Language/Math learning resources for my youngster?

[mjr]

Ok, my son has gotten into the Japanese language.

We just bought "Human Japanese" from Amazon, but it hasn't shipped yet.

We're looking for stuff that's not overly-adult (i.e. monochrome and "wordy"), colorful, and somewhat engaging.

He's also informed me that he wants "math stuff" for Christmas.

He's only 9, so we're rather that he's asking for stuff like this rather than toys or expensive video game systems (that's for me to ask for )

Anyway, anyone know of any good resources? Preferably books or software? We want to avoid stuff like Rosetta Stone.

We thought about Manga as far as the Japanese goes, but we don't know what might be age appropriate or not.

[BlaqueKatt]

if you have a nintendo DS there's this: my japanese coach

nintendo also had a math trainer for ds

for math:
Karate Math
also amazon has tons of software

[EricKei]

A couple of issues with manga/anime:

- The Japanese concept of "appropriate for kids" can be somewhat different from what you're used to. Review anything you plan to give them before buying it. Prime example: "Crayon Shin-Chan" is aimed at younger kids, but one of its more notorious jokes has the titular kid doing his "elephant" impression...by tropping trou. o_O

- Almost all manga/anime are written at a lower "politeness level" (keigo) than everyday speech. They're still good for basic vocabulary, and lower-age ones will likely be written mostly in kana (no or few kanji), which may be easier to read for beginners.

I talked with someone about this elsewhere recently, it may help to clarify my meaning. Keep in mind that my own Japanese is now rusty enough to be "tourist level" now, but I still remember a little I think we do have a couple of actual Japanese speakers on the boards here, tho (if any of you are reading this, please feel free to chip in/correct me).

-- WARNING -- WALL O'TEXT --

The comment from another user that got me going:

But seriously, they probably would sound more colloquial and rude than they might want to. If you learned Japanese from anime and then tried to apply it in a business setting, you'll probably get some strange looks.

My responses as we went along:

At best


I had a Japanese class back in the 90's, where we had to create and memorize "skits" and perform them in front of the class. We warned the teacher that the dialogue we had come up with was meant to sound like an anime character (the character was supposed to represent a stereotypical obnoxious foreigner). She allowed it, with a friendly advisory to the entire class: "Never, ever speak like this around anyone who understands Japanese. Ever. They will laugh at you."


TL;DR - Would you talk like a Looney Tunes character in English? Anime-speak sounds worse to a Japanese speaker.

Keeping in mind that my classes were in the 90's, and I am definitely no authority on the subject...The major offenders, from what I have gathered (from my teachers, from a now-dead magazine aimed at learners of the language called Mangajin, from simply reading the odd post from time to time from both native and EN/JP Bilingual speakers):

• Using plain form verbs when it is inappropriate (which is often, unless you are using it to indicate past tense or explaining something, and, even then, there are rules). E.g., How almost every male character speaks in Shonen. If the anime/manga in question is focused on martial arts, just save yourself some time and assume that anything the main hero suffers from this problem, along with most of the others. TL;DR; Don't talk like Ranma or Goku. Ever.
• Using overly-polite verb forms where it is inappropriate.
• Using inappropriate pronouns, such as "omae" (really informal "you") or "anata" (really really familiar "you")
• Super special with chocolate cherries on top bonuses:
• a) Manga and anime are popular there, but not universally. If in doubt, ask a friend who DOES know the company/people you'll be around whether you should reference it.
• b) "Otaku" in the West generally means something between "fan" and "hardcore fan." Calling someone an "Otaku" in Japan means "avoid that guy"/hopeless fanboy, and implies worse (think antisocial Trekkie (yes, Trekkie, not -er; there's a difference) who smells bad, has never held a job, still lives in his Mom's basement, who only sees the light of day when his parents make him come upstairs so they can hose the place...and the Otaku... down, so he can get back to writing his Kirk/Odo slash all day long...) -- it is a serious insult, so never refer to yourself by that term around...well..anyone who does not think of it in the "Western" sense. And even then...

(explanation of what I meant by "plain form -- how most anime/manga characters speak):

As I'm assuming you're an anime fan -- the one you will likely hear most often is "da" (instead of "desu") near the end of a sentence. Both are forms of "to be" (verbs do not conjugate by person in Japanese); "desu" is the "standard/everyday polite form," (read: generally safe to use, so use that if you're ever unsure, and the message will get across even if it sounds awkward) and "da" is the plain form. Other verbs work similarly.
The simple version would be: When used inappropriately, "plain form" is just that - plain. Abrupt. Even crude in some situations. Kinda sorta like "yeah/uh-huh" instead of "yes" in English, but the distinction is sharper. Keep in mind that using the wrong "politeness level" in Japanese can directly affect the listener's perception of your terms/politeness or respect level/etc. Just using plain where polite is called for can be inherently rude, sounding rough, brash, or crude. (For this reason, fan translations in particular will often throw in curse words that aren't actually there in order to emphasize the distinction when a character does this).
The thing is, just to be confusing, there are certain situations where you are supposed to use plain form instead of polite/normal, such as when you are speaking in past tense -- which is just as much a pain in the arse as it is in other languages, or explaining something (sometimes heard as "something something n da.").

