friend who had her first baby. You would think these are two girls she would spend MORE time with due to having babies close together but the exact opposite has occured. She and her single friends had a standing "ladies night" every week and then it just stopped too very suddenly, even when I offered to stay home with RainmanJunior on those nights. Now my wife insists that these people all just abandoned her, or would make plans and just forget about calling her. I just find it VERY odd that suddenly all these people would just cut her out of their lives like that because these women do not all know eachother, so its not like they could plan this or something. It just doesnt make sense to me at all.

As far as I go, I feel like I am being made to feel bad for having friends! Whenever I tell her that Im doing this or that with this person or that person, its followed by a big sigh and some passive aggresive statement about how "it must be nice to have people call you." or "I can't remember the last time anyone wanted to hang out with me." At first I just offered a shoulder to cry on, I don't mind someone venting and I wanted to be a supportive husband. After awhile though venting gets old because no steps are being taken to solve the problem, I can only listen to someone complain for so long. EVERY solution I come up with is shot down, citing one reason or another why its simply impossible. It really seems to me like she would rather just keep complaining and feeling sorry for herself then actually fixing this.

So what am I supposed to do people? There is no way in hell I would ever leave her over this or anything crazy like that, but I am unhappy at being made to feel guilty about having friends. She wont do anything to help herself but she wont stop talking about how "she will just have to get used to being lonely." I am just very concerned because this behavior is getting worse and I feel like SOMETHING has to be done, I just dont know what.

[Aethian]

I think it's time to talk to her about depression. I actually have talked to a former military wife who just couldn't adapt to not being a military wife anymore. It was the clubs, the needing to keep things scheduled, the fact that their were others who knew what it was like for the spouse to not be home at times. Thankfully she isn't a military wife due to him retiring and she had 20+ years of being the new wife to becoming the old pro. And they still live close enough to a base that she can still be a "grandmother" to the new wives. But anyhoo...depression...she could be getting cut out as well as cutting people out.

[AnaKhouri]

I am in no way a psychologist, but I agree it is odd everyone would suddenly abandon her like that. Perhaps she pushed them away unconsciously and perceives it as being dumped? Maybe she is even depressed or has lingering postpartum depression.

She shouldn't make you feel bad for going out sometimes. Can you suggest that she should get out more herself? If you get your son involved in kid stuff (sports, classes, library storytime- there are tons of free/cheap stuff to do with small kids) she can get out of the house, meet other parents and hopefully strike up some friendships. Joining the YMCA was great for us because not only are there free/cheap classes for my son to take, but I can get away from him a bit (I'm a SaHM) and work out, which makes me happy. Endorphins and all. Or if you can find a babysitter for the kid one night, maybe get together with your friends and their wives, maybe she'll hit it off with one of the wives. That worked for me too.

Does she have any outside interests? For instance I'm a writer so so I attend a feedback group twice a month and have made friends that way.

In the end all you can do is encourage her though, you can't make her take action. If she shoots down all your suggestions, perhaps you could couch it in terms of your kid: "I think Baby Rainman would enjoy going to the library storytime/taking classes at the Y/playing with other kids if you join a moms' group."

How would she respond if you suggest she see a therapist? If she had some falling-out with her friends she might feel more comfortable talking to a stranger about it, and if she's having some depression problems they could help there too.

[Pixilated]

My first thought was similar ... it's very odd that all her friends "dumped" her almost simultaneously. AnaKhouri has a good point -- and I can tell you I've done it myself in the past, and my mother has done it for most of the latter half of her life: you reject people, blow them off, push them away, and then wonder why you're sitting there staring at the walls everyday.

You said she has shot down your suggestions; I'm just wondering if one of your suggestions was, "Have you tried calling them?" Because if she has given them the impression that she wants them to piss off, they would understandably be reluctant to keep bugging her to go out with them.

The other suggestions were very good too ... especially the one about depression. I've never suffered from it myself but it seems to be like quicksand -- it sucks you in and you can't get out on your own.

Does she have family nearby who could help?

Ultimately, though, it's also true that she has to be the one to take action.

