The Sochi Olympics

[Jay 2K Winger]

I think you overestimate our 'Canadian niceness'. Hockey. Enough said.

Canadians are polite until you insult their national sport.

I did annoy several Canadians on another board a couple of years ago, razzing them about Canada Day and how it's just us Americans letting Canada think they're a real country so the Canucks can celebrate their hockey prowess.

Only, this was just after an American team had won the Stanley Cup, so I followed that up with "...oh wait, what hockey prowess?"

The Canadians just said "Olympic gold medal's good enough for us."

Well played, Canadia, well played.

[lordlundar]

Not much stood out to me other than the U.S. hockey teams playing like professional sports teams from Cleveland.

Ah, you mean that Bronze medal game that was less a game and more of a rout?

Hate to say it, but when it came to medal games, the US teams weren't performing very well. The women essentially threw away their win in the last few minutes and the Men just seemed to give up after their loss to Canada in the semis.

[Jester]

I think you overestimate our 'Canadian niceness'. Hockey. Enough said.

Not nice. Polite. Which y'all are. Unfailingly.

Do you kick ass in hockey? Yes. Will you defend your country's hockey honor? Yes.

That being said, how often do you hear Canadian hockey players or fans talking trash? Some, perhaps, but compared to Americans? Please.

Americans are the unquestioned gold medalists of trash talking. Whether or not they're good at what they're talking trash about.

Not much stood out to me other than the U.S. hockey teams playing like professional sports teams from Cleveland.

Unlike Cleveland teams, the American hockey teams
--were among the favorites.
--had a chance to win it all.
--had fans who weren't from Cleveland.
--have won it all in my lifetime.
--have pleasant memories.
--mostly don't live in horrible rust belt cities.
--got more medals than the Russians. (Women, silver medal.)

Like Cleveland teams, the American hockey teams
--choked at the end.
--got close, but no cigar.
--didn't have Lebron James this year.
--have no chance of winning anything of significance for the next three years.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

I kind of expected them to lose the bronze medal game, but I didn't expect they wouldn't show up.

I read an article someplace titled "How The United States Became A Hockey Power." Uhh, since the Miracle on Ice, the U.S. hockey team has placed 7th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 6th, 2nd, 8th, 2nd and 4th in the winter Olympics since then. That's not a hockey power; that's hockey mediocrity.

And I have a feeling if the NHL votes to not allow its players to participate in the winter Olympics, it may take another Miracle on Ice for the U.S. to win gold ever again. It's just not the national obsession it is in Canada or Russia or Finland.

Someplace else I read a comparison of the U.S. Mens ice hockey team to the Denver Broncoes. I think it's pretty apt. Both teams were built to plow through the regular (i.e. preliminary round) season, but couldn't hold up against an elite defensive team when it really counted.

[Jester]

I was thinking the same thing as I listened to how the USA team was plowing through the opposition with all their scoring, while Team Canada was doing their best Gandalf impression ("You shall not pass!").

While I hoped for a different result, I can't say I was surprised. It's cliched, but it's true: offense wins games, but defense wins championships.

[fireheart]

I think I remember seeing something about one of the speed skaters doing a Bradbury. Not sure if that actually happened though

(for those of you who don't know, Stephen Bradbury [Aussie speed skater] basically won the men's short track speed skating at the 2002 olympics under a mixture of circumstances. Long story short, all the other men he was competing against went too fast and crashed (and he KNEW this would happen) so he calmly skated through to victory. The term "Doing a Bradbury" means to win under unusual circmstances)

[dawnfire]

I think I remember seeing something about one of the speed skaters doing a Bradbury. Not sure if that actually happened though

(for those of you who don't know, Stephen Bradbury [Aussie speed skater] basically won the men's short track speed skating at the 2002 olympics under a mixture of circumstances. Long story short, all the other men he was competing against went too fast and crashed (and he KNEW this would happen) so he calmly skated through to victory. The term "Doing a Bradbury" means to win under unusual circmstances)

here it is for everyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAADWfJO2qM

he was aiming for at least a bronze with the likelihood of 2 knocking each other our was high but all 4, it was pure fluke

[Jester]

I wouldn't say it was pure fluke. There was some luck involved, but he also skated a smart race, knowing full well that some of his competitors might well take each other out, as that is often the nature of that sport, and he intentionally stayed out of the fray. In the video he says he felt a bit bad some times, as he was not the strongest skater in the field. Perhaps not, but that day, he was the smartest. And that often is the difference.

[Jay 2K Winger]

I wouldn't say it was pure fluke. There was some luck involved, but he also skated a smart race, knowing full well that some of his competitors might well take each other out, as that is often the nature of that sport, and he intentionally stayed out of the fray. In the video he says he felt a bit bad some times, as he was not the strongest skater in the field. Perhaps not, but that day, he was the smartest. And that often is the difference.

I firmly believe that the medal should go to the best athlete in the event.

"Best" does not mean "fastest" or "most accurate" or "can pull off complicated maneuvers that make me ill just watching."

"Best" includes intelligence. Because, as Bradbury proved, sometimes it's about more than just being the fastest/accurate-est/etc.

[Gravekeeper]

The major difference is audience, history, and attention. Skating has a lot of all three, whereas the much newer snowboard sports have less pressure since they have far less of all three.

Snowboarding doesn't come with decades worth of...."culture", either.

To be fair to the gold medalist, she skated a fantastic program with just one minor bobble. And, more importantly, no one else really stepped up to knock her off.

On the contrary, Kim and Kostner should have toppled her. The judges are anonymous but their scores are not. The Russian girl had a good technical skate but her choreography wasn't great. Yet a couple of judges scored her choreography as the best in the tournament. Two judge's in particular thought she was super awesome period. Conversely, 2 judge's flooded Kim's score with low numbers. Its not just a matter of Sotnikova being overscored, the competition was underscored.

