Ontario drivers please read

[wolfie]

From what I've seen on CS, I'm not the only one from Ontario, Canada here - and I'd like to alert the others to a change in the Drive Clean program.

As of January 1st, the dynamometer test will be gone, and in its place will be 2 different tests, depending on the vehicle (I'm assuming tests for light-duty diesels will be unchanged).

1998 and newer vehicles other than Lexus and Toyota:
The test will involve a hookup to the ODB II port, and will be harder to pass, since instead of a "snapshot" on test day it will pull historical data out of your ECM. Lexus and Toyota don't get this test because they have a computer glitch that interferes with it.

1997 and older, plus all Lexus and Toyota:
The curb idle test will continue, but the dyno test will be replaced by a fast idle test (revving the engine with no load). The fast idle will be a "2-gas" test (hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide only). Since the NOx test is the one that was the hardest for older cars to pass (my results: curb idle had 27 PPM HC out of 200 PPM allowed, CO was 0.41/1.00, dyno test had 31/68 HC, 0.04/0.38 CO, 523/526 NOx), the new test will be easier to pass.

Summary: If you have a 1998 or newer vehicle (other than Lexus or Toyota) and need to go through Drive Clean before you renew your registration next year, DO IT BEFORE THE END OF THIS YEAR. If you have a 1997 or older vehicle, or a Lexus or Toyota, and need to go through Drive Clean before you renew your registration next year, wait until the new year.

[Crossbow]

Interesting about the Toyota/Lexus glitch. We have something similar down here in OH, and my Toyota goes through the ODB II test every other year with no problem. I wonder what the difference is...

[Geek King]

Interesting about the Toyota/Lexus glitch. We have something similar down here in OH, and my Toyota goes through the ODB II test every other year with no problem. I wonder what the difference is...

Interesting. They cancelled the emissions tests down here in SW Ohio after a lot of fraud came to light. Some testing centeres were passing cars that shouldn't for a *cough* donation, and others were failing good cars, and suggesting they go to specific places to be "fixed"--lining the owner's pocket for a non-repair.

[PepperElf]

Interesting. They cancelled the emissions tests down here in SW Ohio after a lot of fraud came to light. Some testing centeres were passing cars that shouldn't for a *cough* donation, and others were failing good cars, and suggesting they go to specific places to be "fixed"--lining the owner's pocket for a non-repair.

In all honesty I think my car may have been wrongfully passed too. I was never fully clear on why I was getting an emissions waiver for NY (also OBDII) - something about having sunk enough money into other repairs my car needed to pass inspection.

But they likely considered the emissions to be pretty much moot since I was moving out of state within a month anyway. So the main issue was car safety.

... especially since my new state doesn't give a fuck - not just about emissions, but about ANY form of inspection. Well, I take that back - inspections ARE required when transferring registration over, but I don't really consider reading the odometer as an "inspection".

so yeah, they may have just passed me simply because it wasn't going to be their problem much longer.

[Crossbow]

Interesting. They cancelled the emissions tests down here in SW Ohio after a lot of fraud came to light. Some testing centeres were passing cars that shouldn't for a *cough* donation, and others were failing good cars, and suggesting they go to specific places to be "fixed"--lining the owner's pocket for a non-repair.

I remember seeing that report as well, but NE Ohio still has them. In fact, according to the website, ONLY NE Ohio has them anymore. Joy.

[Pixilated]

Thanks for posting, Wolfie. And thank you, Toyota, for your computer glitches.

[laborcat]

Interesting. They cancelled the emissions tests down here in SW Ohio after a lot of fraud came to light. Some testing centeres were passing cars that shouldn't for a *cough* donation, and others were failing good cars, and suggesting they go to specific places to be "fixed"--lining the owner's pocket for a non-repair.

My brother-in-law used to work for echeck here and Geek King is right... if you knew someone that worked there you could pretty much get by with an invoice saying you spent x amount of dollars in repairs and they would give you a waiver. That's how he managed to pass his piece of crap car every year. When it was time for me or hubmonster to have our cars done we'd just let him drive our car to work for the day. Come to think of it, I don't think we ever paid for our inspections, either. Oops.

[PepperElf]

invoice saying you spent x amount of dollars in repairs and they would give you a waiver.

