Virginia Tech

[technical.angel]

A moment of cyber silence for those who lost their lives today at Virgina Tech.

The latest count (15 minutes ago) was 32 dead and 26 injured.

Anyone near the college?

I came back from a meeting and found bossman and the head of security in a meeting, talking about security. Sigh.

[Ryu]

I'm in MD so not too far and my cousin goes there so it hit close to home in a way even though he's alright
I cant believe it happened

[technical.angel]

I'm glad your cousin is alright!! I hope your family got word quickly. There was a gun scare at my old high school where my cousin is going. It had to have been the one day where she forgot her cell phone. I know my aunt was scared witless until Ashley was able to get her hands on a phone. And that was just a scare.

I think this is really going to change a lot about the University. Virgina Tech used email to communicate to the students during lockdown. While we could do that here, very few students actually check their email, so I don't know how that could effictively work.

[Ryu]

he posted on facebook and aim that he was alright which i think is the quickest manner for the average college student to hear news
i assume he called his parents as well i dunno, havent talked to him
but yeah im glad hes alright and its scary how out of touch some people are due to not using common communication methods

[Spiffy McMoron]

*Sombre minute of silence*

[Giggle Goose]

I'm originally from VA, and a lot of my family members have graduated from VT, which we just call "Tech." I know some people that go there, and I just found out everyone's OK. It's extremely depressing, and life is never going to be the same there again. I really just don't understand what could come over someone take the lives of so many innocent people.

The whole VT community is in my thoughts and prayers.

[kresston]

I've been a member of this site for a long time, mostly lurking since I've never dealt with any SC's and this makes a wonderful first post. I'm a student here @ VT and luckily I was able to get off of campus before anything bad could happen to me. This travesty will scar our beautiful campus, but in the end I think it will make the campus community stronger. I'm deeply saddened by the death of my fellow school mates and hope that this incident will not be forgotten so that their memory will live on in the memories and the spirit of Virginia Techs students.

[alogram]

I feel so bad for everyone at that campus.

I got an email from my college (I am in NY, far from NYC) and apparently people have been calling the school here. to be honest, I don't really get that. I can understand if people are concerned about security, but it just seems kinda silly to me.

My thoughts are with everyone at that campus.

[Greenday]

I have a friend from back home who goes to Virginia Tech. My mom asked around about him and apparently he's fine.

I don't understand this kind of crap. Kinda scary when you think about it and you live in a dorm. With so many people in such close proximity, it wouldn't be hard for someone to get a bunch of people quickly. And if you are young, entering a dorm in the middle of the day is no problem. We only have security at the front desk in my dorm from 8pm till 3:45am.

[PuckishOne]

This is a sad day for Virginia Tech, for the country, and for humanity. My only hope is that there will be adequate support for the families of the dead and injured, so that they may heal, and that the medical community is able to mend the wounds of those who got in the way.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I just found out about this when I got home a little while ago. My cousin's daughter is a freshman there (just got accepted to the landscape architecture program, which is hard to do), and my mom's friend's brother-in-law is a professor. He was in Washington DC today, and my cousin's daughter is fine, but she couldn't get ahold of her mother for a while, and finally called her grandparents and they were able to get in touch with her parents.

When I was in college the dorms weren't even locked until 10 or 11 at night, and there was an RA on duty only from 8pm on. When I went back for my 5 year reunion we found that they are locked all the time and you have to call whoever you're visiting from the phone outside (which also did not exist when I was there) if you don't have a key.

[rdp78]

I live in Roanoke which is about an hour away from Virginia Tech and I first saw it on the local news stations then checked to see if it was on any of the cable stations (this was around 11). Sure enough it made national news and well, now international news I'm assuming. I also have just checked some news websites and all have been covering this story. I also have even googled Virginia Tech and checked it's main website where everythings been cancelled.

Anyway I haven't gone outside because of the strong wind (which has caused some problems for people at Va. Tech) and didn't need to be anywhere so I haven't seen how people are reacting to this tragedy other then on the TV. I'm sure people here are very sad and angry especially if they are a Hokie fan and/or went to Va. Tech which is probably a majority or so around here.

Now I never went to Tech as a student but I did go there the summer of 1993 for just a one week program and the campus is very huge. I don't even think we cover half the school. I know when I went to community college the first time (97-99) many of my classmates transfered there or were planning to and I think I was planning too but decided to transfer to smaller colleges. I do have couple of cousins (I know of one, not sure of the other) who graduated there over decade there and one of them is planning on sending his oldest child there in few more years.

