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Would it have been manslaughter or negligent homicide? You be the judge!

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  • Would it have been manslaughter or negligent homicide? You be the judge!

    This is a bit of a touchy subject with me considering that last year another factory in our company lost an employee when said employee touched a press that was being serviced and was electrocuted. As was explained to us, the electric current was so strong that it locked that employee's muscles in place and the plant would have had two fatalities had not someone grabbed the person running to help, and kept them from touching the frying employee.

    Anyhow, moving on to present day, when I got to work on Monday there was a notice taped to the timeclock with another employee's picture on it stating that if he was seen on the factory grounds, we were to call 911.

    Here's why: Over the weekend, this employee was caught cutting wires to the presses downstairs. Apparently, his logic was that this would throw the presses into alarm and earn him a half-hour (or however long it would take to solve the problem) break every time he did it. He'd been doing it for a while apparently, too.

    This time though, something went amiss. For one, a supervisor noticed one of the slashed wires hanging down. He blamed a friend of mine who was working overtime over the weekend. She pointed out that she'd just come back from break, and so the supervisor tried pinning the blame on the worker across from my friend. He denied involvement also.

    Then my friend sat down on a low metal table nearby.

    You can likely guess what happened. Yes, another slashed wire, this one a live one, was hanging down and touching that table, and so my friend got a good jolt of electricity via her ass.

    So this begs the question. If we hadn't gotten lucky and it hadn't been a relatively tame live wire, and if my friend had been electrocuted then and there -- you know, biting through her tongue, and her hair catching fire, and her eyeballs either bursting or popping out of their sockets, the whole nine yards -- would we be dealing with negligent homicide here, or manslaughter? The employee responsible for this surely didn't mean to hurt anyone or kill anyone, but she would have been dead all the same, so I'm thinking manslaughter.

    Or, we could have bumped it right up to multiple homicide, because when they did finally track down who did it and marched him out the door that night, he called back and threatened to blow up the building, or, barring that, bring a rifle to the factory and kill as many people as he could shoot.

    And that was why we were to call the cops if we saw him on the grounds.

    Interesting side note: This particular employee had already made a name for himself at the factory because one shift he worked when nobody would relieve him to allow him to take a bathroom break, he shit his pants and kept right on working as though nothing had happened. This is definitely the kind of person you want working for you, is it not?
    Drive it like it's a county car.

  • #2
    I say neither. Not guilty by reason of mental defect. That guy needs the nice men in the white coats to take him to the rubber room for some nice baby food.

    Seriously, cutting random wires because you think it'll give you an extra break? He ain't running on all cylinders mentally.
    Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

    "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

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    • #3
      C) none of the above. I'll answer "What is murder?" Alex.

      He's committing vandalism at the least, and probably several other crimes too. I'm sure rounded up you could find a felony in there, and if a person dies during the commission of a felony, most states make it automagically murder.
      Ba'al: I'm a god. Gods are all-knowing.

      http://unrelatedcaptions.com/45147

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      • #4
        Wrongful death - definitely but that is typically a civil suit.

        IMO it would have been manslaughter. He didn't intend to kill someone but his illegal activities (sabotaging equipment) would have caused someone's death. It would probably along the same lines as someone dying in a drunk & driving accident.
        Quote Dalesys:
        ... as in "Ifn thet dawg comes at me, Ima gonna shutz ma panz!"

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        • #5
          I'm thinking negligent homocide would have more to do with the company and safety protocals. So I'm in favor of calling it manslaughter.
          "Is it hot in here to you? It's very warm, isn't it?"--Nero, probably

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          • #6
            However, wrongful death caused in the commission of a criminal act - isn't that one of the categories of murder?

            Regardless - nasty, nasty piece of work. The guy needs to be assessed for a rubber room.

            If he's not capable of realising that he could be injuring or killing people by doing that, he needs 24/7 supervision and the most freedom he can have is a sheltered workshop.

            If he IS capable of that realisation, he should be locked up until he learns that risking other peoples' deaths so he can get a break is criminally wrong.
            Seshat's self-help guide:
            1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
            2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
            3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
            4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

            "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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            • #7
              Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

              In the United States, specific rules vary from state to state, but they're generally similar.
              "Homicide" is the catch-all term for any act in which one person causes the death of another, and generally comes in 3 flavors:
              1. Murder. This requires "malice aforethought", that is, intent to harm or kill. The intent can be a spur-of-the-moment thing (for instance, someone discovering a spouse in the arms of another), or it can be premeditated. Also included is a murder that occurs in the commission of a felony. For instance, if I'm robbing your house and you surprise me and I kill you, that's murder. Actually, it's capital (or first-degree) murder.
              2. Manslaughter. This does not require malice aforethought, but results in death as the result of an illegal activity. Killing someone while behind the wheel of a car is almost always a form of manslaughter. "Criminally negligent manslaughter" is a special case: it comes into play when someone dies as the result of someone's failure to act, in a particularly appalling way. This is most commonly invoked when safety procedures are not followed, for instance. If the electric problems were the result of equipment malfunction rather than tampering, and if management ignored reports that the equipment was faulty, then the managers responsible are guilty of criminally negligent manslaughter.
              3. Justifiable homicide. This involves things like self-defense, and is not a crime.