[MoonCat]

My mom used to be something like that. She'd say things like "I wish I could go out like you girls do" but when we'd ask her to go out, she'd decline. Now and then when we talked her into it, she'd end up really happy that she'd gone out. As it turned out, she was depressed, but all our suggestions for how to get out and make friends were ignored. She had to hear it from someone else and then she acted on the suggestion (joined a senior center).

Definitely look into depression. If you can get her to talk to her regular doc about this, he or she can maybe recommend a group, or a therapist, or what have you. Keep in mind, your wife may say she doesn't need counseling. Many depressed people do that.

Another thing you might try is making a special date with her. Just the two of you. Go out someplace special. She may also feel like she's coming second to your friends, even though from what you said, that's not really the case, but she may need a little reminding. If you can do this once or twice a month (doesn't have to be a real expensive date, just something she enjoys), it might lift her spirits.

Tell her how much you love her and want her to be happy. Encourage her to help you understand what's going on. Sometimes women have to be coaxed into explaining what's wrong. If she won't tell you, does she have a sister who might be able to get some answers? Or her mom?

[auntiem]

IMO - most men and women make friends much differently.
I'll explain how we work and maybe something will strike a chord:
BG: my SO and I have been together 14+ years
My SO makes friends easily and is very proactive in keeping those friendships and is still friends with people he knew in HS. I on the other hand, am socially lazy. Don't get me wrong, I have friends that I adore it just doesn't occur to me to keep in constant contact - this is why I have few female friends (they don't seem to tolerate that kind of behavior much) my male friends are totally fine with random bursts of sociability at unpredictable times. Honestly, if it wasn't for my SO, aside from my oldest buddies, I would be a hermit. I am glad for the times he goes out with his friends because then I have the house to my hermit little self. Your wife however, does not – what does she do when you are gone? Is she home with the kid doing housework / kid sitting duty? If that is true, then I think for every hour you spend out with your buddies you should return the favor by doing the same while she goes out to do whatever she wants to – even if it is to wander the park for 4 hours. It is hard to explain to people who have lots of friends that personal space/ friend time have the same power. It annoys me no end when my SO asks me what I’ve done while he is out with friends – ‘cause for one, it sounds lame to admit that I played with the cat for an hour, watched a “chick flick” then went for a walk and for two, how is it really his biz, ‘cause I had fun and he had fun – no harm no foul.
We have "resolved" these issues in that my SO is our “social director” in that he arranges most of our social engagements with couple friends - except for the few long term friends that pre-date our relationship – those I am the “social director” of.
I noticed you mentioned that in the first years of your relationship that the social activity occurred at your house – is that correct? Perhaps it is time to adapt the Pacific NW “social season” – BBQs – to your social schedule. Everyone has fun, kids can interact with various people taking responsibility and you get to meet lots of people at least a few times during the “season”. Around here, even “hermits” go social in the summer.

[ArcticChicken]

IMO - most men and women make friends much differently.

That doesn't sound like a man/woman thing so much as an introvert/extrovert thing. Basically, for an extrovert, hanging out with friends is a time of energy gain, and alone time is an energy loss, where the opposite is true for introverts. It's not that introverts don't like to hang out with people, it's just that it's exhausting.


Rainmain, it sounds to me, too, like your wife might be depressed. Depression is a soul sucking leech, and it's much easier to complain than it is to do anything. Keep in mind that if you don't try, you can't fail. That's the mind set depression puts you in. It's not expressed that consciously, for the most part, but that definitely could be one of the reasons she shoots down all your suggestions.

You said that the reason that you don't hang out with your friends that much is your busy work/school schedule. Please keep in mind that if the only time you two are together is when you're exhausted from work or studying, then that doesn't count as time together. I'd be pissed if my BF was making time for his friends and not making time for me.

[thansal]

Rainmain, it sounds to me, too, like your wife might be depressed. Depression is a soul sucking leech, and it's much easier to complain than it is to do anything. Keep in mind that if you don't try, you can't fail. That's the mind set depression puts you in. It's not expressed that consciously, for the most part, but that definitely could be one of the reasons she shoots down all your suggestions.