The weird thing about this is that in another four days people are going to remember what happen at Columbine High School 8 years ago and of course, are going to think about what is happening here in Virginia. I remember what happen at Columbine and probably thinking it couldn't happen anywhere near me. Well, now something similar has happen in my own back yard and its over 30 people dead :( .

[thegiraffe]

Yeah, it's pretty insane. I have a good childhood friend who goes there - we've known each other practically our entire lives. I just got ahold of him....he's fine, as are most of the people he knows up there. They haven't released any lists yet - Dad thinks it'll be tomorrow at the earliest because they have to organize everything.

It's still incredibly scary though. I live in Florida, but I was born in the DC area. That's too close to home.

[ZumZum]

I know someone who goes there. She is a freshman living on campus. I used to work with her at the clothing store. I have just checked her MySpace page and left her a message (as well as posting a bulletin asking if anyone has heard from her).

Please keep your fingers crossed!

[ZumZum]

I got a message from someone who texted her. She is fine!!

[Kusanagi]

I hope my friend is as okay as yours is, Zum.

She's a senior there and I've been trying to reach her all day, her phone kicks to voicemail and it's completely full.

I'm chewing my nails here hoping she's alright...

[BookstoreEscapee]

She's a senior there and I've been trying to reach her all day, her phone kicks to voicemail and it's completely full.

I'm chewing my nails here hoping she's alright...

Probably everyone else trying to reach her. I hope she is OK.

Zum, glad your friend is OK.

[ZumZum]

Thank you all, I am relieved. She is on MySpace as we speak.


Now they are saying there were two shooters!
The police have a "person of interest", it was just on the news teaser.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Wow. What a shame. I feel terrible for everybody who lost loved ones at VT.

Really makes Columbine look like a picnic, doesn't it? At first I couldn't figure out how 32 people could be killed in one spree. I guess the shooter must have had an armory under his clothes.

Suffice to say we're all Hokies tonight.

[ZumZum]

Did you all realize it's 8 years to the day of Columbine?

[Strikesfirmly]

Sad, so very damn sad. Another senseless tragedy whose most likely motive was for 15 minutes the media was more than happy to grant. Makes me wonder occasionally if the media is carrying on in the spirit of Hearst and secretly funding or motivating some of these whack jobs.

Hopefully the long tradition, history, and physical campus of VT, along with the emergency responders' jobs, can survive the inevitable lawsuits soon to come.

Which the media will gladly cover of course.

Looks like the laws, checks, and waiting periods are working about as well as can be expected to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of sociopaths too willing to use them.

[Rahmota]

Wow oh wow. That is just something *speechless*. I am sorry to hear about that and hope the families are able to come to terms with it.

It does show how a person who is really determined to do bad thigns is going to do them regardless of anything else. At least he saved the taxpayers money by plugging himself.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Did you all realize it's 8 years to the day of Columbine?

Not quite--that will be Friday. Columbine happened on April 20, 1999.

Wikipedia is my friend.

[ZumZum]

Thanks, it said in an article I read it was 8 years to the day. So wiki is not their friend. lol

[hawkchick11]

This is an extremely sad day, not only for VT, but the nation.

My only question is, why didn't they lockdown the entire campus after the first shooting? I understand they locked down the dorm, searched it, found out the gunman wasn't there, but didn't lockdown the campus. It just kind of makes you wonder if the 2nd shooting wouldn't have happened if the campus had been locked down, since it happened over 2 hours after the first.

[Alfie]

My hearts go out to everyone who has been effected by this incident. I can't imagine what hell the community is feeling right now.

It does make me wonder though, when America will change its gun laws? I understand that it's in the constitution, but surely it would save so many lives to restrict the selling of guns to farmers etc.

Again, all my sympathies for this tragic event.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I remember Columbine and Jonesboro and those happened while I was in school, and I was always afraid that it could happen in my school as well. Those places were little calm schools like mine *supposedly* was, too. I even knew which kids I was certain were going to tear the place up. I spent most of my high school years waiting for the day when one guy in particular would decide to bring his guns to school and start shooting, and I knew I would almost certainly die because either he would come after me first, or I'd have gone after him to try and stop him before he could hurt any more innocent people.