[AccountingDrone]

I wish I was in Fresno, I could ask my brother in law his advice - he had a thing for Japan when growing up and back about 10 or so years ago he was fluent enough that on the phone his GF's father thought he was from Tokyo. Not bad for a 6'5" half irish roaring giant of a kid.

Hm, advice wise - how about surfing over to something like About.com and checking their Japan section for advice?

[Seshat]

I'm in Australia, so the specific resources I used (when my niece and nephew were that age) are probably $$$shipping and time costly for you; but I'm going to post them anyway; they may give you inspiration.

http://www.csiroshop.com/
https://shop.abc.net.au/t/brands/abc-for-kids

If the ABC for Kids is a bit under his age level, go to the main ABC shop: they do have things for the full age spectrum, they just seem to categorise them on the website as 'pre-teen' and then 'everyone'. Annoying.


As soon as he's an appropriate age for them, give him this guy's books: http://www.physicsofsuperheroes.com/
He's a physics professor who decided to make physics fun: he uses superheros and events in superhero comics as examples.

For instance, one of the sections I read before I sent my nephew 'the physics of superheros' was his explanation of why one of Spiderman's friends died even though he caught her with his webbing. Spidey didn't allow for the negative acceleration from terminal velocity to zero.
That's .. pretty abrupt, the way I put it. Kakalios did a much better job.

You could do a lot worse than to simply make sure one of this guy's books - whichever interests YOU - is in the family bookshelf, and being read. Trust me, if TPoSH is a good example of his work, reading it will be both fun and interesting.
I'm sure your boy will at least start to browse the book.

[Tama]

I'd suggest perhaps...if you have the money...getting him a Japanese DS and buying him games in Japanese. (This will also allow him to get games early!)

I'm sure YouTube also has news clips and things like that in Japanese.

[fireheart]

If you have an iPad, a brilliant app for helping him get familiarised with the alphabets is hiragana pixel party. The app does katakana as well, but no kanji.

As for maths stuff, all I can think of is things that are to do with shapes. Minecraft paper folding things are good (it's not all cubes either), tessellation blocks, stuff like that is all I can think of.

[Kal]

If I can suggest something, get him a soruban. It's a Japanese abacus that seems to be taught in schools. There are numerous youtube videos of their mental maths competitions where they kind of use a mental soruban (you can see their fingers flicking as they count) to deal with huge numbers.
Also a few websites around that you can use to learn how the soruban works yourself - it's pretty good fun, I've done it myself. I have to admit though, I'm never going to be as good at it as a 5 year old child.
Teaching video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkUdjlQy3rk
Example of the mental maths here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFmDvAnIXo8

[EricKei]

Counting Kingdom is aimed at younger players/learners, but could be fun anyway

[Seshat]

Craft project: make an abacus. A traditional western one, if you like. Then both of you learn how to use it.

Using it for addition/subtraction is easy and intuitive. Using it for multiplication/division will teach you (both) arithmatic on a deep level.


Then get a copy of Lewis Carroll's math-problem stories, and use the abacus to solve them.

The Carroll problems don't require algebraic, geometric or suchlike tools to solve them; though in some cases it's easier to solve them if you have those tools.


Also note that the Carroll books teach math concepts. You have to read the Carroll books, though, not the Disney - the Disney leaves out some of the key elements.

[mjr]

Thanks everyone for all the great advice! :-)

We're going to have to keep a lot of those things in mind. Definitely gives us a lot to consider.

[EricKei]

The magazine that I mentioned, Mangajin, may have archives floating around out there, so that may be worth researching if you are interested. It had cultural articles, manga with Japanese & romaji transcriptions, and English, all side-by-side -- they even threw in the opposite, from time to time, featuring American comics such as "Garufiido," about a certain fat orange cat . It was aimed at beginners, and also includes notes on context. They also used specific, very generalized "politeness levels," which can be quite useful in getting the hang of what terms to use, when. iirc: PL1 - rude, crude, and socially unacceptable - avoid ^_^; often rendered as curse-filled speech when translated, even if no actual "curse words" are there; PL2 - plain-form speech; PL3 - everyday/standard "polite" speech; PL4 - humble/elevated politeness - addressing a superior or other person whom you would call "Sir/Ma'am" IRL, such as a boss, or a host when visiting someone else's home.

(Just as a side note -- per the site rules, please, no links unless you have some way of showing that the archive is legal -- e.g., a publisher's note or something similar)