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  • Pass or fail: both options are crap.

    I've been meaning to make a thread about this for awhile. This is about whether my husband should stay or get out of the military.

    He isn't up yet for reenlist to make the call. Instead, it's the PRT. For those who don't know it's the physical readiness test, to keep our sailors health in check. If you fail it three times in a three year span (or three in a row, don't remember), you get discharged medically.

    As you can guess this next PRT, if he fails, it will be his third and he will get booted.

    Now, he is actually debating whether to just fail and get out or pass. As the command he's under have douchey officers that didn't make time during the drydock schedule to PT (like they were supposed to, in the rule book as husband stated). Their excuse "Make your own time to workout!" Which isn't possible because they're aren't enough hours in the day with work hours he's had and to work out and it's only gotten worse. That excuse caused his 2nd PRT fail last fall.

    I wouldn't be making a thread if there's a reason to why he would want to fail.

    If he does pass, then he has to go overseas to Bahrain for a year. He doesn't want to leave me by myself and this would be the first time I would be living in the house by myself for a very long period.

    While this doesn't seem like a big deal, here's another factor: I'm as of now, 21 weeks pregnant with our first child (a boy). If husband passes, he goes to Bahrain and misses the birth and most of our son's first year of his life.

    Husband never liked sea duty, I remember how depressed and distant he became when he was in Japan and when he deployed in Bahrain the first time. He almost lost his mind from the stress of sea duty and he promised himself he would do everything in his power to always find orders to avoid as much sea duty as possible.

    He doesn't want to leave me by myself or miss the beginning of his son's life as I do have some difficulties functioning by myself or an extended period of time when not working. (Work put me on maternity leave) But he also knows that if he does fail, we will have to move and lose our benefits. Possibly during the most financial crunching time which would be RIGHT before I give birth.

    I have urged him that he needs to pass or try because if he doesn't, they might think he really did fail on purpose and will nail him with something worse and possibly not have the medical discharge.

    It's a tough call. He knows what he signed up for 8 years ago but things have changed for him. I know it's supposed to be tough for military who have families, I'm ready to do my best and put up with that along with raising a child when he's not around. I'd be lying if I wasn't scared. But I'm more scared of what will happen if he fails.

    Thoughts? Hugs are nice too.

  • #2
    Wow, that is a REALLY tough situation. I'm sorry you guys have to go through it.

    Could he try to pass, but in the meantime- before the test- look around at possible jobs he is qualified for in case he fails or decides to get out? The insurance thing is a kick in the nuts; having a baby is expensive, and if you didn't have insurance through your job before, no way in hell will you get it now being pregnant.

    On the other hand, I always feel terrible for servicemen who miss large portions of their children's lives, espcially the birth, because that is no something you ever stop regretting.

    I think you need to look at your finances. Have you enough savings to pay for independent insurance until he picks up another job? Can you afford an apartment for a few months with no incomce coming in, or are there relatives who might let you stay with them a little while?

    If he does pass, are there people who will be there for you during the birth/newborn days? Because quite honestly, I would have lost my mind if I had to take care of my newborn son by myself.

    I'm sure other people will have better points/suggestions, but maybe these will be a start. Good luck whatever happens!
    https://www.facebook.com/authorpatriciacorrell/

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    • #3
      We're completely alone up here. My family is in AZ while his immediate is in Houston. His mom comes out whenever he deploys so she'll be around. However there will be a time she'll want to go back to Houston for a little while, leaving me alone.

      I'm already thinking of what we could do if he gets out. He's been thinking about it a lot longer than I have. Being the smart man he is

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      • #4
        I hope you don't mind but I went to talk to sometimes who is a officer that deals with PT fails and other stuff. They gave me a whole bunch of info which I'll put in quotes and then I will give my personal thought.


        5. Policy. All Navy AC and RC personnel shall meet minimum physical fitness standards for continued naval service.

        a. Command Physical Training (PT) Program. Commanding officers (COs) are responsible and accountable for the physical fitness of their personnel and shall establish and maintain an
        effective year-round physical readiness program. Physical fitness shall be integrated into the workweek, consistent with mission and operational requirements. To maintain health and
        decrease the risk of chronic disease:

        (1) Members shall comply with medical screening requirements for participation in all physical training consistent with this instruction.