When I finally graduated from high school, I thought I had "made it" because moving on to college surely meant that I wouldn't have to worry about anyone coming into those schools and shooting up the place. I already knew that was some faulty logic on my part, but things like this really hit the point home.

I have a few friends-of-friends who are in the area, but they all seem to be all right, and thank God, one of my good friends in that area has children too young to be there. I really don't know what to say other than to hope that this serves as a good wake-up call to colleges that they can't feel safe just because they aren't a high school...this can happen anywhere.

[Jester]

Another senseless tragedy whose most likely motive was for 15 minutes the media was more than happy to grant.

From what I have seen, the motive was NOT for media exposure, all things considered. Generally speaking, mass murderers/spree killers like this are not motivated by a desire for fame or media exposure, but are sparked by severe anger exploding outward. This is especially true when said shooter takes their own life, as this one did. From what I know, the media exposure this would generate probably never even entered this person's mind. You can blame the media for a lot, and much of it would be justified. And lord knows some of the coverage has been disgustingly lurid and macabre. But I have to respectfully disagree with you about the probable motivation of the shooter being the tv spotlights.


I am a Sun Devil.
My best friend is a Wildcat.
My girlfriend is a Bulldog.
Much of my family are Scarlet Knights.

But as Irving said, today we are ALL Hokies. [bows head]

[Cia]

The School of Mines here in Rapid is offering free counselors to any and all of the 1200 - 2200 students who are upset and need help coping with what happened in Virginia. Tech has also increased their security just in case of copy cats.

[blas]

I second the motion about how come the campus wasn't locked down after the first shooting?

What happened in those mysterious 2 hours between the shootings?

There's always a lot of would have/could have/should have, but I mean, how could the gunman still have been able to gain access to buildings after nearly everyone was aware of what had just happened the first time around? He/she was still out and on the loose, and the buildings remained open......it's just terrible. Just terrible.

My thoughts and prayers are with all the victims, their family and friends, and any fellow CSers on here who know or are close to a student/faculty member at VTech.

[air914]

My heart and prayers go out to all who have lost friends and family in this horrible tragedy. I just can't understand it at all - it makes absolutely no sense.

As far as how it happened he shot so many people in a short amount of time, supposedly he had two guns - one in each hand. He walked into a classroom, told everyone to get down, and just shot at everyone in the room. I also heard there was a Holocaust survivor that was teaching there that held one of the doors closed so the guy couldn't come into his classroom - the students (all except 2) escaped throug the window of the classroom (which I think was on the 2nd floor). The Holocaust survivor/teacher did not survive this incident but he saved so many lives by his actions. I do hope the whole incident brings the campus closer together and helps to make all college campuses more secure. I'm one who tries to look for the good that can happen out of all this senseless horror so I do hope security on all campuses is increased and that people are brought closer.

Does anyone know what they're doing about finals & classes & such? Will they try to resume them in a month or so or will they just cancel classes for the rest of the semester? I know I would be home at this point and would have a lot of difficulty going back..

[Rahmota]

Hawk: Yeah that is an interesting question. Somebody dropped the ball there. Whith 2 hrs between incidents there was enough time to mobilize security and get things better undercontrol.

Alfie: All I'll say here is the following anythign further please meet me at http://www.fratching.com for a more in depth debate on firearms controls and their failure to stop violence. Firearms do not kill people it is peoples actions with them that harm people. A person determined to do harm and violence will do so with or without a firearm. Also maybe if some of the students in the initial attack had been armed and responded appropriately then the tragedy would have been a lot less than it was.

[Banrion]

This is an extremely sad day, not only for VT, but the nation.

My only question is, why didn't they lockdown the entire campus after the first shooting? I understand they locked down the dorm, searched it, found out the gunman wasn't there, but didn't lockdown the campus. It just kind of makes you wonder if the 2nd shooting wouldn't have happened if the campus had been locked down, since it happened over 2 hours after the first.

Because you can't lockdown 20,000 people everytime something happens on a campus. I realize now, hindsight is 20/20, but all reports as of the 1st shooting only, believed the motive was a domestic dispute and nothing more.

I went to a VERY large school in upstate New York, if we had been locked down everytime someone was assaulted or killed on or near campus, we would have never been in class.

[volatile]

A moment of cyber silence for those who lost their lives today at Virgina Tech.

The latest count (15 minutes ago) was 32 dead and 26 injured.

Anyone near the college?

I came back from a meeting and found bossman and the head of security in a meeting, talking about security. Sigh.