              Again, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me like the situation would fit into one of two categories:
              1. Murder in the commission of a felony, but that depends on the act of sabotaging equipment as being a felony. I'm guessing it probably is, but I don't know.
              2. Voluntary manslaughter, compounded by a reckless endangerment charge. "Reckless endangerment" is "engaging in dangerous activities that put other people at great risk."

              The US legal system is... weird, to put it best. Typically, the prosecutor will charge with every statute that could apply, then go to plea bargain or let the jury sort it out. The funny thing is that the charge that most people would think would be the most serious charge isn't always the one that puts things over the edge. I was once on a jury dealing with someone accused of carjacking and stealing a cheap cell phone while a buddy of his had a gun drawn. State law indicates that a gun anywhere in the crime immediately puts everyone on the spot for robbery with a deadly weapon. We found out after the fact that a guilty verdict meant a mandatory 6 to 20-year sentence. What was messed up was that the mandatory sentence wasn't for the carjacking, it was for the deadly weapon in the commission of a robbery. Pull a gun during a carjacking, and you could get probation. Steal a $20 pre-paid phone at gunpoint, and you will go to prison.

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              • #8
                Under uK law you have to prove Mens Rea and Actus Reus, guilty mind and guilty act.

                He performed the act which would have aultimately caused the deadth, but did not intend for a death to be the result. So, manslaughter.

                I'll point out here that i am not a lawyer, i'm a forensicist who last did that bit of law in Law lectures at uni three years ago. I may be somewhat wrong.

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                • #9
                  Quoth Golden Phoenix View Post
                  Under uK law you have to prove Mens Rea and Actus Reus, guilty mind and guilty act.
                  Same in the US/Canada, except for the previously mentioned provisos of "Any death in the commission of a felony is murder." To clarify, when it says "any," they really do mean any. If someone has a heart attack during a robbery? Murder. Someone gets clobbered by a ceiling tile? Murder. Someone re-enacts a scene from a Final Destination movie? Still murder. So, the question is, would the tampering with the machines qualify as a felony? If not, then it's manslaughter, because I really don't think negligent homicide would apply in this case.
                  Ba'al: I'm a god. Gods are all-knowing.

                  http://unrelatedcaptions.com/45147

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                  • #10
                    See, this is why I so enjoy taking such concerns to the CS community. We have experts in everything. And it's just plain good to let off steam about idiots.
                    Drive it like it's a county car.

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                    • #11
                      How is your friend, is she okay? Also, did the police actually arrest this guy? Because making a bomb threat or threatening to arrive at work with barrels blazing is a bit of a terroristic threat, don't you think?
                      A lion however, will only devour your corpse, whereas an SC is not sated until they have destroyed your soul. (Quote per infinitemonkies)

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                      • #12
                        Quoth bainsidhe View Post
                        How is your friend, is she okay? Also, did the police actually arrest this guy? Because making a bomb threat or threatening to arrive at work with barrels blazing is a bit of a terroristic threat, don't you think?
                        All's well in all respects as far as I know. My friend is fine and was at work the next day, which is where I heard about all of this. As for the guy they fired, I haven't heard anything more. They did take his photo down though...
                        Drive it like it's a county car.

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                        • #13
                          Quoth reimero View Post
                          Pull a gun during a carjacking, and you could get probation. Steal a $20 pre-paid phone at gunpoint, and you will go to prison.
                          I think this last part is somewhat skewed, unless you can provide legal precedent, of course. I would believe that the carjacking would be Grand Theft Auto or something similar.
                          Last edited by Ree; 09-08-2009, 04:41 AM. Reason: Removed fratching content

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                          • #14
                            Quoth hauntedheadnc View Post
                            As for the guy they fired, I haven't heard anything more. They did take his photo down though...
                            I hope that's because he's in jail. What's to say he wouldn't wait for everybody to forget him before he returns to do something crazy?
                            Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.

                            "I never said I wasn't a horrible person."--Me, almost daily

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                            • #15
                              Quoth Hobbs View Post
                              I think this last part is somewhat skewed, unless you can provide legal precedent, of course.
                              Not sure why you're requesting legal precedent. Did you miss the part mentioning that this was from an actual court case where reimero was a juror?
                              I don't know, but that's precedent enough for me.
                              Too tired of living and too tired to end it. What a conundrum.

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