That's how it was explained to me too. It confused me but I had so much other stuff on my mind that I didn't even question if it was legal or not until well after I'd moved.

[wolfie]

After repeatedly getting answers to everything EXCEPT the question I was asking, I finally got the official story from the Drive Clean people. Here's the scoop, straight from the horse's assesmouth:

1997 or older cars: You will need to pass a 2 gas (HC and CO) test at idle and at a higher engine speed (I believe it's around 2000 RPM).

1998 or newer cars: They will read information from the OBD port. An active "check engine" light (no matter what causes it) is an automatic fail. There have been a number of cases where cars have reported "not ready" on the test (various counters haven't reset themselves after either clearing codes, or disconnecting the battery). In the event of a "not ready", you need a re-test. If the re-test (provided it meets certain conditions, including a minimum of 24 hours and 30 kilometers after the initial test) also reports "not ready", you get a conditional pass. If the purpose of the test is for the sale of the vehicle (i.e. a conditional pass is not adequate), you can get the 2-gas test done, and (if passed) it will be treated as a pass.

Here's where it gets interesting:

The reason for requiring a "pass" before a vehicle can be sold is so the purchaser doesn't get stuck with expensive emission-related repairs. This "workaround" leaves a BIG opening for unscrupulous dealers. They acquire (trade-in, or at the auction) a 1998 or newer car, and get it tested. It fails the OBD test due to NOx, and would require expensive repairs in order to pass. They run it through an offline 2-gas tester, and it would pass. They "repair" it (actually, just clear the codes) and immediately take it for a test. It reports as "not ready". They do the absolute minimum before taking it for a re-test, and again it reports "not ready". They get the 2-gas test done, and it passes. They then sell the car, which has "passed" Drive Clean. Needless to say, when the purchaser takes it through Drive Clean the first time it's due after they buy it, it still has the problem that caused it to fail, and they're faced with a large repair bill - the exact issue which requiring pre-sale testing was supposed to prevent.

If you're looking into buying a 1998 or newer car, write into your offer to purchase that it is conditional on the car passing the OBD test, NOT the 2-gas "workaround".

[TawnyMyst]

Here's where it gets interesting:

The reason for requiring a "pass" before a vehicle can be sold is so the purchaser doesn't get stuck with expensive emission-related repairs. This "workaround" leaves a BIG opening for unscrupulous dealers. They acquire (trade-in, or at the auction) a 1998 or newer car, and get it tested. It fails the OBD test due to NOx, and would require expensive repairs in order to pass. They run it through an offline 2-gas tester, and it would pass. They "repair" it (actually, just clear the codes) and immediately take it for a test. It reports as "not ready". They do the absolute minimum before taking it for a re-test, and again it reports "not ready". They get the 2-gas test done, and it passes. They then sell the car, which has "passed" Drive Clean. Needless to say, when the purchaser takes it through Drive Clean the first time it's due after they buy it, it still has the problem that caused it to fail, and they're faced with a large repair bill - the exact issue which requiring pre-sale testing was supposed to prevent.

If you're looking into buying a 1998 or newer car, write into your offer to purchase that it is conditional on the car passing the OBD test, NOT the 2-gas "workaround".

All of which is giving my brother a massive headache. He's a class A mechanic working for a dealership whose owner is notorious for taking any trade-in. He's also the mechanic responsible for doing the Drive Clean tests, as he is the only one qualified that works there. A lot of people are taking advantage of his bosses policy and trading in their vehicles when they fail, rather than fixing them. His boss accepts the trade in and then gets pissed when my brother won't pass them by the work around so he can sell them.

My brothers opinion is that the dealership should fix them and build the cost of repairs into the resell price. He's not going to risk his ticket for a shady boss when he knows he can walk at any time. He also has his boss over the barrel as he is the only one qualified to do warranty work for the dealership brand. He walks, the boss loses his dealership if the company finds out.

[EricKei]

He walks, the boss loses his dealership if the company finds out.

If he does actually walk, I would say that making sure The Company finds out about it -- and WHY he chose to do so -- would be a top priority...More to the point, he should do so BEFORE the dealer says anything; he could just hire another properly-qualified mechanic and then make up some false pretense about yer brother, and call it in. Sadly, the first person to report something like this is often the one who is actually believed >_>