I went to VT. It was a complete shock. That area would be the last place you would expect something like this to happen. Luckily the friends I still have down there are OK but someone else who my friends know was actually shot (multiple times I think) and had to go to the hospital. He is fine now but he had to go through multiple surgeries.

[blas]

I am watching the noon news right now. They have identified the gunman.

[counterjockey]

(I was about to post this last night, but I was worried that maybe I was throwing gas on a smoldering subject. I removed most of the profanity--it was in fact longer before I did--and ran it by Ree and Rapscallion to see if they thought my little rant belonged on CS, Fratching, or in my recycle bin. They did a good job of convincing me I wasn't completely barking mad, so here's what I thought, as I thought it. A little less profane, anyway.)

Looking at the New York Times and Washington Post coverage right now. They don't have the names of most of the victims, or of the killer. Apparently, it was only the one killer, which I guess has to count for some kind of relief. The alleged killer killed himself as police closed in. At the store today, I kept NPR on even though I didn't want to hear anything more about this godawful business--I headed outside with a broom and dustpan, rags and windex and armor-all and figured that I'd do what I could for the little corner of the world that I could try to keep from falling into hell. In Iowa, it was a heartbreaker of a beautiful day.

I don't know anyone in or near this particular tragedy, but I have to vent just a little. Apparently, this started as a "domestic dispute." A 23 year old college kid, furious at his ex-girlfriend, for what, God alone knows.

I'm physically a thousand miles away from everything that's happening there but since it feels like something like this could happen anywhere anymore, it's hard to put it out of my mind. And in some ways I guess I know how people closer to this tragedy might be feeling right now.

It's been a couple years since I've been in school, and I know I felt more passionately about a lot of things then than I do now. I was an awkward high school freshman when Columbine school was shot up. A still-awkward kid who was wondering where God was on September 11th. A guy, probably still awkward, mired in a rut I've dug myself between my crappy apartment and my bottom-rung job in a store that may not last another year, while life in all its pain and glory largely passes me by. I'm not thrilled that I'm measuring life right now in journeys not taken and dreams put aside, but I'm getting by, and I'm apparently not frustrated enough to try to make any drastic changes. I just don't get as worked up about things as I used to.

But I have to get worked up just a little bit. I mean, this all supposedly started because of a college romance gone bad. How can anyone take a college fling so seriously that they go armed with intent and take out thirty innocent bystanders? I don't care how infatuated he may have been, how great the sex may have been, it was a college fling, and it didn't work out, and it happens all the time, so God damn it, LET IT GO!!!! Don't take it out on her, don't take it out on thirty people on campus, don't take it out on anyone. Find some way to cope that doesn't involve gunshots and sucking chest wounds and the shattered hearts of grieving parents. Write shitty poetry, cry, lash out, break shit, curse, scream, fall asleep in tears and wake up in agony and try to get on with life. Let the other guy win. Let the girl go, forget about the money or the drugs or whatever's driven you monkeyshit and just move on with your one crack at life on this earth.

I've been depressed, I've been broke, broken down, brokenhearted, and yeah, I've wanted to die a time or two before. But I get over myself and keep on trying to live. I've said that suicide was a permanent solution to temporary trouble. I've said that sometimes the only way to live was to stop living for yourself and live for that someone in your life who'd be devastated if you were gone--I've had to do that myself, and recently. And I'm still here, I'm choosing to stay and fight, I choose to bet on hope and I still can't get how the personal problems of A 23 YEAR OLD can be worth the lives of 32 innocent people, let alone worth his own life.

All this violence that goes on, all the wars, the disputes, the clashes over God, who said--from the get-go--"THOU SHALT NOT KILL--" what good is any of it? What faith, what ideology, what emotional feeling, what natural resource, what petty vendetta, is worth even one human life cut short? Nothing. Nothing nothing nothing. Get over it, get shut of it, because anything, any belief in anything, any love of anything that drives you to hurt, to kill, to terrorize ANYONE ANYWHERE is a poison in your soul and an affront to everything good in this world. Life is a precious, flawed, sacred and profound thing that's worth so much more than this oil well or that girlfriend or these millions of dollars or those fucking piles of rocks over there.

I pray for the dead, for the loved ones left behind, and for the survivors. I hope for the best, believe it or not. I still hope, and I still believe that this is the exception and not the rule, and that the good will still outweigh the bad. I have enough experience to the contrary, but I choose to bet on hope.

