Alco-ma-frol...things...

[SongsOfDragons]

(Title comes from a mispronunciation of 'alcohol' we had at university, and it came to be known as 'Alcomafrol, the F stands for Fun'. XD)

More of a couple of specific research queries than anything else. I might have asked this on WikiQuestions, but with such tomes of knowledge on here I thought I might have better luck here. I can't really glean the answers from researching on the web, I think some either might be blasphemous to alcohol aficionados, or I've jumped the gun and missed the basics... Basically I'm planning in quite some detail the produce of a farm (specifically one from Mistledale, in Faerûn, a D&D setting) and I've become a little baffled by the production methods of various alcohols...

Basically, what makes wine a wine and what makes beer/ale beer/ale? Is it that the latter has starch in its making?
What about things like cider or mead, could one fundamentally (and ducking bricks) call them apple-wine and honey-wine or is there something different that goes into them? In this vein can you make a wine of anything vaguely planty and edible?
And slightly unrelated; what are liqueurs? They can't be just flavoured vodka, right? I have some creme de menthe which seems way too thick for the water-like vodka...

From me, rather

[Ironclad Alibi]

From my limited knowledge, and I'm sure others will correct any errors, there are two types of alcoholic beverages, fremented and distilled. The ones you asked about are fermented.

What it is called depends on what it is made from. Beer is made from cereal grains, usually malted barley but corn, wheat, rice, etc. may also be used. Mead is made from honey. Cider is made from apples.

Wine is made from grapes, of which there are many varieties. The type of wine, red, white, rose, depends on the process, not the grape.

See this link for a description of liqueurs.

Probably any crop you decide to grow on a farm can be made into an alcoholic beverage.

[Kittish]

I'm certainly no expert, but I might accidentally manage to be correct on a few things here.

Basically, what makes wine a wine and what makes beer/ale beer/ale?

Wine is made from grapes. There may or may not be other fruits involved. Beer and ale are brewed from a barley or some other grain base, with things like hops and malt for flavor. If I remember correctly, vodka is made from potatoes.

I guess you COULD call cider 'apple wine' and mead 'honey wine', but that would tend to be somewhat misleading, since wine implies fermented grape juice.

You CAN make booze out of anything plantlike that is edible. Whether it'll wind up being GOOD booze or not... that's a whole nother subject. I certainly wouldn't call most of what you'd wind up with WINE... nor, in many cases, even drinkable. But it would have an alchohol content!

There's also a basic difference between brewing and distilling. For wine, beer, ale, cider and mead, you brew them. Put the ingredients together and let them do their thing, and it's done. For vodka, whiskey, and other harder liquors you have to distill them, which is much more complex than simply brewing. Since I'm NOT an expert on either, I'll let it go at that. There is a TON of info on the web about brewing and distilling though, if you want more detailed explanations.

[KiaKat]

Expert here!

Beer, of any sort, is a process requiring grain and yeast. Sake is technically a beer, not a wine. It creates carbonation on the primary fermentation. Essentially you take grain, boil it down into a mash, add yeast & flavourings, and begin the fermentation.

Wine, of any sort, is a process requiring fruit and yeast. It can create carbonation on any of three fermentations, depending on the exact processes used. Most wines are made simply by crushing the fruit and allowing fermentation to start naturally, or perhaps with a bit of yeast added. There is a *lot* more to this, I'm uber-simplifying it.

Cider is a slightly different process, as it is intended to create a beer-like substance (carbonation on the primary fermentation), using a fruit. Crush fruit, add yeast, ferment.

Mead is frequently called honey wine. Although it is its own type of alcohol (requires a bit of pre-fermentation processing, whereas wine should not require anything other than a yeast inoculation), it is usually grouped in with wines. The honey must be thinned, and often has either herbs, spices, or fruit juice added pre-fermentation, depending on style and culture.

Liqueurs are a blend of distilled liquor (can be grain or grape), a sugar mixture (either from grape, beet, or sugarcane), and flavouring. Every liqueur has a different base alcohol (i.e. Drambuie comes from Scotch), and can be flavoured either naturally or artificially.

Any questions? I've modified my standard lecture for the above, I could give you the whole thing, if you want...

[SongsOfDragons]

Edit again: Ahhhh I think I sees now!! The fermented ones aren't the same as each other but have relatively similar processes? Is it dependant on the sugar/yeast content of the base?

...Where would said farm get their yeast from? Could one use bread yeast?

I'd like to read/see said lecture, I'll add it to my major folder of reference topics...

[Kittish]

...Where would said farm get their yeast from? Could one use bread yeast?

I don't see why not. Or wild yeast, same way you get sourdough starter. Yeast occurs naturally on the surface of grapes (it's the dusty looking stuff on them), I'd guess it occurs on other fruits as well.

[KiaKat]

The yeast used in fermenting alcohol has a lot of different strains. Some are suitable for wine, others aren't. It all depends on the strain, and on making sure that certain wild yeasts (Brettanomyces, for example) don't contribute to the fermentation - some of them can give very nasty flavours.

