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mjr 09-25-2020 11:56 PM

Interesting Rasslin' opinion I heard
 
I saw a video on YouTube the other day that made an interesting point, and the guy had an interesting opinion on cage matches.

In a standard cage match, the object is to escape the cage. The general premise being that the wrestlers can't escape the ring to run away and keep themselves from losing a match (or to get away from a wrestler that is dominating them, etc...), and it limits outside interference in a match.

The guy in the video, however, posited that escaping the cage is essentially "running away" and not finishing the match. In other words, he said it was "cowardly" to escape the cage, and cage matches should be won by pinfall or submission in the ring.

In a "Hell in a Cell" match or "Elimination Chamber" style match, you have no choice but to win it in the ring. Granted, you're not meant, generally, to be outside the cell or chamber (which is why it has a top enclosure).

But in a cage match, you can simply try to climb out of the ring when you think you're able.

Thoughts?

Arcus 09-27-2020 02:02 AM

Cage matches by the very nature is a different type of thing and shouldn't be held up to the same feeling. The very rules of a cage match add a second way to win. Because everyone has the same goal, everyone inside has to try and stop the others from escaping while trying to escape themselves. A small, but fast guy has a better chance to get out than a much stronger, but slower one thus the only way the big guy can win is to drag the small guy back and pin him. And really, while pinning someone will win the match, the real reason for that is once everyone else is eliminated, the last guy standing would have nothing left to stop him and have all the time he needs to escape.

It's not running away. It's simply a way of guys in different weight classes to have a equal chance to win because of strategy.

Jay 2K Winger 09-27-2020 03:13 AM

Eh, I tend to agree with the opinion that OP described.

The way most booking happens in wrestling, a cage match is usually used because the heel:
  • keeps running away from the face,
  • has his cronies interfere on his behalf,
  • has otherwise taken advantage of outside factors in thwarting the face's efforts to defeat them.

Especially in the case of "keeps running away," having a victory happen because of escaping the cage doesn't fit. Locking the cowardly heel in the cage, where they can't escape the face, that makes more sense.

El Pollo Guerrera 09-27-2020 07:08 AM

The original cage matches weren't 'escape cage' matches, they were the 'final fight' to end a feud, and in a cage so no one else could interfere.

(neat Wiki-fact: first cage match was in 1937)

I read somewhere that it was the WWF that introduced the idea of escaping the cage to win the match, but no clue when.

There are times when escaping the cage works within the match. I have a Toryumon show on DVD with a 5-man cage match, with escape rules until the last 2 are in the cage, and then it's a hair-vs.-hair (or mask) match that must be won by beating the opponent and not escaping.

mjr 09-27-2020 04:59 PM

Quote:

Quoth Jay 2K Winger (Post 1392802)
Eh, I tend to agree with the opinion that OP described.

The way most booking happens in wrestling, a cage match is usually used because the heel:
  • keeps running away from the face,
  • has his cronies interfere on his behalf,
  • has otherwise taken advantage of outside factors in thwarting the face's efforts to defeat them.

Especially in the case of "keeps running away," having a victory happen because of escaping the cage doesn't fit. Locking the cowardly heel in the cage, where they can't escape the face, that makes more sense.

Can "modern" cage matches still be won by pinfall? I saw an old one recently from 1982 that was a WCCW cage match (when the cages were much shorter) that was Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich.

That one had two referees (a "regular" referee, and "Fabulous Freebird" Michael Hayes), for some reason, and you could win it by pinfall. I believe Flair won because Kerry was "knocked out" and couldn't continue the match.

dalesys 09-27-2020 07:49 PM

It's all cagefabe...

mjr 09-27-2020 09:03 PM

Quote:

Quoth dalesys (Post 1392820)
It's all cagefabe...

I see what you did there...:D

El Pollo Guerrera 09-28-2020 08:16 AM

Quote:

Quoth mjr (Post 1392817)
Can "modern" cage matches still be won by pinfall? I saw an old one recently from 1982 that was a WCCW cage match (when the cages were much shorter) that was Ric Flair vs Kerry Von Erich.

That one had two referees (a "regular" referee, and "Fabulous Freebird" Michael Hayes), for some reason, and you could win it by pinfall. I believe Flair won because Kerry was "knocked out" and couldn't continue the match.

I guess it depends on the promoters who set up the match.

Was that the match where Hayes slams the door on Flair's head so Kerry could win, and Kerry refused to cheat?

mjr 09-28-2020 11:07 AM

Quote:

Quoth El Pollo Guerrera (Post 1392829)
I guess it depends on the promoters who set up the match.

Was that the match where Hayes slams the door on Flair's head so Kerry could win, and Kerry refused to cheat?

I put a link to the match in the "Check It Out" forum.

Titled: "Rasslin' Cage Match from 1982 -- Kerry Von Erich vs Ric Flair"

El Pollo Guerrera 09-29-2020 07:49 AM

Saw it and replied, thank you.


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