Not sure how to feel about this situation...

[mjr]

DISCLAIMER: I wholly recognize that a lot of folks on gov't assistance are good, hard-working people who are trying to take care of themselves and their children, and just get by. In this case, however, I am speaking of this ONE person in this ONE instance!

Ok, here's some background.

I have a cousin who, for lack of a better way of putting it, seems like an EW to me.

She's basically dumb as a box of rocks. She may have some sort of legitimate, undiagnosed neurological/learning disorder, I don't know, but she just seems flat-out dumb to me.

I don't mean any offense to those who have friends or relatives with legitimate neurological/learning struggles. As someone who is the parent of a child with certain special needs, I understand some of the challenges that come with neurological and/or learning struggles.

Anyway, she's in her early thirties, with two kids from two separate men. I get the feeling these were one-night stands. One of the guys is a real "winner" (sarcasm), who basically doesn't provide her with any type of assistance.

She recently completed a "Basic Education" course at a nearby junior college.

I'm wholeheartedly in favor of people improving themselves (I work in an industry where I basically have to learn almost constantly).

I suppose kudos to her are in order there, but if I understand correctly what she took, it's basically "Congratulations! You now know what a ninth grader does!"

And she was relieved she passed her courses.

I believe she also receives some sort of government assistance. I only bring that up because it's relevant in this case.

End Background.

Recently on FaceBook, she was talking about how she signed her daughter up for pee-wee cheerleading. Then she basically pops onto FaceBook and asks people to buy some kind of handbag to help her daughter raise money for her cheerleading stuff. But it wasn't "Hey, my daughter is selling some fundraising stuff if anyone is interested." The tone was more of a "begging for people to buy stuff" kind of thing. She also asked for "donations".

Is that the norm on FaceBook? I'm not really much into Social Media. I don't have a FaceBook account.

The Sign-up for that was something like $65. Plus some additional stuff that added up to near $150 or so.

She also did something very similar. She posted that she shelled out $95 (that she most likely didn't have) so her son could play pee-wee (American) football.

Now, I wouldn't really have an issue with this if I didn't get an EW vibe from the posts.

I also believe (but don't know this for a fact) that she has some sort of SmartPhone. I believe this because she recently went to a concert and posted photos on her FB page that look like they were taken with a SmartPhone.

Now, I don't begrudge anyone having a SmartPhone. I think they're cool. I don't own one, as I think some of the data plans with my current carrier are a ripoff. So I just have a "basic" flip phone (Hey! Don't laugh!!).

She also posted something I guess she got from some site somewhere that reads, verbatim:

"If your rent and bills are paid, food on the table, clothes on your back, and you don't have any money left over, don't let anyone tell you you're broke cause you took care of BUSINESS!!" (edited for grammar)

And while it's a nice sentiment, you are indeed broke if that's the case. And it's KNOWN. No amount of sugar-coating changes that fact.

She also talks about all the stuff she does "for [her] babies". Which again, is all well and good if she didn't make it sound like some extraordinary effort. It's like the old Chris Rock routine where he talks about how people want credit for stuff they're supposed to do:

"I take care of my kids!"
"You're supposed to! What? You want a medal or something??"

I participated in some activities when I was younger, and my parents weren't exactly wealthy. Income wise, I think they were just barely above the line for assistance, I don't know. They weren't even middle class. I took Tae Kwon Do for 2 1/2 years, which was $20 a month. I played a season of little league baseball, which I'm sure cost money. I played soccer for a couple of seasons. And sure, we did fundraisers for the baseball and soccer, but that wasn't to buy uniforms. To my knowledge, my parents (and at some point "parent" because they divorced) didn't borrow the money for me to do these things.

But I'm getting a little off track.

I was talking to my wife about this last night. We're both torn on how to feel.

First off, we do feel bad for her kids. But moreso:

1. Is it cruel to think that she should tell her kids "no" to these activities? Primarily because she can't afford it (we doubt she'll sell enough for the fundraiser to cover costs), and should be using that money for other things? Part of me (and my wife) thinks this way, and we feel a little heartless for it.

2. Is it OK for her to let her kids do these things, even though she really can't afford it?

The wife and I feel bad for her kids, but her EW attitude (and the whole "Look at me! Look at what a great mom I am!" attitude) has not garnered her any real sympathy from us.

