No, You Don't!

[Dilorenzo]

So, the other day I run up to the local Microcenter. It's closer to where I work than our home, so I figured I'd head out after work, stop there, get home, and since it's on the way, it wouldn't be so bad.

Took me an hour to get there, where it should have taken 20 minutes, and I'd already had someone not paying attention to the road almost plow into the back of me.

All this meant that I was resolute to the idea that I would dash in, get my wife's new computer, which we had already ordered online, and dash out again. No interaction beyond the necessary, which, well, became kind of a shame.

As I get up to the register, the girl there takes my printout for the computer, says she'll go get it. I'm doing my best impression of a pleasant person, and smile and thank her.

That's when I hear, a little louder than necessary, "No, you don't!" from the register behind me.

Of course, I turn around and look. There's a fairly innocuous looking man, maybe mid sixties, glaring daggers at the girl at his register. I see the girl is holding the mans credit/debit card, whatever.

She turns it around to show him, and even with my poor eyesight I can see the back isn't signed at all.

Ah, I think, one of those.

She starts to say something, but he cuts her off.

"You don't need to see my ID."

Dude, you may have a white beard, but you are not Obi-Wan. You're not even Jar Jar.

She tries to say something again, and he cuts her off again.

"If I was buying this," indicating the cheap looking speakers he was buying, "from Newegg they wouldn't need to see my idea."

So go to Newegg, no?

The girl, obviously knowing that she isn't going to be able to say anything, motions over a wall of meat wearing a tie. He looked better suited to security than to management, but that's what he was.

He tries explaining now that, as the back of the card isn't signed, they are required to check the ID of the person s they can ensure that it isn't stolen.

"No you don't! You don't! It's a contract between Visa and me, you do not need to see my ID! If I shop online, they don't check. You don't need to either. Does Greg still work here? He can tell you who I am!"

The manager and the girl at the register looked at each other, both thoroughly tired of it all. As bad as I feel about it, I'm thoroughly entertained. I've never seen one of his kind in the wild, after all, full of righteous indignation that he was being asked to present a document identifying himself.

"You don't need to see my ID," the man says again, absolutely sure of himself.

At this point, the girl who had gone to get my computer. She'd been able to see all of this from the all of 20 feet away she had been, and asks me to see my payment method and ID.

"Sure," I say, loud enough to carry, "here's my card and my drivers license." Girl checks them, hands them back, and prints out the receipt.

I look over again and the old man has his shoulders slumped over. I think he may have finally realized he was causing a scene for no good reason, but now there really wasn't a way out of it for him. The manager had his card in hand, gone back to his little podium, and was on the phone. Whatever was going on, it was going to probably eat up another 30 minutes of his life, and all for a pair of probably not more than $20 speakers.

I left, feeling pretty good that so much of this mans time was going to be wasted for no real good reason, and judging from the expression on the managers face, he certainly wasn't going to get his way.

Of course, then I took a wrong turn, got lost, and spent another hour on the road.

[ralerin]

Yelling dude is technically correct, they do not need to see his ID. BUT. Consumers who sign their card "See ID" or don't sign it at all are using an invalid card, as the companies do not consider this to be a valid card. The signature on the back of the card is supposed to be protected by the card company's contract between store and company, and as such, if the card is signed, no cashier is supposed to ask for ID at all. Even if it's a suspicious amount or transaction.

[PepperElf]

The problem was that his card wasn't signed.

[Crossbow]

If his card wasn't signed, then it's not a contract between him and Visa. Personally, I wouldn't accept the card at all without a signature. One of the computer stores I used to work at ages ago did exactly that. No signature, no sale, no exceptions.

When I first read the title of the thread, I thought it had to do with MicroCenter checking bags on leaving the store. I won't get into fratching territory on that....

[Teskeria]

And these non-signers are too stupid to realize it is a lot easier for a crook to just sign in their own handwriting. Then if the cashier compare the signatures, guess what? they match.

[Merriweather]

I have to admit, it still amazes me how heated some people get over ID & signed or not signed credit card issues. I get there are opposing points of view - sign or not sign, show or not show, and from where I stand, both sides have valid points, both sides have flaws in their logic, and neither way will end fraud 100%. Which way is best, which way is worse, right or wrong - it's all totally irrelevant anyway at the store level.