        (2) Members should participate in moderate activity at least:

        3
        (a) Two hours and 30 minutes (150 minutes) per week
        i.e., 50 minutes three times per week or 75 minutes two times per week; plus

        (b) Perform strength training exercises at least
        twice per week to work all major muscle groups.

        Excerpt from

        OPNAVINST 6110.1J

        11 JUL 2011

        Air Force Fitness:

        Responsibilities:
        Member.
        1.26.1. Maintains individual year-round physical fitness through self-directed and unit-based fitness programs and proper nutrition standards IAW Chapter 2.
        1.26.2. Remains current as defined in para 2.12.
        1.26.3. Completes FSQ IAW para 2.3.2. Note: Failure to complete FSQ does not invalidate the FA.
        1.26.4. If entered into intervention program(s), meets all program requirements IAW Chapter 5.
        Responsibilities:


        l. Individual Members shall:
        (1) Participate in a year-round physical fitness program to meet Navy fitness and BCA standards.
        (2) Review and verify accuracy of PFA data in PRIMS within 60 days of the PFA cycle.
        (3) Maintain an updated annual PHA.
        (4) Complete a NAVPERS 6110/3 for every PFA cycle.
        (5) Fulfill all FEP requirements in the event of a PFA failure.


        Separation:

        c. Failure to Meet PFA Standards. Meeting minimum PFA standards are a condition of continued naval service. Members with PFA failures will be subject to administrative actions. Members failing to meet BCA or PRT standards shall participate in an FEP. Members failing to meet PFA standards three times in the most recent 4-year period shall be processed for
        administrative separation (ADSEP) from the Navy.

        Okay lots of stuff and I'm sorry for the lots of stuff. Now my view on this is he needs to pass this next pta and then he needs to try and give some input on where he goes next. They may say there is no choice but sometimes you can get a choice but you need to request it first. I wish you both the best of luck and I offer many many hugs. I hope this doesn't go the way of dismissal.

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        • #5
          One thing to keep in mind is if he intentionally fails and/or his command thinks he did they can give him a discharge that is not classified as honorable (many different ones that I won't go into). This will effect ALL of his post service life, from VA benefits (health care, VA loan, GI Bill) to anything involving the government.

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          • #6
            I think they're more trying to figure out if he should try to figure out how to carve out more time to PT in his off time so he can pass, or just leave his fitness as is...and guarantee his fail.

            Since his command won't help with the PT time, they can't say he wasn't necessarily trying in the time he had available.

            All that said...I've got nothing but for you, CC.
            My NaNo page

            My author blog

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            • #7
              Thanks for the advice and comfort. I'll be looking into support groups for navy wives who would/have gone through this. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who was in a predicament of the father being absent.

              I wish there was a way to keep him here. But as from what I'm aware, if I were a high risk pregnancy (which I'm not so far) the command would give more leeway. Since I'm not, I'm thinking about possibly flying out to his deployment after childbirth, but only if it's ok with the doctor.

              Hubs answer would already be no but I don't wanna care about his answer, I want to have him hold his son far before his first birthday.

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              • #8
                http://www.militarysos.com/

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                • #9
                  20 year Navy wife here. After 3 fails you go into remedial - after the 4th fail you tend to get an 'other than honorable' discharge, if he really wants to get out he can go to the command yeoman and get a discharge manual and browse it for a reason to be discharged in such a manner that it wont fuck the rest of your life up.

                  TBH, if he didn't want to get deployed he should have gone with the Air Force, they rarely get deployed.

                  And submariners tend to have the highest deployment rate, they just can't say where they are going.
                  Last edited by Ree; 01-15-2013, 02:05 AM. Reason: Fixed problematic typo
                  EVE Online: 99% of the time you sit around waiting for something to happen, but that 1% of action is what hooks people like crack, you don't get interviewed by the BBC for a WoW raid.