If I have offended anyone in this post, please accept my sincere apology, as that was not my intent.

[Gizmo]

No offense here since I recently had the same discussion about someone who tried to get a group of enthusiasts to rally round to buy his son a full set of kit. Our responses were a) the kit isn't fully necessary for the activity and b) umm, get him a bloody job so he can pay for it. A lot of us in that group don't have the level of kit he was saying his son "needed".

As for this 1 and 2 I agree with you - realism over materialism and activity inclusion. I remember being a teenager and getting told I could have either of a bike OR a years ballet and to choose. Taught me a lesson about being sensible!

[AnaKhouri]

This reminds me of my son. Sometimes, if we were in a store for an unexpectedly long time, or had to wait an unusually long time for an appointment, I would reward him with a treat. One day after we ran in and out of the post office he said, 'Where's my reward for being good?' I just stared at him and replied, 'You don't get rewarded for doing what you're supposed to do. Rewards are for going above and beyond, kid."

But some adults don't seem to understand this yet either.

When I was growing up, I didn't get the piano lessons, horseback riding lessons, or martial arts lessons I wanted, because we couldn't afford it. Sure I was disappointed but my mom never went begging to indulge me. And now as an adult it makes me keep a careful budget, sacrifice and work hard to ensure my kids can do some of what they want. No, #1 Son isn't getting that 3DS he wants anytime soon (or the Kindle or the horse or etc etc) but he can play tee-ball over the summer. When he gets older, he'll probably have to choose between activities he wants to do as well. I see nothing wrong with frankly discussing finances and what we can afford once the kid is old enough to understand.

Your cousin may be dumb, and no one can help how intelligent they are so that's not her fault, but feeling like the world owes you something no matter what your circumstances is just absurd. I agree with patiokitty that you should just ignore her pleas for money (unless she contacts you directly). Her problems are hers to work out, not yours.

[sms001]

The biggest bummer about this is that those extracurricular activities may be just what those kids need to break out of what is often a cycle of marginal existence. Or, it may reinforce the EW complex: "We couldn't afford it, so other people did it for us..." Those two outcomes make deciding #1 or #2 really tough, but I'll give it a shot.

No, you shouldn't feel cruel. If these were close friends (children included) and you were well off and decided not to "give" then it might be. Given what you've said, I think you've made a sound financial decision, prioritizing your own family first (as you should) over the dubious gain of helping her kids.

Yes, it's ok for her to want her kids to experience more than the bare minimum in life. As I said, it may help, and maybe she herself is trying to break out of the same pattern that engendered her (like completing that Basic Education course). She may not know any other way to go about these things, like strict budgeting, having the kids pitch in on some basic home industry or paper route type work, and deferring non-essentials.

Finally, we need a word for what you felt the need to explain as "dumb." Most of us on this site are certainly familiar with the kind of person you're talking about, and all too often it isn't that they have a disability, it's that they WON'T think; they've decided that it's too much work or convinced themselves that they can not do it. Acognitive maybe? The way we distinguish between won't read and can't read with aliterate and illiterate?

[Gizmo]

It just pisses me off when I see people publicly posting that they have not been able to pay the bills in order to make sure their kids have the latest and greatest game system, or for some particular brand name clothing

I do remember one friend who at the beginning of the month she was boasting about her new fridge freezer she'd bought (uber, better than mine and we weren't just ekeing by) and she bought it retail.

2 weeks into the month was swearing blind that its not HER fault she doesn't have the money to pay bill X and Y despite her promises....

[mjr]

I don't think this would bother me as much as it does if she weren't on gov't assistance. I think that may be the issue.

It's not that she's putting her kids in these activities even though she can't afford it, it's that she's putting them in activities even though she can't afford itand she's on gov't assistance.

[Seshat]

MJR:

The government assistance thing makes this a fratching worthy topic.

Now, I do have things I would like to say about it, so I'm going to double-link (here to fratching, fratching to here) and then say my piece there.

People get very heated about govt assistance and what such people should spend money on, so since I KNOW from experience exactly how this is going to go ... fratching.

Fratching Thread here.