Ok, for all of you who know more about comics/super heroes than I do...

[Barracuda]

One could argue quite a few heroes aren't superheroes if it's items that make them able to use their powers. Wonder Woman is just a normal Amazon without her armor and lasso. Thor is just another Asgardian without Mjolnir; he can't fly or hurl thunder without it. Hawkeye or Green Arrow are just guys who know martial arts without their bows. Green Lantern is just a human without his ring. Captain America can fight without his shield, but not nearly as well. I could go on.

[EricKei]

Barracuda -- Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in most continuities, are not those first two at least demi-gods, even without their special weapons and/or armor? Would they not have at least a certain baseline power that sets well them above even your "average super" ? I would imagine that this varies by writer, even if so.

[Mytical]

Both Wonder Woman and Thor have powers without their gear. Enhanced Strength, Durability, etc.

Wonder Woman is a bit more powerful then other Amazons. However, he is right that there are other Amazons just as powerful if not more so then Wonder Woman. However, Wonder Woman is considered one of their greatest warriors.

Thor is a bit like Wonder Woman. Even without his Hammer, he is considered one of the greatest warriors. However, as stated, without his hammer, he is just slightly stronger (etc) and better trained (fighting, etc) then a normal Asgardian.

Personally I think gadgets count, and here is why.

Cyborg - A regular human who is now part machine. He relies on his machine parts for fighting.

Blue Beetle - Again a regular human that relies on the tech (alien tech, but tech)

I am sure I am forgetting some. So tech/gadgets does not mean somebody is not a superhero.

[Geek King]

Supes was holding back. Batman even specifically says that Superman could smear him instantly at any time during the fight but doesn't because he's too goody goody. Also, Batman had a kryptonite ring. That Supes gave him prior in case Batman ever needed to kill him.

[...]

Since, otherwise, Superman would just snap him like a twig. >.>

.

I'll have to dig up the trades again, since they're packed from my move, and I've been slow unpacking, but I seem to remember Bats using tricks and the environment to limit Supes to just his strength, which was being used to try and kill Bats. Oh well, I don't swear to be perfect.

I agree that straight up, Superman kills Batman every time. Everyone else in the DC universe too, for that matter. That's always been the Superman problem for the writers. He's too damn powerful without coming up with some crippling factor every time, so they start seeming contrived very quickly. Sometimes half the fun is seeing how eye-rollingly bodged-in those limitations are.

[Mytical]

Want a real scary thought? I mean something that will just boggle the mind?

Spoilers :

Imagine Superman with a Lantern Ring. In Blackest Night he had a black one. In Brightest Day he had a White One. Think about it. Not even Kryptonite would affect him then. Any weakness he might have would be over come by the rings.. and whatever weakness the rings had .. he would over come.

[wolfie]

Wonder Woman is just a normal Amazon without her armor and lasso.

You think Wonder Woman is an Amazon? Sounds like you need to sign up for a class in remedial etymology.

[Sheldonrs]

You think Wonder Woman is an Amazon? Sounds like you need to sign up for a class in remedial etymology.

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman

[wolfie]

Ahem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Woman

If you read the paragraph about Classical Greeks in the "Etymology" section, you'll see the reasoning behind my comment.

IMNSHO, that origin has flaws. First, the surgery involved would have (in the Classical era) been an open invitation to death from infection. Second, it would be unnecessary - even a well-endowed woman won't foul the bowstring if she uses the proper stance (at roughly a 45 degree angle to the target, rather than the "side-on" stance depicted by illustrators who haven't shot a bow). Most likely, it was an allegation against foes that tried to depict them as being extremely unfeminine (since warrior women were unthinkable in patriarchal Classical culture).

[Seshat]

DC Universe Amazon, not Classical Greek Amazon. Stay in context, hmm?

I choose to assume you were trying to be funny, but it does seem to have missed its mark. Back on topic, please folks.

[Barracuda]

Stargirl from DC is another good example of a hero completely dependent on an item. If she is separated from her staff, she's just a normal human. Actually, I think DC may have the edge in number of item based heroes. Shining Knight and Crimson Avenger are another couple of good examples. And don't get me started on the magic using superheroes like Dr. Fate and Dr. Strange....

[lordlundar]

Stargirl from DC is another good example of a hero completely dependent on an item. If she is separated from her staff, she's just a normal human. Actually, I think DC may have the edge in number of item based heroes. Shining Knight and Crimson Avenger are another couple of good examples. And don't get me started on the magic using superheroes like Dr. Fate and Dr. Strange....

Can't speak for Fate but it's not applicable to Strange. In Strange's case he does have an inherent magical ability. The Eye of Agamotto augments his ability, but it cannot bestow the ability to use magic in of itself. Separating the eye would diminish his power, but you'd still be facing a very powerful sorcerer.

[Jay 2K Winger]

Can't speak for Fate but it's not applicable to Strange. In Strange's case he does have an inherent magical ability. The Eye of Agamotto augments his ability, but it cannot bestow the ability to use magic in of itself. Separating the eye would diminish his power, but you'd still be facing a very powerful sorcerer.

Indeed. He's the Sorcerer Supreme for a reason!

[dendawg]

DC Universe Amazon, not Classical Greek Amazon. Stay in context, hmm?

Actually I think she's leaning more toward classical since the Nu52 reboot, seeing as she's (now) explicitly a daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, and just recently assumed the mantle of God of War.

[Barracuda]

Indeed. He's the Sorcerer Supreme for a reason!

So is Dr. Fate. His title in the DC universe is also Sorcerer Supreme. And he has the same weakness; Dr. Fate IS the Helmet of Fate. He inhabits the body of whatever human is wearing it, but he cannot function as the helmet alone.

[lordlundar]

So is Dr. Fate. His title in the DC universe is also Sorcerer Supreme. And he has the same weakness; Dr. Fate IS the Helmet of Fate. He inhabits the body of whatever human is wearing it, but he cannot function as the helmet alone.

Then he is not the same as Dr. Strange. Dr. Fate is a Symbiotic Artifact. Separate the two and you have a semi-sentient helmet and an ordinary person. It's only when the helmet is worn that the person has any power and the helmet has any means of functioning at an advanced level. Think a magical version of the Lantern Power Rings.

Dr. Strange on the other hand is a very powerful sorcerer in his own right, without any magical artifacts required. He even has the ability to absorb and return magical energies on their user, an exceptionally rare ability and one that is only available naturally. The Eye of Agamotto simply increases the power he already has. Even without the Eye, Dr. Strange is still the Sorcerer Supreme, just not AS powerful as with the Eye.