[air914]

I agree with you that NOTHING is worth killing 30+ people for - but it's not just the problems of a 19 YEAR OLD... I don't care HOW old you are..... I mean if your life is THAT bad then take your own life -- not what I think is best but if you're going to kill someone - kill yourself - but don't take 30 other people with you.... you're probably NOT going to end up in the same place they do and they're not going to "keep you company" on your way....... I just can't understand it at all - especially the two hour "break" the gunman took..... what the crap?

[Kusanagi]

I still haven't heard from my friend :cry:

[technical.angel]

Hugs for Kusanagi.

Yahoo! News had a list of the fatalites up. http://tinyurl.com/ys9gz4

I sincerely hope that your friend is NOT on that list.

Hugs!!

[Ryu]

i saw on the news(it was on when i was working out, heard bits and pieces) that he had submitted somewhat disturbed/disturbing poetry or stories or other things for classes
not saying its the teachers fault by any means but when its consistent over more than 1 assignment it needs to be checked into just in case

[ZumZum]

My friend sent me a message saying she is fine and all her friends are accounted for. I know many people lost love ones yesterday.

She is asking that everyone wear maroon and orange (school colors) today for support. Thanks all.

[Ryu]

im wearing orange but havent seen many others do the same, i dont think most people heard about doing so or dont have orange or maroon
did see one person in an orange vt shirt

[BookstoreEscapee]

From what I understand they thought that the first incident was isolated, a domestic dispute type of thing, and they thought the person had left the area. And a few articles I've read compared it to trying to lock down a city. The campus is accessible to the public, and has over 100 buildings. That's pretty hard to lock down in a just couple hours. Though I do think they probably should have told the students what was going on sooner.

One of the people killed was from a town not far from me, maybe 15 miles or so.

My mom talked to my aunt and my cousin's daughter is getting a ride home tomorrow and will stay home at least for the rest of the week. I don't know if they know when they will get back to classes. They did say on the news a little while ago that the building that the second shooting was in will be shut down for the rest of the semester. My aunt and uncle are actually in North Carolina visiting my other cousin and they can't even get a hotel anywhere near the campus or they would go there on their way home (they live in NJ).

[Ljt09863]

its amazing what people will do for others. a teacher, Liviu Librescu, stood in the doorway, in front of the gunman and yelled for his students to get out. the students jumped out the window..and the gunman killed the teacher. chances are(i don't know what kind kind of ammo he had), the death count would have been higher if he didn't stand in the way.

yahoo reports this among the fatalites list. i guess his students sent emails to his son telling him how Liviu saved their lives.

[counterjockey]

It does seem like the better nature of mankind shines through tragic things. Liviu Librescu survived the holocaust as a child, escaped from communist Romania in the 1970s, became a beloved teacher, and laid down his life so his students could escape. This is his story. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_mi_ea/virginia_tech_world_victims)

I've learned more about the alleged killer, Cho-Seung Hui, and I just don't have it in me to condemn him as evil incarnate. He was troubled, disturbed, and isolated, but I can't imagine what troubles were so inescapable as to lead him to murder and suicide. If God is as forgiving as I hope He is, then I hope that Cho has a chance to be forgiven his sins in the next life, whatever that may be. I hope that whoever else feels isolated and persecuted by the world seeks and finds help and compassion instead of exploding into innocent lives.

"Mother" Mary Harris Jones said it best: "Pray for the dead, fight like hell for the living."

[blas]

Every news channel has been reporting that the gunman was a 23 year old senior, not 19.

[Cia]

Professor Librescu's actions make him a hero in my book.

If anybody starts attacking Koreans because of this one disturbed person's actions they should be thwacked long and hard with a 'get a clue' stick.

[BookstoreEscapee]

its amazing what people will do for others. a teacher, Liviu Librescu, stood in the doorway, in front of the gunman and yelled for his students to get out. the students jumped out the window..and the gunman killed the teacher. chances are(i don't know what kind kind of ammo he had), the death count would have been higher if he didn't stand in the way.


They had a memorial today, and showed his wife saying how she was getting emails and phone calls from his students saying he was like a father to them and how much they loved him. Tomorrow his family will take him to Israel to bury him.