I'm going to 2nd the depression thing. I lived with depression for a while (and it's still something I deal with on a regular basis), and one of my key things was the loss of friends. sure, I lost some friends due to life moving on (this was in college, it happens), but I lots a lot of them because I was depressed, and instead of reaching out I pulled away. I also lost, for a time, my best friend (who was my GF at the time) due to pulling away and lashing out (and other things, including both of us being teenagers/young 20 somethings).

Obviously, I don't have a PHD or an MD, and I don't have the full story, however, the way you described some of her actions and what has happened simply rang true to my own events, and my own feelings at the time, and this is one possible explanation for the problem.

Wil Wheaton on depression:
http://wilwheaton.net/2012/09/depression-lies/

Much better written then anything I could put together.

[Moirae]

I agree with the depression thing.

I also think that she may want a baby, and feels like she lost friends because they had babies and she doesn't. Not a good reason, granted, but it still may be the case.

There is also the possibility that it's not that you have friends thats the problem. It may be the amount of time you're spending with them. I've been trying to convince my husband to go out with his buddies for years, but he says he doesn't really want to and would rather be spending time with me. This is wonderful and it makes me feel loved and wanted, but I worry that it means he's neglecting the guy thing about him, after all I'm a woman. I love most of the stuff he does and we are very good together, but our relationship is much different than the one he'd have with his buddies.

However, my dad spent almost every night with his friends from the time I was a baby. It caused serious problems with my parents relationship and they divorced when I was a teenager.

The thing is that you are former army. That means that you have spent alot of time around other army members and you probably have a connection with some of them that she can't touch. After all, you've seen and experienced death, and suffering in a way that she can never imagine. She may feel very very left out, and like she can't relate to you. My question to you is whether she stopped hanging out with her friends around the time you got out of the army. That could be an indication right there.

Trust me, you know what the problem is. You just have to think it through.

[Aislin]

I have a friend who went through something similar. She moved to a new city and she had no friends. When I moved here I had known her from high school so we had lunch. She is a stay at home mom but she made friends by joining the food co-op and then a dance group, vollenteering once a week at a childrens museum and taking up helping out with a local nonprofit. She has to put herself out there. She should find something she enjoys and take the risk. I joined my local graphic design group.

[Gizmo]

Depression. I've done this myself. (Apologies in advance: This post will be mostly about me as I have no idea how to fix the issues and I'm hoping something here resonates with someone to help. Its worth reading the italics part below even if you skip the rest.)

I've very much had a no bullshiat year and cut a lot of my connections. The ones I didn't want to cut ended up fraying because of their lives changing. And as much as its nice to 'bond' with female friends over kids/houses/jobs etc. it can be very difficult if you aren't at that milestone in your life. Or if your friends are the 'oh this is easy' types when you are finding it difficult (especially if she feels she isn't accomplishing much when the friend appears to be managing to do so - even if the friend doesn't actually feel that is the case). As a result I've lost 2 of the close friendships this year and they've become rather distant from me. Its also hard to say it to them and I've avoided the conversation with one of them because of it and probably will until their baby is born (when hopefully it won't be an issue anymore. Naive or not... I'm sticking to that for now).

I noticed that this made me do something else: Turn to hubby to 'hang off' of him and make him the one to make and push the friendships/relationships and to suggest/be responsible for the social events that 'we' attended. He was nice and strong (it seemed) so I'd hang on to his coat tails and have him drag me through the social stuff plus be there as an emergency shield. That way if I muck it up it doesn't matter as much as if *I* was responsible for it. And suggestions to gently push me into finding my own feet again were met with denials and excuses - it was just easier.

Its a horrible thing to put on someone else - especially if they don't realise and don't have the tools to deal with it. Its taken me a while to realise I'd lost the confidence to take my own steps and was relying on someone else.

I'm still not completely sure how to break it. Personally I've got on two projects with short deadlines and work driving me onwards with the thoughts that once we reach mid Feb hopefully I'll be better or something else will be there to divert me. (My 'depression' is no where near NHS caring levels to deal with and get help for so thats not an option right now. Plus there isn't really a specific 'cause' for me standing out.).

