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Weird things about Terminator and Terminator 2 I've been thinking about.

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  • Weird things about Terminator and Terminator 2 I've been thinking about.

    First, where does the "timeline" start in The Terminator?

    1. In 1984, Sarah Connor meets Kyle Reese, resulting in the birth of John Connor.
    2. In 2029, John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time 45 years to protect Sarah Connor from the terminator.

    #1 could not have happened without #2, and #2 could not have happened without #1.

    Terminator 2:
    1. Skynet is built based on the technology that was obtained from the destruction of the first terminator (the chip, forearm and hand).
    2. Skynet becomes self-aware in August of 1997
    3. Skynet views humans as a threat, and tries to eliminate them.
    4. Skynet sends a terminator back in time to kill John and Sarah, in 2029, once humans breached its defense grid.
    5. John sends back a protector.
    6. The T800, John, and Sarah destroy Cyberdyne systems, the chip, forearm, and hand, as well as the T1000. Sarah then melts the T800.

    So destroying the tech from the previous terminator would preclude and prevent (or at least heavily delay) the development of Skynet, and thus there would be no need for a terminator, and no need for anyone to be sent back through time. And thus, John Connor wouldn't exist.
    Skilled programmers aren't cheap. Cheap programmers aren't skilled.

  • #2
    Different trouser-legs of time, man.
    It was the History Monks try, trying again...
    I am not an a**hole. I am a hemorrhoid. I irritate a**holes!
    Procrastination: Forward planning to insure there is something to do tomorrow.
    Derails threads faster than a pocket nuke.

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    • #3
      They didn't do a good job of keeping their "universe" straight.

      ETA: Just like the Highlander franchise.
      Life is too short to not eat popcorn.
      Save the Ales!
      Toys for Tots at Rooster's Cafe

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      • #4
        csquared: Not sure what you mean. There's only ever been one Highlander movie...>_> Thus, no chance to screw it all up.
        *random dude* Well, akshually, there were-
        *erickei* Shut up, shut up, shut up...
        "I shall endeavor to exceed your expectations. Let others settle for greatness; I will strive to be superior" - Doctor Octopus (clone)
        "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
        "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)

        "I have always thought that when customers tell you 'I’m never shopping here again,' they view that as a threat, we hear it as a promise, but it always turns out to be a lie." ~ 'AdoptsDEATHsCats', reddit
        Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
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        • #5
          Quoth EricKei View Post
          csquared: Not sure what you mean. There's only ever been one Highlander movie...>_> Thus, no chance to screw it all up.
          Are you saying "There can be only one"?
          Life is too short to not eat popcorn.
          Save the Ales!
          Toys for Tots at Rooster's Cafe

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          • #6
            But, of course
            "I shall endeavor to exceed your expectations. Let others settle for greatness; I will strive to be superior" - Doctor Octopus (clone)
            "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
            "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)

            "I have always thought that when customers tell you 'I’m never shopping here again,' they view that as a threat, we hear it as a promise, but it always turns out to be a lie." ~ 'AdoptsDEATHsCats', reddit
            Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
            "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

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            • #7
              Your mistake is in thinking that movies 2, 3, etc. are sequels. Actually they are different versions of the story, each in a slightly different parallel world.

              This what happens when the script writers never see, or ignore, the previous movies.
              "I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."

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              • #8
                Quoth Ironclad Alibi View Post
                ...This what happens when the script writers never see, or ignore, the previous movies.
                Hollywood: "Oedipus, schmoedipus, just as long as a boy loves his mother!"
                I am not an a**hole. I am a hemorrhoid. I irritate a**holes!
                Procrastination: Forward planning to insure there is something to do tomorrow.
                Derails threads faster than a pocket nuke.

                Comment


                • #9
                  See those headphones on my current avatar? They're really good at blocking sound I heard NUZSSING!
                  "I shall endeavor to exceed your expectations. Let others settle for greatness; I will strive to be superior" - Doctor Octopus (clone)
                  "Retail is a cruel master, and could very well be the most educational time of many people's lives, in its own twisted way." - me
                  "Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down...tell you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens...makes her a home." - Capt. Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)

                  "I have always thought that when customers tell you 'I’m never shopping here again,' they view that as a threat, we hear it as a promise, but it always turns out to be a lie." ~ 'AdoptsDEATHsCats', reddit
                  Acts of Gord – Read it, Learn it, Love it!
                  "Our psychic powers only work if the customer has a mind to read." - me

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                  • #10
                    Quoth mjr View Post
                    So destroying the tech from the previous terminator would preclude and prevent (or at least heavily delay) the development of Skynet, and thus there would be no need for a terminator, and no need for anyone to be sent back through time. And thus, John Connor wouldn't exist.
                    Correct, in theory, destroying all of that equipment should have prevented Skynet from becoming a thing, thus preventing the plot of both movies, and thus preventing John Connor's birth. A paradox however you look at it.

                    This was something that later Terminator movies attempted to address, with Judgment Day being an inevitability, it can be delayed, but not outright stopped. I believe it was implied that with the death of Dyson and the destruction of the chip and cybernetic arm, Cyberdyne's work was slowed considerably, but not stopped. I don't know how they worked around the whole thing about the actual dates and whatnot.

