Burrs and Chips, the Bane of Exsistance

[Gilhelmi]

The mustard gas training was accidental, one of those, 'I thought you all knew this already' because we keep significant quantities of ammonium hydroxide on hand, and of course we have standard cleaning products available.

Really? They thought everyone knew the recipe to Mustard Gas? I only know about it because of the US Army (they are rightly paranoid about crazy people attacking them).

Not telling employees about a (very rare, because the chemicals are tightly controlled) hazard is just crazy. It would be like not telling us where the first aid kit is, or about the eye washing station (except far more deadly).

[Seshat]

I thought everyone knew the recipe for chlorine gas: or at least anyone who owns a toilet and keeps chlorine bleach in the house.

NOTE NOTE NOTE: if any of you don't know the recipe, it basically goes like this. NEVER EVER EVER use chlorine bleach in a toilet, or on any urine or ammonia spill.

And if you ever discover that anyone has, get out of the house NOW, grabbing animals and children on the way and yelling to adults to get out as well.
Anyone who's breathed the stuff - particularly the person who used the chlorine bleach on the spill - must be hospitalised immediately with the ambulance officers told what happened.
And get the fire department to verify the house is safe to re-enter. Most likely it'll only take a few minutes for the gas to dissipate, but look up WWI history before you decide to take it lightly....

There's damn good reason it's banned in the Geneva Convention.


Edit to add: Y'know, maybe I'm talking about a different thing from NC and Gil. I don't know if mustard gas and chlorine gas are the same thing. Even so; mixing chlorine bleach with either ammonia or pee releases one of the deadly gases.

[NecessaryCatharsis]

I was the one doing the WHMIS training when I accidently told them how to make mustard gas. I honestly thought they all knew. As Seshat says, I thought people knew of the dangers of mixing ammonia with chlorine bleach - found in many standard household cleaners. Also the containers say 'do not mix with cleaners or bleach' on them, and most of the household cleaners say 'do not mix with other cleaners' on them. In retrospect I would have stuck with do not mix ammonium hydroxide with anything other than water or clay, and left it at that.

[Argus]

I don't know if mustard gas and chlorine gas are the same thing.

They aren't.

[Gilhelmi]

But both are equally deadly, both use common household chemicals that will never be made illegal because there is nothing to replace them as cleaning agents.

I had actually forgotten about the 'no bleach in toilets'. I was always told to use "toilet bowl cleaner" that was meant to be used in toilets (and therefore never will cause dangerous gas to be produced. Unless you eat really weird things, but then the weird things you are eating will get you before the gas )

[Shalom]

Anything that you have to heat up should be treated with respect. My mother actually taught us how to make candy when I was in Cub Scouts (6-10 year olds). Molten sugar is fun (and dangerous).

Reminds me of the first time I tried to make Yerushalmi Kugel. (this recipe is pretty close to what I was using; specifically, the sugar and oil. Pretty sure you're supposed to use white pepper, though.)

I was stirring the sugar/oil mixture, waiting for it to melt, when I noticed the end of my allegedly heatproof nylon spatula was melting instead...

edit: Most toilet cleaners do in fact use bleach (sodium hypochlorite).

What you get when you mix that with ammonia is some derivative of hydrazine. This is quite useful in many ways, but not at all something you want in your lungs. I remember years ago reading an SF/mystery story about someone who committed murder by filling someone's toilet with ammonia and the tank with bleach; when the victim flushed, presto. It only worked because the intended victim had congenital anosmia; anyone else would have smelled it and cleared out immediately, probably before even flushing the thing.

(I can't stand the smell of hypochlorite ion; chokes me right up. I only use peroxide-based bleaches in my laundry.)

Not sure just what you'd need to mix to get mustard gas, and not sure I want to know. If you're referring to phosgene, which isn't the same thing (it's phosphorus-based, not sulfur-based) WP has a few anti-suggestions, in the form of Don't Do This.

[AccountingDrone]

. I remember years ago reading an SF/mystery story about someone who committed murder by filling someone's toilet with ammonia and the tank with bleach; when the victim flushed, presto. It only worked because the intended victim had congenital anosmia; anyone else would have smelled it and cleared out immediately, probably before even flushing the thing.