I'd love to give you the full lecture. Unfortunately, all my notes are on my laptop. Which was stolen last night. I'll try to reconstruct it this weekend.

[Jester]

Semi-expert here.

Kittish did a great job, and I point you to that post, but I'd like to add some more.

Wine does not have to be made from grapes. It is generally made from grapes, but can be made from a variety of fruits. There is a tropical winery down here that specializes in making tropical fruit wine, including (but not limited to) mango and key lime.

Beer....ah, my old friend beer. The oldest alcoholic beverage we have, pre-dating the Egyptians. Though the beer we drink now is drastically different than what was drank then, it is still beer, and has many varieties. Beer, in its most basic form, comes from four ingredients: water, barley, yeast, and hops. The barley can be any grain, but is often rice, wheat, rye, etc. If you'd like, I can give a mini-lecture on styles of beer, but I don't think that is necessary for knowing what a farm would grow for various different alcohols.

Beer and wine are fermented. As is cider (I believe, but I could be wrong on this).

Liquor is distilled. Some liquor is distilled and then bottled. Some is aged for a various time periods before it is bottled. Some get multiple agings, i.e., aged in one kind of cask for this time, aged in a different kind of cask (or a non-cask container) for a different time. I have enjoyed triple-aged rum from Spain, for example. You can tell the difference in most cases between aged and non-aged liquor by the color. Clear means it is not (significantly) aged, and was distilled to be very pure, such as vodka, gin, and light rums. Amber or dark liquors are aged in various containers, and take on impurities from said aging vessels, which not only give them their color, but also directly affect the final taste.

Vodka is generally not aged, but distilled, sometimes multiple times, to be pure. The classic vodka is made from potatoes, but can be made from a number of grains. From wikipedia:

"Vodka may be distilled from any starch/sugar-rich plant matter; most vodka today is produced from grains such as sorghum, corn, rye or wheat. Among grain vodkas, rye and wheat vodkas are generally considered superior. Some vodkas are made from potatoes, molasses, soybeans, grapes, rice, sugar beets and sometimes even byproducts of oil refining or wood pulp processing. In some Central European countries like Poland some vodka is produced by just fermenting a solution of crystal sugar and yeast."

Gin is, for all intents and purposes, flavored vodka. It is distilled the same way as vodka, but rather than grains, its source produce is juniper berries. In addition to these, most gins also add a variety of various botanicals to the distilling process to give each gin its particular flavor.

Whiskey (or whisky) is made from fermented grain mash, and is usually aged. Bourbon is a particular type of whiskey (no, it doesn't have to come from Kentucky, though most do, but there are very strict rules for what whiskeys can be called bourbons), as is Scotch (aged whiskies produced and aged in Scotland, I believe under as strict guidelines as bourbon).

Tequila is made from the agave plant in Mexico. As far as I know, all tequila is from Mexico, where the agave is native. There are four basic levels of tequila, starting at blanco (white, or clear), Oro (gold), Reposado (no idea what this means), and Anejo (aged). Despite impressive marketing, Jose Cuervo is not a very good tequila, and technically, is not really 100% tequila.

Rum....ah, rum. My newest friend. What can I say about you here that I have no already said before on this site? Rum is made from sugar cane juice, molasses, fermented molasses, and/or other sugar by-product. You could say that rum is fermented sugar juice, but that is vastly over-simplifying thins. Rum is not as strictly regulated internationally as other liquors are as far as its production, so there is a wide variety of what "is" rum, although some nations DO enforce strict or very strict guidelines on the rum distilleries within their borders. Colombia is famous for this. But then, that's why a 3 year old Colombian rum can go heads up with most 10 year old rums. Aged rum is often aged in barrels formerly used to age other liquors, such as whiskey, scotch, sherry, or wine. And no, Virginia, Bacardi is NOT a quality rum. (At least not Bacardi Silver, the flagship product of the distillery, and what most people drink when they order Bacardi. To be fair, Bacardi does make some quality rums.)

Here's the deal....chances are good that if something grows, and can ferment, someone somewhere has or will make an alcoholic beverage out of it. Not all of these are good, mind you, but they are all liquor.

[Frantic Freddie]

Semi-expert here.

Tequila is made from the agave plant in Mexico. As far as I know, all tequila is from Mexico, where the agave is native. There are four basic levels of tequila, starting at blanco (white, or clear), Oro (gold), Reposado (no idea what this means), and Anejo (aged). Despite impressive marketing, Jose Cuervo is not a very good tequila, and technically, is not really 100% tequila.

Time for my tequila story:

I hadn't touched the stuff for many years,not since a very bad night & subsequent 2 days recovering.The mere smell of Jose Cuervo would induce my gag reflex.

So we're at my brother's wedding in Nuevo Laredo (he married a beautiful Mexican lady,they now have 2 wonderful kids) & the wedding was 2 days before Christmas & Christmas day found us at her brother's house with all us men standing outside (it was 80F) while huge racks of ribs roasted on a giant grill.