                    There was a trilogy of novels by SM Stirling (Infiltration, Rising Storm, and The Future War) written before T3 came out (and hence made the novels non-canon) that basically explained what happened after T2, and dealt with Skynet sending back infiltrators to make certain its creation would still happen, and to kill the Connors if possible. John and Sarah end up teaming up with a former spec-ops soldier, a man of Austrian descent named Dieter von Rossbach, who unknowingly would serve as the model for the T-800s.
                    PWNADE(TM) - Serve up a glass today! | PWNZER - An act of pwnage so awesome, it's like the victim got hit by a tank.

                    There are only Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse because I choose to walk!

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                    • #11
                      Quoth mjr View Post
                      First, where does the "timeline" start in The Terminator?

                      1. In 1984, Sarah Connor meets Kyle Reese, resulting in the birth of John Connor.
                      2. In 2029, John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time 45 years to protect Sarah Connor from the terminator.

                      #1 could not have happened without #2, and #2 could not have happened without #1.
                      It's not quite a loop. Sarah enters from the past, Kyle enters from the future, John is conceived, Kyle dies 20 years before he's born, John exits the loop in the future, Sarah may or may not live past the end of the loop.



                      Wait, sorry, wrong picture.



                      This may or may not include a split in the timeline. It's possible that this was the "original" way things happened, in which case this is all timeline #1, or else the arrival of Reese and the terminator split the timeline, and the movie happens in timeline #2.

                      Quoth mjr View Post
                      Terminator 2:
                      1. Skynet is built based on the technology that was obtained from the destruction of the first terminator (the chip, forearm and hand).
                      2. Skynet becomes self-aware in August of 1997
                      3. Skynet views humans as a threat, and tries to eliminate them.
                      4. Skynet sends a terminator back in time to kill John and Sarah, in 2029, once humans breached its defense grid.
                      5. John sends back a protector.
                      6. The T800, John, and Sarah destroy Cyberdyne systems, the chip, forearm, and hand, as well as the T1000. Sarah then melts the T800.

                      So destroying the tech from the previous terminator would preclude and prevent (or at least heavily delay) the development of Skynet, and thus there would be no need for a terminator, and no need for anyone to be sent back through time. And thus, John Connor wouldn't exist.
                      Covered in Terminator 3, actually. The US military develops Skynet.

                      My thought is, the timeline splits. There are three versions of 1984: the original timeline, the one with the terminator, and the one from Genisys. The original timeline is where/when Reese comes from, the one with the terminator is where/when the first movie happens, and everything else is its own thing.

                      There are at least 5 timelines:
                      1. "before" T1
                      2. T1 through T4 (Salvation)
                      3. The Sarah Connor Chronicles
                      4. Genisys
                      5. Dark Fate


                      A Youtuber called CorderyFX came up with a theory that the first movie takes place in timeline #3 (#2 in the above list), and goes into some detail. Video is here if you want to watch it.

                      Edit: WatchMojo did a video on the timelines here, released the day before Dark Fate's release.
                      Last edited by Deserted; 09-09-2021, 01:35 AM. Reason: found another video
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                      • #12
                        Maybe it's Multiverse Theory?

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                        • #13
                          OK, now can someone explain something from "Timerider: The Adventure of Lyle Swann"?

                          Lyle has his good luck charm, the medallion from his mother, who got it from his grandmother, who got it from his great-grandmother, who got it from his great-great-grandmother, who stole it from a guy to remember "one incredible night they had together".

                          Lyle travels back in time, meets Claire, they have sex.

                          As the scientists arrive to bring Lyle back to the 80's, Claire steals the medallion from around Lyle's neck, showing that Claire is Lyle's great-great-grandmother and Lyle is his own great-great-grandfather.

                          So, the medallion exists only with a loop of time between 1877 (when Claire took it from Lyle) and 1982-ish (where Lyle was at the beginning of the movie and where he returned).

                          The medallion didn't exist before that time, and not after that time.

                          So who made the medallion? Where did it come from?
                          "Kamala the Ugandan Giant" 1950-2020 • "Bullet" Bob Armstrong 1939-2020 • "Road Warrior Animal" 1960-2020 • "Zeus" Tiny Lister Jr. 1958-2020 • "Hacksaw" Butch Reed 1954-2021 • "New Jack" Jerome Young 1963-2021 • "Mr. Wonderful" Paul Orndorff 1949-2021 • "Beautiful" Bobby Eaton 1958-2021 • Daffney 1975-2021

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                          • #14
                            Quoth El Pollo Guerrera View Post
                            OK, now can someone explain something from "Timerider: The Adventure of Lyle Swann"?

                            ...

                            The medallion didn't exist before that time, and not after that time.

                            So who made the medallion? Where did it come from?
                            You've stumbled upon the Object Loop. It's a type of temporal paradox that sometimes pops up in time travel stories. It feels like a convention that writers like to throw in there for a kind of "hey, isn't this neat?" kind of vibe, but fail to take into consideration the fact that... the object/information/whatever doesn't exist outside of its loop.
                            PWNADE(TM) - Serve up a glass today! | PWNZER - An act of pwnage so awesome, it's like the victim got hit by a tank.

                            There are only Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse because I choose to walk!

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                            • #15
                              Quoth El Pollo Guerrera View Post
                              As the scientists arrive to bring Lyle back to the 80's, Claire steals the medallion from around Lyle's neck, showing that Claire is Lyle's great-great-grandmother and Lyle is his own great-great-grandfather.
                              There was a song about this: I'm My Own Grandpa.
                              "I don't have to be petty. The Universe does that for me."

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