An interesting anniversary

[JoitheArtist]

I realized the other day that this month (possibly last month, I get a little fuzzy on the dates) marks 2 things:

1. The beginning of my first relationship, 13 years ago
2. The end of my second and last relationship, 12 years ago.

Doing the math, since I just turned 30, it's clear that these both happened at the end of high school, in the space of about a year. Both of these were online.

Since then, zilch. My mom had always told me not to worry about the fact that I didn't date in high school, because high school guys usually weren't worth dating anyway. So while it hurt that I always got passed by, I looked forward to college.

College came and went, no interest from anyone.

After college, there was one guy I'd initially met online who was interested; we talked on the phone for hours, sent emails back and forth, and finally agreed to meet. After that day, I never heard from him again. Guess his thoughts on me were pretty clear after that.

Then there was the guy who pretended to be interested so he'd have someone to hang out with and someone to be an emotional crutch for him. That idiot decided it'd be a great idea to hit on my housemates any time I left the room, and send them emails about how he wasn't interested in me but wanted to date them instead. Housemates showed me the emails, I never spoke to the fuckweasel again.

This is a hard subject for me, but I wanted to post about it because never saying anything about it is becoming unhealthy for me. It all just sits in my heart and festers there quietly. I keep telling myself that there's nothing shameful in not being attractive, but it's a lie. Of *course* I feel ashamed. Heck, I can't even participate in talks about unwanted male attention while walking, because it never happens to me.

Naturally, people like to tell me, "Oh, it's alright, your turn will come." At this point, I know that's a lie. A well-intentioned lie, but a lie nonetheless. I have 30 years of guys not noticing me as proof. I also have 4.5 years of art training and a good mirror: I know how I look, and that's that.

The funny thing is, I would probably be miserable *in* a relationship: I made a mess of the first two. The first one was with a guy who was a cheating, emotionally manipulative bastard, and I let him walk all over me. The second was with a really sweet guy whom I was pretty constantly bitchy to, and then broke it off for really no reason (though it would never have worked long-term, and we are still friends.)

This is probably more than anyone wanted to know, but I feel a little bit better now that it's not all cooped up inside. Thanks for letting me vent.

[MoonCat]

Joie, I understand this pretty well. I went to an all-girls high school. There was a boys high school a block away. I got zero attention from the guys, and I was thin at the time. Oh, wait, there was one kid, a total stranger, who came up to me on his bike as I was walking home and out of the blue asked me if I was a whore. He followed me home and thank god my mom was in the yard at the time, which gave me the courage to tell him to get lost. I didn't go to college, so I don't know what would have happened then, but I was very, very painfully shy, so probably nothing would have happened.

My mom unfortunately had issues with sexuality, and that along with my religious upbringing and my natural shyness left me clueless about guys. The only guy who ever asked me out was a friend of my brother's, and it literally took me hours to realize what he was asking me (granted, he could have been more direct). There was no chemistry, so nothing came of that, either.

Men don't talk to me..except for the weirdos. I don't know what kind of vibes I'm giving off. I know I'm overweight, but I see pics of much larger women than me in the brides section of the paper all the time. Pretty sure that if I had some confidence, it would help. But I don't know where you get it from. I don't want to get married, but a date now and then would be nice.

It's good to vent, though. Keeping it inside just hurts too much.

[lupo pazzesco]

*hugs* I feel you.

I turn 29 this year, and am in my first ever relationship. I hated myself. Still have moments of self-hate, I do. I'm fat, I'm painfully shy, anxiety riddled, and my OCD causes a lot of problems with people. I have no confidence in myself, still, actually.

It's not a confidence thing, or a self-perception thing. Eventually, someone will see YOU, and will accept YOU, with all of your quirks and insecurities, even though you won't feel worthy of it.

I think you've got a lot to offer, just from reading your threads and your comments. Witty, intelligent, awesome sense of humor, and have I mentioned how jealous I am of your beautiful hair...?

I guess this is coming off as more trite and cliche than I meant it to be, but the long and short of it is, I know how you feel, and just remember we're here if you need us. Venting always helps, whenever you need to.

[AnaKhouri]

I've seen your picture and I think you're lovely. It's very possible you DO get attention from guys but you don't notice it because they're not coming up and hitting on you directly. My husband will sometimes comment how some guy was checking me out, and I never noticed because I wasn't paying attention.

If you are interested in meeting people, even just looking for friends, it's important to get out of the house. I accepted an invitation from my husband's co-worker (whom I'd never met) to come to dinner just this evening and got along with his wife like a house afire. I think we definitely have some good times in the future.