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                  • #10
                    First question is has this ultimatum been presented in writing to your husband? He should have received counciling statements or other paperwork regarding this if they are serious about kicking him out, as the decision ultimately rests on an O6 or above and they require paper trails for something like this. But it could be different in Navy (I was Army) Kpzra is right about post-military benefits though, a medical discharge is not the same as an honorable discharge. To some employers the type of discharge could very well decide wither he gets the job or not. Kprza is also right about the possibility of some post-military benefits being diminished or lost. Generally speaking if he can avoid anything other than an honorable discharge, he should. If however, if that doesn't happen and he gets med-boarded out, all is not lost as far as insurance goes. check out the Continued Health Care Benefit Program, I used it when Mrs. Rainman and I got pregnant right after I left the service and it's basically the same as Tricare Prime, only you have to pay something into it and you can only use it for so long (I want to say 18 months max). Finally, when I got trained as a Seperations NCO, I was taught that on average, veterans should be able to support themselves and family at their current standard of living for 6 months after seperatation from the military. If you guys do not have that saved, I wouldn't recommend ETSing unless you have people who can take you in, or you have a home and a job lined up.

                    Seperation from the military is a huge adjustment, and while I am sure you guys will do fine should it become nessesary you want to make sure the transition is smooth as can be by being prepared. Good luck to you.
                    Last edited by Rainman; 01-15-2013, 12:23 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Quoth kpzra View Post
                      One thing to keep in mind is if he intentionally fails and/or his command thinks he did they can give him a discharge that is not classified as honorable (many different ones that I won't go into). This will effect ALL of his post service life, from VA benefits (health care, VA loan, GI Bill) to anything involving the government.
                      QFT. The military doesn't like to do medical discharges or medical retirements for other than combat related reasons. They can and will fight it tooth and nail because there are a lot of expensive bennies tied with this.

                      He's better off working his ass off to make his physical readiness, and he should document the failure of his CO to make a PT schedule; it may help him if he ends up before a medical board. If that doesn't help, documentation will help him if he gets discharged on anything other than honorable and he appeals his discharge status to the Civilian Review Board.
                      They say that God only gives us what we can handle. Apparently, God thinks I'm a bad ass.

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                      • #12
                        Quoth AccountingDrone View Post
                        TBH, if he didn't want to get deployed he should have gone with the Air Force, they rarely get deployed.

                        That's not exactly true. A group I support with cookies and well wishes deploys quite a bit. The unit had two deployments last year and is scheduled to send out three this year. On top of that, they support three operations squadrons, with less than 1/3 of the manpower they are required to do the mission. Despite that, they are consistently meeting the flying rates and leading the wing in flying hours. So please don't say they don't deploy.
                        Last edited by Aethian; 01-15-2013, 04:22 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Quoth Caffienated_Caramel View Post
                          I wish there was a way to keep him here. But as from what I'm aware, if I were a high risk pregnancy (which I'm not so far) the command would give more leeway.
                          My former spouse when he was in the Army got a "hardship deferment", as I did not drive, and was being treated for depression, that's pretty much all I can offer, other than get in contact with other wives, there should be resources on base.
                          Honestly.... the image of that in my head made me go "AWESOME!"..... and then I remembered I am terribly strange.-Red dazes

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                          • #14
                            Quoth AccountingDrone View Post
                            20 year Navy wife here. After 3 fails you go into remedial - after the 4th fail you tend to get an 'other than honorable' discharge, if he really wants to get out he can go to the command yeoman and get a discharge manual and browse it for a reason to be discharged in such a manner that it wont fuck the rest of your life up.

                            TBH, if he didn't want to get deployed he should have gone with the Air Force, they rarely get deployed.
                            And submariners tend to have the highest deployment rate, they just can't say where they are going.

                            I have to disagree with that point. I'm retired Air Force & I was deployed a lot. Maybe back in the old days they didn't go anywhere BUT when I was in, they sent us all over the place.
                            IF he's having that much trouble finding the time to excercise so he can pass his PT then he needs to take his concerns up through the chain of command. IF they see that he's serious about wanting to pass it then they'll help him. & IF he really wants to get out then he needs to let the chain of command aware of that as well. Simply thinking that he can just fail it in order to get out is a BIG mistake that can hurt him in ways he hasn't thought of yet.

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