[Greenday]

I feel like people on facebook are making it into such a mockery. Their are literally hundreds upon hundreds of facebook groups, "Canadians support VA Tech", "Mexicans support VA Tech", "NJ/PA/NY/etc. support VA Tech". Just waiting for "Mars supports VA Tech". I can understand having like one or two groups out for it, but not hundreds upon hundreds. Completely unncessary. Alls they are doing is publicizing the horrors of it. But hey, I guess people just need to keep adding to their groups list, right?

Anyway, I think it's totally horrible what happened. What I can't understand is why the school wasn't immediately put on lockdown the second it happened. And what's also scary is, I think about what if someone tried to do the same at my school. The ONLY time we have security here is from 8pm-3:45am. And yea, from 8am-8pm the only doors you can get in through are the main front doors, but we have no metal detectors, no one gets searched, nothing. Some kid could just walk in with a gun or something in their bookbag and NO ONE would even know. I feel REALLY freaking safe.

[Rahmota]

yeesh. Facebook. gah bah.

As for the gunman he definately had some major issues. Sad that he could not find a way to deal with them in a more appropriate way. I mean I was teased, made fun of and defiantely wasn't one of the "IN" crowd in school myself. But the difference is I managed to keep it together enough to get through it.

As for him I am now torn between feeling anger at him and feeling sorrow for him myself. Makes you wonder if anyone reached out to him or tried to be a friend or if anything could have changed the end results.

As for the professor he is an example of the greatness humanity is capable of. A breed of person that is endangered in many ways.

:salute: to Professor Librescu.

[Kusanagi]

I finally heard from my friend, she's okay :whew:

Sorry, my internet has been really shoddy, seems the only thing that was going through was Instant Messenger

[blas]

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers here, but....

After the school thread we once had going on here, it's a pretty fair statement to say that it appears almost each of us CSers were unmercifully teased and harrassed in high school. Now, high school and college are two different places, but nevertheless, despite how bad all of us had it in school, none of us ever went and shot up our schools. Maybe, just maybe we might have thought of evil things like that, but none of us ever actually DID it, because we knew it wouldn't solve anything.

Shooting up a school to kill people you don't like doesn't make you a martyr for troubled, harrassed kids everywhere on earth. It makes you a sick, twisted individual.

[DarthRetard]

I would have to say I have to respectfully disagree Blas. From 6th grade until I graduated, I can hardly think of a day where I wasn't:

1. Beaten
2. Called racial/ethnic slurs (down here in florida I'm a minority, because I'm white.)
3. Made fun of constantly (though it was usually easy to brush off and ignore)

In middle school, I had been stabbed, robbed and beaten with bats and lacrosse sticks. No one ever stuck up for me, and no one said a word on my behalf. I reached out to try and ask the principal, my teachers for help, and no one dared say a word in my defense, though as to why yet, I'm not sure. I did find out my middle school principal had racist tendencies against caucasians, as he's hispanic himself (not saying their racist, he just went easier on the hispanics as opposed to whites and blacks.)

Before I say what I'm going to say next, don't interpret this as anything more than a statement. I do NOT want to get into a theological debate about how guns dont kill people, people do, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

All those events put me in a psychiatrist's office. I had to get help for 4 years, because of other people's abuse and lack of support.

Sure, a lot of us made it through just fine, because you might have (MIGHT HAVE) had someone supporting you, or a way out. I didn't. My only way out was to go to a doctor's office at 3:45 every day for 4 years and end my day crying and screaming because I really did just want to kill them. (that's apast tense statement, I was young, and I never actually did anything, obviously, because I'm still here.)

Cho didn't have the support. If you watch the videos, if you watch what he sent to NBC, you can see hints of it. He never rants at anyone in specific, it's always generalized. All the students always say they left him alone. Always easier to just leave him alone, isn't it? Never is easier to just ask if he's ok, or try to learn about him? Hell, two women called the police on him before, but they were NOT, NOT his victims.

This is obviously from my point of view a result of built up rage, lack of support, lack of reaching out to a troubled individual, and lack of awareness on the human side of things.

If we don't really start teaching our kids to knock this shit off, it will continue to happen. It happens every day down here. I'm sick of seeing it. Sure, my friends and I tease each other, but we still know our limits.

I'm guessing from the time Cho moved here when he was 8, from S. Korea, he was picked on, beat up, called all kinds of racial slurs and ethnic comments, and eventually made to hate himself.

In closing, I quote a verse from a Mighty Mighty Bosstones song, Riot on Broad Street "If I'm going down, hell I'm not going down alone."