When you're shy like me, it's scary. But if you just hold your breath and jump in, after the first few times you figure out how to swim. All you need is to meet that one person who can open doors for you, and you just have to keep trying. I wouldn't worry about messing up a new relationship; you seem very clear on what went badly before and you're older and more mature now.

Of course if you're content single, that's perfectly fine too. Everyone should follow their heart, not what society thinks they should do.

I'm sure you've probably heard all this before, but there's so many excellent people on this board who seem to be lonely, it's heartbreaking. And it IS solid advice, you just have to work yourself up to taking it.

Good luck, and I hope you end up happy whatever you choose.

[Draper Mel]

I know how it goes. I turned 44 last month. I've had one boyfriend. For 6 months. In 1997.

My entire life I've been out of sync with the opposite sex. When they liked me, I was turned off or weirded out. When I liked them, they didn't like me or were unavailable.

I've finally realized that the problem is I have issues letting anybody get close to me, let alone men. I have problems even contacting people I consider friends to go do something. It happens relatively rarely. And it feels to me like I'm usually the one who has to do the reaching out, so I wonder if something about me makes people reluctant to approach me.

A couple years ago my therapist at the time and I figured out that I very likely have something called avoidant personality disorder. I think it's very likely that it's the result of being bullied when I was a kid. I suspect I also have some mild issues with figuring out social cues; whether that contributed to the bullying or was the result of it I don't know. I'm fairly confident that someday they'll find a place for me on the autism spectrum.

As of now, I've given up looking. I'm quite happy being by myself and having cats. I never did want kids to begin with, so that's not a problem. I'm just going to be me and if it happens it happens. If not, I'm going to keep working on being a better friend and that will be plenty.

Anyway, Joi, don't ever feel like you're less of a person because you don't have a man in your life. I probably don't need to tell you that, but sometimes it helps to reiterate it. There are far more happy single people than the media would have us believe

[Raveni]

Happy birthday.

Be happy you're not involved in a sting of either #1 or #2!

Besides, someone has to be the later in "sooner or later you will find someone". Some things are worth the wait.

[Mytical]

I had my first girlfriend, an internet relationship mind, only a few years ago. We met face to face, and within a week I was single again. The next girl friend was found here, went by the name Wenchie. We met once..and then I was single again. Everything seems to be fine..until I meet a person..and then..well..my track record speaks for itself.
I was very fortunate to find Marmalady, but worry the same thing will happen. We meet, and she will realize I am not worthy of her.

Now I've not seen pictures of some that are 'chronically single', but I have to say .. I don't understand it for the ones who's pictures I have seen. For instance Joi. You are a very beautiful woman. I have no clue why you are not having to fight guys off like they were some sort of zombie horde. It doesn't compute.

That being said, sometimes you just have to relax. Let things happen, the moment you stop looking..it starts a chain reaction and eventually you turn around one day and realize it has happened.

[DaDairyDruid]

this will probably come across a bit more "tough love" than intended, so please bear with me.

also I will be using the term "guy". if you prefer women/furries/whatever, please substitute the apropriate pronoun.

Joi, I do not know you well, but I have a few questions. Are you really serious about finding someone? if you are, have you taken any steps to try, or are you simply waiting like the princess in the tower for someone to rescue you and sweep you off your feet? I know how difficult it is to find someone, and it takes a *LOT* of effort, but it IS a 2 way street. have you jooined a dating websire or 3? attended a mixer at your local place of worship? do you flirt? have you asked anyone out?

guys are not clairvoiant/psychic. we do not know just by looking if someone is interested in dating in general or in us specificly. I know it is difficult, but sometimes you have to take the first steps yourself. reach out to people. take risks. get hurt. get hurt again. get hurt a third time. if you fall down 9 times stand up 10.

i am not saying it is your fault you are alone. but relationships go in both directions. how will someone know you might be interested if you aren't sending out signals? i know it took a lot of chasing for me to catch FMA_Fanatic. your effort may not always be rewarded, but if you get used to trying, it does get easier to try the next time.

my 2 cents.

[Rapscallion]

I've managed forty-two years single. There's a difference between alone and lonely.

That being out of the way, if you were over here and were I looking, I'd consider you with interest, Joi. From what I've seen on here, you've got it between the ears and common sense to boot. Not everyone would find Barbie and her superficial attitudes appealing.

guys are not clairvoiant/psychic. we do not know just by looking if someone is interested in dating in general or in us specificly. I know it is difficult, but sometimes you have to take the first steps yourself. reach out to people. take risks. get hurt. get hurt again. get hurt a third time. if you fall down 9 times stand up 10.