The way the judging system works, the lowest and highest scores are dropped in an attempt to prevent cheating. However, it means that 2 judges can guarantee a low blow or a high score by working in concert.

There were two judges that awarded Kim a 1 on 8 out of 12 elements of her routine and no 3's. Thereby guaranteeing she would get hit with a bad spread of 1's in her final score after one of the judge's was removed. Conversely, the other 7 judges awarded her on average only three 1's and several 3's.

On the flip side Sotnikova had two judge that awarded her 3's on 10 out of 12 elements and 8 out of 12 elements respectively. Guranteeing she would get 3's on 8/12. Conversely, the other 7 judges only awarded her two 3's on average. In fact, the other 7 judge's combined gave her a total of fourteen 3's.

So two judge's awarded her more 3's than the other 7 judge's combined.

The world record is 150.06, held by Kim from the Vancouver Olympics. Sotnikova's final score was 149.95. Her previous score, using this exact same routine in competition 3 weeks prior, was 131.63. So according to this judging, in 3 weeks she went from 131.63 to a fraction shy of the world record. >.>

Myself, I was far more annoyed by the low score of Wagner, as I thought she did a better job than Gold or Yulia.

Wagner definitely got screwed too.

Makes sense. Canadians invented it. I'm sure it would have been far different if Americans had come up with it.

Curling is a sport we win gold at because frankly the rest of the world just doesn't understand it. To be honest I'm not even sure we do. I think we may have made it up just to have something we were good at. -.-

[NecessaryCatharsis]

Curling is a sport we win gold at because frankly the rest of the world just doesn't understand it. To be honest I'm not even sure we do.

The only two clubs I have curled at had a bar, on the ice, with a bartender, to serve the players. As they play.

What's to understand?

[mathnerd]

I think I just found my new sport.

[Jester]

I firmly believe that the medal should go to the best athlete in the event.

"Best" does not mean "fastest" or "most accurate" or "can pull off complicated maneuvers that make me ill just watching."

"Best" includes intelligence. Because, as Bradbury proved, sometimes it's about more than just being the fastest/accurate-est/etc.

It's not about being the best athlete. It's about being the best competitor. Because often the best athlete is not the winner. And a competitor combines all the things you said above. It's the total package. It's who's the best that day at that time. I'm sure Bradbury would agree that if you ran that race 10 times, he'd only win once. Because his win was a combination of intelligent strategy on his part and fortuitous idiocy on the part of the others.

Snowboarding doesn't come with decades worth of...."culture", either.

Remember, a "culture" is often a mold. Something you get if something's been around too long or has past its expiration date. The analogy is perfectly intentional.

On the contrary, Kim and Kostner should have toppled her. The judges are anonymous but their scores are not. The Russian girl had a good technical skate but her choreography wasn't great.

You clearly are a bigger fan of figure skating than I am. That being said, when I'm not sure, I'll go with the experts, and the experts I heard comment on this said that, while Sotnikova was overscored, they still agreed with the final results. Now, I'm not saying that the experts are right and you are wrong. I have no idea, as it is not really a sport I follow or care about. I do think they got the top three right (ignoring the order, I think you'd agree with that), and I think Wagner got screwed more than Kim. And I think Kostner outperformed Kim, who clearly played it safe. Had Kim stepped it up and gone all out, as she's capable of, she would have broken her own record and beaten Sotnikova. And if not, we'd have another judging scandal in the sport.

The world record is 150.06, held by Kim from the Vancouver Olympics. Sotnikova's final score was 149.95. Her previous score, using this exact same routine in competition 3 weeks prior, was 131.63. So according to this judging, in 3 weeks she went from 131.63 to a fraction shy of the world record.

You talk about the world record score as if it's a huge deal, but the current scoring system has not been in place all that long, as you surely know. (If I know that, you've got to.) It's not as if it's been around for the whole history of figure skating, or even a large majority of it. Or hell, even for a large portion of it. It hasn't. So the world record is only so significant.

As for your other points, an athlete can outperform what they've done in the past by leaps and bounds. Especially when they're very talented and a lot of what goes into their performance is mental. Athletes have had the performance of their lives in key moments before, outdoing anything they've done before by leaps and bounds, and it's caused huge upsets. And it's not as if Sotnikova was some journeywoman who trapped lightning in a bottle one time.....she'd been a major player on the European scene for some years.

And hell, I dare say, judging shenanigans or not, if Yulia had skated up to her potential and not fallen in both of her programs, she would have taken gold, in these or any Olympics. Over Kim, over Kostner, over Sotnikova. She may well be the favorite in South Korea in four years. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised.

Wagner definitely got screwed too.

Majorly.

Curling is a sport we win gold at because frankly the rest of the world just doesn't understand it. To be honest I'm not even sure we do. I think we may have made it up just to have something we were good at. -.-

As opposed to, say.....HOCKEY?

The only two clubs I have curled at had a bar, on the ice, with a bartender, to serve the players. As they play.

What's to understand?

Even my cold-hating ass would go to that bar.

[Jay 2K Winger]

It's not about being the best athlete. It's about being the best competitor. Because often the best athlete is not the winner. And a competitor combines all the things you said above. It's the total package. It's who's the best that day at that time. I'm sure Bradbury would agree that if you ran that race 10 times, he'd only win once. Because his win was a combination of intelligent strategy on his part and fortuitous idiocy on the part of the others.

Much better said, actually.

[MoonCat]

Lycra. Not spandex. Trust me, I was observing the women's uniforms. Closely.

Lycra's a brand name for spandex, I believe.

Not that it matters. Clingy is clingy.