He wanted to make a point, let's not miss that point. Apparently, we missed it somehow after Columbine. When are we going to get it?

[Ryu]

thats true but it doesnt mean that that level of teasing has no effect on people
some people just bottle it up, some just take their own lives, some take it out on others, some people get permanently changed, etc
people need to be more understanding of others and not tease and shun them

[blas]

I completely understand, Darth. To this day, people I went to school with are still haunting me, trying to prevent me from making new friends. It's been a real wake up call as to who real friends are. Every time I meet someone new, there's always a herd of my ex-classmates warning them about that "nasty disease ridden ex stripper slut", etc etc..............granted I was never physically assaulted, I was sexually harrassed and tortured on a daily basis. Teachers flat out heard kids yell "Nasty whore!" at me in the hallways, and just turned their heads.

While I don't agree with shooting people to get revenge, all my above post was meant for was to state that I understand where all of these kids have came from, and I'm pretty sure everyone else on this site has been there before as well.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Another factoid: The gunman got one of his guns from a Web site based in a Green Bay gun shop.

Gotta love these local connections to horrible tragedies! :cry:

[DarthRetard]

Exactly Blas. My point, I guess I forgot to make it.....I get ranty sometimes, old high school debate habit, *sigh*, was that we need to reach out to those kids and DEFEND them. There comes a certain point where yes they can eventually defend themselves, but until then, I'm all for going the spartan way of life again.

Teaching our sons to kick ass at 8 years old, then they're fine. Just kidding, wouldn't completely work.

Really though, recently, there was an article done by some famed child psychologist in our local paper. His acclaimed success idea for getting rid of bullies?

Ignore them.

BULL. SHIT.

It's statements and blow-offs like that that just ASK for another Columbine. You don't pass the buck off onto a young kid who (cho doesn't fall into this, but I'm sure he did at one point.) doesn't even know how to control his hormones yet. It won't work, because they're not ready. This is where the parents come in

My parent's saw that I was having trouble coping with this and they did what they could to help me, seeing that it was easier for someone to vent their problems to someone they didnt know, they took me to Dr. Heffner. It helped, it really, really did.

Going to a psychiatrist or a therapist is somehow ostracized in our community. If you've ever been, you've got issues. There's a whole stigma here with this thing, and it's damn near impossible to fight.

[CrazedClerk]

Exactly Blas. My point, I guess I forgot to make it.....I get ranty sometimes, old high school debate habit, *sigh*, was that we need to reach out to those kids and DEFEND them. There comes a certain point where yes they can eventually defend themselves, but until then, I'm all for going the spartan way of life again.

Teaching our sons to kick ass at 8 years old, then they're fine. Just kidding, wouldn't completely work.

Really though, recently, there was an article done by some famed child psychologist in our local paper. His acclaimed success idea for getting rid of bullies?

Ignore them.

BULL. SHIT.

It's statements and blow-offs like that that just ASK for another Columbine. You don't pass the buck off onto a young kid who (cho doesn't fall into this, but I'm sure he did at one point.) doesn't even know how to control his hormones yet. It won't work, because they're not ready. This is where the parents come in

My parent's saw that I was having trouble coping with this and they did what they could to help me, seeing that it was easier for someone to vent their problems to someone they didnt know, they took me to Dr. Heffner. It helped, it really, really did.

Going to a psychiatrist or a therapist is somehow ostracized in our community. If you've ever been, you've got issues. There's a whole stigma here with this thing, and it's damn near impossible to fight.

If you totally ignore him, he becomes a loner, becomes disturbed, gets a gun and well...the rest writes itself. Yeah, some solution that is.

[Spiffy McMoron]

Before things get too heated in here, and bed feelings boild over in this thread or others, let me remind you that there is a perfectly good website for this sort of thing:

www.fratching.com (http://www.fratching.com)

It's there to use.

[iradney]

What happened at VT was a horrible, devastating occurence. I really feel for the family and friends of the victims. Nothing is more painful than someone ripped away from life before their time.
However. A teacher at the VT did reach out to Cho. She tutored him one-on-one after he freaked out the English lecturer. She claims that she tried to get him to go to therapy, that she would take him there, that she was worried for him. Allegedly, taht offer was ignored/turned down.
Of course, with all the information that is now pouring out about this fellow (he's autistic, he's not autistic etc etc) it's hard to sift the wheat from the chaff.