I'm lucky in that I have one 'drive' that I will never break as it was drilled into me as a child: "If you commit to something you don't let them down through just not doing it. If you suggest something and you start it you follow through and don't flake out." Hence why I have 300ish sq foot of dust sheets to turn into specific hall decorations (to a set theme) and a tribble costume to build by mid Feb. The fact that the people who normally work with me and have the art skills have deserted me this year isn't going to let me fail on this... me with the art skills of a gnat WILL make this work and will make it look good.

I realise these probably aren't healthy ways to deal with it long term btw. But short term they do help me personally

[Seshat]

When you're depressed, it's not that you don't want to be happy. It's that you can't imagine happiness.

You can't imagine anything, ever, possibly making you happy.

Nothing will ever go right, nothing will ever be worthwhile, everything is (depending on your depression) a muddy grey, or a personal hell.

And there's no escape.

That's your perception. It's an illusion, it is, in fact, a delusion. But it's as solid a belief in the mind of the depressed person as the awareness of the ground beneath one's feet.

You can't shake it without shaking the depression.



Okay - that's my experience of depression, and it's not the same for everyone. But it may well be what's happening to your wife.

And for me, it's WHY I need chemical support for therapy to work. The chemicals - the drugs, medications, whatever - shake the 'it's impossible to be happy' delusion enough that I can work with my therapist.


I do NOT, by the way, recommend medication without therapy as a treatment for depression. Even if your depression is purely neurochemical, I firmly believe that a kind of 'physiotherapy for the mind' is vital.
I believe that the 'physio for the mind' gives the patient 'exercises' she can use to help reduce the likelihood of a recurrance, and information about the warning signs that signal a potential recurrance.
I believe that the 'physio for the mind' gives the patient techniques for staying generally healthier mentally, in the same way that physio for the body can give a patient techniques for staying generally healthier physically.

I'm also not advocating permanent therapy. That should be for the patient, therapist and doctor to determine, based on personal needs.
Just as someone with extensive physical trauma may need physio for years, but someone with a broken bone just needs the atrophied muscle rebuilt, different mental-health patients need different levels of mental therapies.


Anyway, Rainy?

The situation you described says to me 'get her to a doctor'. Also 'it sounds on the surface like depression, but IANADoctor'.

[Teysa]

Seshat, that's an excellent description of depression. I don't talk about it much on here, but I do know what it's like to feel that level of despair. To feel that not only will you never be happy but you don't deserve happiness. It's something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Rainman, it sounds like your wife has your love and support. Which is a very good thing. I don't know how things work for former military personnel and their spouses, but would it be possible for your wife to talk to a Chaplain? Maybe something like that would be more comfortable for her.

[Seshat]

Thank you.

And yes, talking to a Chaplain is not a bad idea - many, perhaps even most, religious 'ministers' are therapy-trained, at least minimally. At least enough to recognise when a mental health issue is beyond their personal ability to handle.

And those whose personalities are appropriate to it, often take up some form of 'physio for the mind' training as part of their calling. It's a common aspect of the 'tending to the congregation' avocation a good priest/minister feels.

(I'm not saying that priests/ministers who don't do counselling aren't good - there are a lot of ways to give to the community! Some are teachers at heart, or administrators at heart, and that's fine too.)

Anyway: if it's difficult to get her to help via the medical system, but she's a religious person, the religious system can often help. And it's possible the chaplain would be willing to encourage her to go to the doctor, and to accompany her.

[Hyndis]

I'd second the advice about mixing talk based help with medication based help. I don't mean self medicating, that never turns out well, but rather don't just seek a pill pusher doctor. Find a doctor whom you can also talk to about what is going on.

Both approaches work far better when they are combined than individually.

You could even approach it by starting it up yourself, claim that you've been feeling a bit down (and you have, as if your life partner is unhappy, you're probably not going to be feeling so great about it) and use that as an excuse to go see a doctor together.

That would get her some help, and you can be there supporting her.