Worth quoting this. Whilst there are 'players' out there who would pick up on signals and hints, the average bloke is pretty clueless. If you find someone interesting, get a mutual acquaintance to feel things out or make an approach. I was the best man at a wedding that started that way. Over a decade later, still going strong.

Rapscallion

[sms001]

I also have 4.5 years of art training and a good mirror: I know how I look, and that's that.

Guys ARE initially visually stimulated, but "beauty" is incredibly subjective. I prefer more androgynous/athletic/tomboy figures, Joe likes 'em as zaftig as Rubens, and there's some guy out there that thinks we're both nuts. Scars and ink and unique features delight me, someone else wants unmarred from head to toe. But I dated outside my "preferences" often; the only real unifying element seems to have been strong facial features; broad forehead, high cheekbones, aquiline nose.

That said, even young men get past that stuff fairly quickly if you're interesting. And once out of the twenties or so, that rate does nothing but increase.

Which segues nicely to:

...would probably be miserable *in* a relationship: I made a mess of the first two.

...it's clear that these both happened at the end of high school....

If you aren't already looking back on every aspect of your past and thinking "Wow, I could handle THAT a hell of a lot better now!" you should at least realize that high school is an unbelievably artificial construct compared to Real Life™. If you're still growing and learning as a human being, you are getting better at relationships even if you're not in one just because of the experience you bring to the table. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that your next involvement is exponentially better than those two, even if it doesn't go long term.

As far as I can tell, humans are neither monogamous nor non-monogamous, it seems to vary from individual to individual and from circumstance to circumstance. You might find a comfort zone in several short term relationships of different durations, or just one or two longer ones here and there. But I seriously doubt if you're out of the game entirely yet. My wife and I just celebrated our 13th anniversary Monday, and we didn't marry until I was 40. Does that mean there's hope for you? No. But it does mean that everyone is very different, and that means your chances are as good as anyone else's.

[protege]

Joi, unless you could She-who-must-not-be-named, my last relationship (of any sort) imploded back in 2001. Since then, I've met a few other people...but nothing has ever happened. One or two dates, and then I never hear from them again. Doesn't matter who it is or when it is.

[cinema guy]

I was 39 before I got into a relationship. I wasn't looking for it, it just kind of happened. Joi, from what I have read on here, you are a smart and funny lady. I am sure you will find someone.

[malmalthekiller]

What you're lacking does not have to define you, Joi. I know it's hard to not focus on something that society puts such an emphasis on.

I always have held the belief that you have to be a whole person before any kind of relationship will work out successfully.

I've made a lot of stupid decisions with relationships, and I'm currently in one that is a bit unique, but works well for the both of us. I'm not too worried about where it's going, because I don't define life by other people's standards (getting married, children, etc.). I'm not interested in the norm. I'm interested in understanding and fun.

Just know that people are with you and understand. It's up to you to make your life worth living.

[BroSCFischer]

I believe I have mentioned it a few times, but I have never been in a romantic relationship. To be honest, I doubt very much if I ever will be. Some people just can't handle being that close to another human being. They just aren't suited to that level of personal interaction. Both my parents are 2x divorced, and that may play a roll in it, but I also think that my personality would not mesh very well with someone else's.

I am 31 years old, there was a time when I found the above to be discouraging, and there was a time that I considered seeking companionship. I gave multiple excuses as to why I didn't, and have come to realize that, while I can be friends with people of either gender, I don't really want to go through the varied stresses of a romantic relationship.

Joi, if you WANT to be in a relationship, there are many ways to go about it. Looks have little to do with it. What matters more is what you've got going on INSIDE. Your personality, creativity, and intelligence are all MUCH more important than your physical appearance. And the good people out there look for that over appearance. This over all, if you WANT to be in a relationship SEEK ONE OUT.

Hope this helps,

SC

[ApolloSZ]

Raps already re-quoted the bit about guys often being oblivious - I'll add a +1 to it.

From what I've seen on here, you've got it between the ears and common sense to boot. Not everyone would find Barbie and her superficial attitudes appealing.

This one I wanted to requote - I think I've mentioned it before. I once surprised my (at the time) girlfriend when I told her truthfully, she could look just as amazing in her pj's after waking up, as she could in makeup and dressed to the nines.

Not every guy is driven by the looks of girls. Sure I admit I do like certain features on a woman, BUT i happily disregard that. Because I'd rather go out with someone who is intelligent but not considered beautiful by society, than barbie who is an airhead.