One of her brothers came up to me & asked if I'd like a shot of tequila.Well,my mom raised me to be polite so I accepted.Had nothin' to do with the fact that I really wanted a drink,nossir I also figured that since it'd been so many years I could deal with it,given enough salt & lime.

So I have the salt,then toss down this shot of clear liquor.

I didn't even get the lime to my mouth & the expression on my face must've been something to see,as he said "You like it?"

"What the hell is this,it's good! I've never had tequila that tasted this good,all I've ever drank is Cuervo!"

He says with a grin "We don't drink that shit,we send it all to you guys,we keep the good stuff here"

"Well amigo,dame otra por favor"

And that's how I found out about good tequila.I still don't drink it except on rare/special occasions,but along with the usual bottle of Cuervo in our bar we also keep 2-3 bottles of premium stuff.

[blondemarmot]

Oh, mead...my love! There are actually a few different types and names for mead based on what goes in it. A wiki link for it.

But cider is not considered an apple wine in the US. My parents made their own and I tended to drink it all before it turned to vinegar or go hard. Cider will naturally ferment if it is not pasteruized. Make it, can it and feed it to the kiddies before it goes "tingly" as I put it as a kiddie. We have some really old trees that we used, a super tart green pie apple tree with a firm smooth meat, and a green and red striped semi-sweet with a bit of mealier meat.
Cider is simply apple juice before filtration and man do I miss it. Watching the apples get eaten up in the press, that thick liquid squeezing out and catching the first cupful, still warm from the apples ripening in the sun...and then sneaking into the basement for the canned jars later in the season just before it really got fermented and the tingle on my tongue from the carbonation and fermentation that happened naturally...I might just cry I miss it so much.

[fireheart]

Speaking of yeast, I had no idea that yeast could reproduce....there goes my brain at midnight.

Also according to wiki as far as what yeast to use, I believe that while bread yeast and brewer's yeast are from the same strain, they're prepared differently.

Wiki sums it up:

Brewing yeasts may be classed as "top cropping" (or "top fermenting") and "bottom cropping" (or "bottom-fermenting").[33] Top cropping yeasts are so called because they form a foam at the top of the wort during fermentation. An example of a top cropping yeast is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, sometimes called an "ale yeast".[34] Bottom cropping yeasts are typically used to produce lager-type beers, though they can also produce ale-type beers. These yeasts ferment more sugars, creating a dryer beer, and grow well at low temperatures. An example of bottom cropping yeast is Saccharomyces pastorianus, formerly known as S. carlsbergensis.
The most common top cropping brewer's yeast, S. cerevisiae, is the same species as the common baking yeast.[35] However, baking and brewing yeasts typically belong to different strains, cultivated to favour different characteristics: baking yeast strains are more aggressive, to carbonate dough in the shortest amount of time possible; brewing yeast strains act slower, but tend to produce fewer off-flavours and tolerate higher alcohol concentrations (with some strains, up to 22%).

[KiaKat]

These days, most brewers, winemakers, and distillers use customized strains of yeast to kickstart the fermentation process. There are entire companies built around the creation and sale of these yeasts.

My current familiarity is more with wines, so I'll use that as the example:

A winemaker crushes the grapes, turning them into must. If making a white wine, she crushes them carefully, ensuring the juice is fully removed from the skins, stems, and pits. THe must goes into a large tank of a carefully selected material (usually stainless steel, but can be oak or concrete), and sulphur is added to kill off the wild yeasts - both good and bad. The winemaker then inoculates the now-sterile must with a cultivated yeast strain designed to give exactly the flavours she wants in her wine. Fermentation starts, and wine is made.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of cultivated yeasts. I'm starting to be able to taste them in wines, and I find they add artificial notes to wines that already have adjusted alcohol, tannin, and acid levels.

[Dave1982]

Couple points of clarification here.

Gin - as has been pointed out - is essentially a flavored vodka. However, it isn't fermented from juniper berries. It's made from grain just like vodka, but is re-distilled along with juniper berries and other herbs/botanicals to infuse those flavors into the drink.

Also, distillation does not produce alcohol; only fermentation does. All liquors start off with a fermented product (grain for whiskey, vodka, and gin. Molasses for rum. Agave for tequila, and wine for brandy) which is then concentrated into a higher-proof spirit through distillation. No chemical reactions (ie, formation of alcohol) take place during distillation.

Beyond that I don't have a whole lot to add. I'm not exactly a connosseur of fine alcoholic beverages, but I do know a bit about how they are made, as this sort of thing piques my curiousity (I've actually got an autographed copy of "The Way Things Work" )

[Jester]

Gin - as has been pointed out - is essentially a flavored vodka. However, it isn't fermented from juniper berries. It's made from grain just like vodka, but is re-distilled along with juniper berries and other herbs/botanicals to infuse those flavors into the drink.

See, that is what I thought, and what I originally almost typed out, but then I made the mistake of "confirming" this by googling...and went with the information I found on either wikipedia or some similar site. Serves me right for not double checking my sources. Silly Jester!