At the store level, all that's relevant is that store's policy. End of discussion. Right or wrong, agreed with or not, the store, not the customer, makes that policy. Doesn't matter what the customer thinks. Doesn't matter what the person behind the counter thinks either. Does the SC really think that some average counter clerk has the ability to change a policy put into place by the corporation/owner? Or that they'll risk their job to cave in to the SC? That clerk is stuck between a rock & a hard place - corporate says do one thing, customer says do another. Bottom line - who's name is on the paycheck? Since it ain't the customer's, but corporates, guess who wins?

Why do SC's waste their own time fighting a losing battle against the wrong person? If they feel so strongly, they could write a letter to corporate, call the credit card company, email their congressman, post things on Facebook, stand in Hyde Park on a soapbox, but stop bothering the poor employees!

Oops, sorry, I keep insisting on applying real-world logic to SC-land, where logic & reason are considered acts of treason.

[PepperElf]

The problem with that is that "local store policy" can't negate rules set by higher authorities. Kinda like how "store policy" can't override the law either.

So if a corporation has agreed to some policy that says "We accept Canadian money" and the local store says "no we don't!" then the corporation's policy is the one that's suppose to stand.

And in some cases it's not really store policy at all, but something that an individual decided to enforce on their own. And that, even more so, cannot trump corporate policy.


Now technically you can turn the entire transaction away if it's unsigned, but most stores don't want to lose the sales and will accept the ID to check the signature & name against.

But a local store insisting that they have to check all IDs just because they want to (assuming it's not a sale of age-restricted materials) is in violation of the merchant agreement. As to how far up a transgression goes, it depends on how far the customer wants to take it I assume, and iirc there are penalties against the store/corporation for violations. There are some who would do that just to prove a point.

[Dave1982]

Alright folks, we've been down this particular road many many MANY times before.

Let's stick to the sucky behavior, and leave the larger credit card signature debate to Fratching where it belongs.

[wolfie]

Let's stick to the sucky behavior, and leave the larger credit card signature debate to Fratching where it belongs.

There's already a thread for this on Fratching, so people don't even need to go through the (minimal) effort to start one.

[ADeMartino]

Not encouraging further debate about the topic, but I do have a question.

I get that credit card companies have a clause in the merchant agreements that specifically forbids the store from asking for ID to use a valid card. My question is: WHY do they put that clause in there? It seems to me that asking for ID under certain circumstances could help prevent credit card fraud and/or potentially save the credit card companies a lot of grief and/or money and would therefore be a good thing. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[dalesys]

I...a clause ...forbids the store from asking for ID to use a valid card...WHY?

Like some other clauses (no surcharge for card instead of cash), it is intended to encourage the cardholder to "pay with plastic" by minimizing hassles/irritants that might reduce card use.

[ADeMartino]

Ah, okay. That make sense, I suppose. It still seems like there should be some provision for dealing with 'questionable' transactions, but hey, I'm hardly an authority on finance. I'm guessing there are reasons.

[Kitten in the box]

we ask to see IDs on credit cards. This is policy. You wouldn't believe how many stolen credit cards run through our store. If the numbers do not match up correctly or they "forgot"their ID then it raises suspicion and we call our manager for assistance. Usually we tell them the manager has to "override" the computer and we need to hold onto the card so he can run it though. (in reality what we are saying is: Our manager is going to come up here and look at the card. then the police are going to be called.) Most of the time the customers say "nevermind" and leave before they hand over the card. Only a few fell for it and handed the card over thinking they could pull one over on us. they got busted.)

[Andara Bledin]

I just started using my card again recently. Was kind of startled when the clerk asked for my ID, since my debit is one of those picture cards.

Back OT, as I've mentioned in other such threads, the front-line employee is not the place to be making a stand against whatever your pet peeve of the day is.

^-.-^

[Sarthor]

I once tried to use a non-signed card. I had received it in the mail that morning and was in a rush to get to work so I just stuck it in my wallet alongside my old, and still valid, card.

Anyway, after work I went to the supermarket and accidentally used the new card instead of the old. The cashier noticed it wasn't signed and pointed it out. I explained what had happened and suggested I use my old card instead but I assume she was worn-out and just wanted me gone so she said to just sign the new card, which I did.

The thing that stayed with me was that she then took the card I had just signed and compared it with the receipt that she had also just seen me sign. No suck, but it just struck me as funny.