[Jester]

Really though, recently, there was an article done by some famed child psychologist in our local paper. His acclaimed success idea for getting rid of bullies?

Ignore them.

BULL. SHIT.

Anyone who says to ignore bullies was never themselves bullied. Period.

Back when I was a kid, I was one of the smaller, weaker kids. Hell, today as an adult I am a whopping 5'8" tall and weigh 150-160 lbs. soaking wet. Not exactly physically intimidating. And I was not all that athletic, either. I WAS one of the brighter ones, but grades mean a whole lotta nada on the playground. So I got bullied. Pushed around. Picked on. Made fun of.

Now, I DID have some defenses. First of all, I have always been rather funny, and able to turn an amusing phrase lightning fast. I was the class clown, no question. Which helped, as (a) the bullies found it damn hard to push me around or hit me when they were laughing, and (b) some of the larger kids came to the conclusion that I was an alright guy, and told the bullies to knock it off. "This dude's funny....leave him alone, assmunch." That kind of stuff.

Also, I inherited my father's temper. Which means I am not quick to anger, at all. Hell, it takes a lot to piss me off. But once I AM pissed off....duck. Two perfect examples: One was an incident back in second grade. One of the usual suspects (bullies) was giving me hell, saying this and saying that. And I snapped. End result: scrawny funny kid sends big bully kid to the nurse's office. They had to pry my hands off his neck. He found other people to bother after that. The other incident was in junior high. This one rather rotund idiot (he easily outweighed me by 50 pounds, probably more) had been on my case for a while. Then one day he started in about my parents. My father had just died, mind you. This was an error on his part. Finally one day I had had enough, and again snapped. I vaulted the lunch table and started to wail on Tubby. A teacher intervened. I hit the teacher! Eventually, we both ended up in the vice principal's office. We each were suspended for a day. As we were walking back to our lockers, I very calmly, very quietly said, "[Tubby], if you ever talk to me again, I will fucking kill you." Although we shared a homeroom for the next 2.5 years, the only time he ever spoke to me at all was to very respectfully and politely ask me about homework assignments from mutual classes.

Ignore the bullies? No. Meet them head on. Get in their face. Do not take their guff. That is what my father taught me, and what we should be teaching the kids that feel like outcasts, that feel bullied. Because even if the picked on get their asses kicked for doing that (and that happened to me from time to time), the bullies WILL back down, and other kids WILL take notice. And most importantly, the picked on kid will start to gain some self-respect and confidence.

This picked on scrawny non-athletic kid is now a charming, friendly, outgoing professional magician and amateur cyclist who is very popular with many people of all types (though some people still find him annoyingly obnoxious) and who has faced down as an adult people much larger than him, and had the larger person back down.

Is my above formula perfect? Would it work in all situations? Of course not to both questions. I tend to doubt it would have helped Darth. And not everyone is blessed with the gifts I had and have. I know this. But there is no universal solution for stuff like this. The sad fact is kids will pick on other kids, and some kids will deal with it like Cho, some like me, and the rest somewhere in between. The sad fact is there ARE rich assholes who like to flaunt what they have (even though it was their parents or grandparents who EARNED it, not them) and make other people feel inferior. Cho dealt with it horribly wrong, but he did have a point when he said that the rich brats feel they can get away with anything. Hell, in this very website, we talk about entitlement whores all the time--these are the same people Cho was lashing out at in his manifesto and in his mind. Now please, please, PLEASE, no one take this as my saying in any way that I condone Cho's actions. I don't, not one bit. What he did was sick, twisted, and wrong. But to a small extent, I CAN see what pushed him to think like that.

And sadly, as parents continue to abdicate their responsibility for raising their children, more children are going to turn out like Cho's tormentors and the entitlement whores we complain about, and they are going to create more misery...and out of that misery, we may see more Chos created. That, my friends, is the sad reality of the situation.

[BookstoreEscapee]

To shift the course of this thread a bit:

My cousin's daughter (K) got a ride home from VT on Wednesday.

K was out shopping or something while she was home and was wearing a VT shirt. A woman saw her and asked if she went there. K said yes. The woman said, "I know I don't know you, but would you mind if I gave you a hug?" And she hugged her and cried.

She is going back tomorrow. Classes are back on Monday.

My mom told me today that K is going to be living off campus next year. I don't know if that was something that they had decided previously or if they just decided it this week. Apparently only freshmen have to live on campus (at my school, all underclassmen had to live on campus except commuters).