(I can't stand the smell of hypochlorite ion; chokes me right up. I only use peroxide-based bleaches in my laundry.)

Not sure just what you'd need to mix to get mustard gas, and not sure I want to know. If you're referring to phosgene, which isn't the same thing (it's phosphorus-based, not sulfur-based) WP has a few anti-suggestions, in the form of Don't Do This.

I remember that, it started out as a short [can't remember, but I think novella] that ended up getting turned into a full on novel. The gist is the world has invisible creatures that float around in the sky and can be discovered by their smell. Some scientist did something that more or less caused the fall of civillization and was considered evil. He ended up living in the empty and destroyed Manhattan [in like the NY Central Library or some such nonsense] with a price on his head. The son of his co-nutter scientist decided to slog in, kill the guy and collect the prize money. The asomia figures in and the mix is used to kill in a bathroom.

I find it amazing how back in the 1970s SF magazines could be used as a blueprint for killing, one F&SF type monthly had an article on turning your 2 storey and attic and basement house into a nuke bomb [of course, making the spheres would kill you rather quickly from radiation exposure .. minor details.] Another book gives interesting hints on turning stuff like sulfuric acid, fiber glass insulation and other household stuff into antipersonnel items.

And you can generate phosgene by overheating chlorinated hydrocarbon based solvents. If you see it, [a light chartreuse colored vapor] it is too late. It has an oddly pleasant scent, like cut grass. It has a 'mouthfeel' of holding a handful of mixed coins in a hot sweaty hand [copper, nickles and silver] I have no idea of how better to describe it - a sort of metallic sensation - not entirely just taste but also an almost oily feel as well. Try holding a handful of warm sweaty change and you should get the sensation. OF course, you also get hacking, wheezing, burning eyes, burning lungs and you may [probably, depending on the concentration] get blistering on the skin [which is also happening internally, I might add...]

[Jay 2K Winger]

And you can generate phosgene by overheating chlorinated hydrocarbon based solvents. If you see it, [a light chartreuse colored vapor] it is too late. It has an oddly pleasant scent, like cut grass. It has a 'mouthfeel' of holding a handful of mixed coins in a hot sweaty hand [copper, nickles and silver] I have no idea of how better to describe it - a sort of metallic sensation - not entirely just taste but also an almost oily feel as well. Try holding a handful of warm sweaty change and you should get the sensation. OF course, you also get hacking, wheezing, burning eyes, burning lungs and you may [probably, depending on the concentration] get blistering on the skin [which is also happening internally, I might add...]

Heisenberg, you gassing drug peddlers again?

[AccountingDrone]

Heisenberg, you gassing drug peddlers again?

? No, just been phosgened twice.

[Jay 2K Winger]

? No, just been phosgened twice.

Annnnd a Breaking Bad reference goes unappreciated.

[dalesys]

I remember that, it started out as a short [can't remember, but I think novella] that ended up getting turned into a full on novel.

Spider Robinson's first Hugo Award for "By Any Other Name" expanded into "Telempath".

[AccountingDrone]

Annnnd a Breaking Bad reference goes unappreciated.

Sorry =( never watched it.

Spider Robinson's first Hugo Award for "By Any Other Name" expanded into "Telempath".

Thats it =)

[Gilhelmi]

I find it amazing how back in the 1970s SF magazines could be used as a blueprint for killing, one F&SF type monthly had an article on turning your 2 storey and attic and basement house into a nuke bomb [of course, making the spheres would kill you rather quickly from radiation exposure .. minor details.] Another book gives interesting hints on turning stuff like sulfuric acid, fiber glass insulation and other household stuff into antipersonnel items.

And to think, I got in trouble (only with my Sargent, fortunately) for having an Army IED training manual in an Airport. I was told by my Sargent not to let anyone see that and keep it put away.

Still, I would like to learn how to build my own Nuclear reactor for energy production....

[prjkt]

like Kodak used to have?

[Gilhelmi]

Oh, I see, When a major company does builds a reactor only a "minor" public outcry.

But when I try and build one, FBI comes in and arrests me. [/sarcasm]

(I promise, I have never been caught by the Federal government building a peaceful Nuclear power generator.)

I wish my parents would have let me do this. But it is just as likely to have ended up like this. (I was an Eagle Scout too. *warning maniacal laughter exceeds disk space*)