Advice Needed ...

[CaroPhoenix]

When my daughter was diagnosed with Autism, it was noted that she may have ADHD. (It runs on both my side & hubby's side of our families). The doctor recommended Tenex or Guanfacine, which is used mainly as a high blood pressure medication, but studies have shown that it works in children for ADHD.

Hubby wants to use this medication on our daughter (she'll turn 4 in July). I am against it. DD can at times be trying, she'll start to pull hair, be aggressive, etc. (but usually when she's ignored). MIL & Hubby are like, "Well, it's been reccomended by the doctor so it is good." And MIL has known children who has used the medication and "they've turned out well."

I just don't want my daughter medicated. Is this wrong of me to deny her the medication? Usually when she's wearing her compression vest, she's fine. The constant hugging sensation from the vest calms her down and she's not as aggressive, etc. Besides, because Tenex is used mainly for hypertension, her blood pressure would have to be constantly monitored (and she HATES having the blood pressure cuff on her arm).

My question is this: Has anyone on the board either had family/friends/themselves use Tenex or Guanfacine and how did it work out?

Thanks!

[JuniorMintz]

I don't have any advice regarding the medications, but your mother in law, if I'm remembering correctly, is a complete and utter dumbass whose 2 cents should be promptly swept under the rug she crawled out from under. :D

Sorry, that's all I had to contribute. Hopefully the next few posts will be more helpful, lol!

[RavenStarr]

I remember your MIL as well too. Let me just say this is completely up to you and hubby. Don't let MIL meddle in this.

I've never heard of the meds you've mentioned. Now you said your little girl may have ADHD. One thing for sure you don't want to give her meds for something that she may or may not have. Find out for sure if she does have ADHD or not.

If you don't want her on meds research other alternatives. I think 4yrs old is a bit to young to be medicated but that JMO.

I may not be that great on advice but I know one thing. You and hubby need to get on the same page and work together on this.

[Shabo]

I agree, 4 ys old is too young for the medication, mostly because you don't know for sure whether or not she actually has ADHD or not. As far as the behavior goes, it sounds like pretty typical behavior at 4 for someone who has autism, not just ADHD, so I wouldn't worry about it. Doctors usually recommend medication for ADD and ADHD because the parents want it so they won't have to deal with their children, not necessarily because the kid needs it. (I have seen an ADHD kid that should have been on meds that clearly wasn't because his mom didn't want him on them, and wow, I hope your daughter isn't like him. Not that he was a bad kid, but man, what a handful!) Either way, you definitely need to be on the same page as your husband and get it squared away. And yeah, MIL doesn't need to be involved. She's not raising your daughter.

[iradney]

My Dad is a doctor. Doctors are not infallible. Shhh. It's a secret!
Four years old is too young to put her on medication, and my father agrees (even tho he's an anaesthetist, he's against putting very young kids on meds unnecessarily). You can still try an manage it through her diet and activities, but do you really want her building up a tolerance to such meds at a young age?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

"Well, it's been reccomended by the doctor so it is good."

You husband has an extremely dangerous attitude.

I landed in the emergency room hooked up to an ekg and in excruciating agony one night because of a med recommended by my doctor. My doctor is perfectly competent. But he, like all of us, doesn't have all the info from the drug companies. The drug company, Tapp, severely downplayed and in some cases, hid the possible side effects of the drug I was on.

Do some research. Find out what others are saying. Not the doctors, not the drug companies, but people who have used the drug. Get on internet forums. Talk to other parents. Look for lawsuits.

I'm not saying yea or nay. I have no experience with this drug or with Autism. I'm saying you and your husband need to educate yourself on this condition and this drug as much as you are able before making a decision. You do NOT need to blindly follow the opinion of a guy who may be getting kickbacks and who may be also blindly following what he's being fed by a drug company.

[katie kaboom]

(I have seen an ADHD kid that should have been on meds that clearly wasn't because his mom didn't want him on them, and wow, I hope your daughter isn't like him. Not that he was a bad kid, but man, what a handful!)

Damn, do you know my cousin? Because that sums up his situation perfectly.:eek:

[Shabo]

It could be entirely possible, but said kid is probably now in his early 20's... if he lived that long... I don't know, his mom might have gone crazy one day. Not really a laughing/joking matter, since it really is possible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think it's great when parents try to keep their kids off of meds, but just be prepared to deal with them. And for them to not have any friends. And for no one to really want to spend time with your family any more. Let's face it, when kids are that hyper that they have ADHD, it's just difficult for most people to deal with it (present company included). But he was old enough to be medicated, yet he wasn't, and clearly needed it. So yeah.

I still say wait on the meds to the OP though.

And Iradney... not trying to diss your dad. But doctors deal with a lot of SC parents that want their kid fixed and they want it done now, and they won't take no for an answer. So it's easier to prescribe the kid meds the first time then to see the poor kid get traipsed around from place to place waiting for a doctor to say yes. Because it's only a matter of time before they find that doctor. And of course, not all doctors will do this.

My mom is a bit of a hypochondriac, and she is constantly complaining about something that is ailing her. She does some stuff about it, and her illnesses are warranted about 1/2 the time. Her latest one was her saying she thought she had Lime's disease, :roll: (only laughing because she wasn't displaying any symptoms). Anywho, she will go to the doctor time and time again until they finally give her the answer she wants to hear. Instead of pretending like nothing is wrong with her, or that it's just a today thing that she's feeling, she'll go somewhere until someone gives her an excuse for feeling the way she's feeling. So there are people out there that will do things like that. In today's world, where information is ridiculously easy to access, it's only too easy to self-diagnose your problem, then find the doctor to back it up.

[digilight]

My son is 5 and a half now and is on ADHD medication (not one of the ones that you listed) and I don't remember the name off the top of my head. For us and him it was the best choice. You can really tell that the medication is doing its job, and when we have gone out and forgotten a dose you can really tell the difference as well.

This is a tough decision to make, and what worked for us, may not be in your best interest. Its ultimatly up to you to make the choice. We did the research on the medication, he see's the doctor regulary for monitoring, and we keep a close eye on him.

My parents though, were against medication at the begining (they've always been in the "anti rideolin" camp) after just a couple of weeks of him being on the meds they quickly changed their minds, they did support us the whole way though.

From what I've read, there are ways to treat certain levels of ADHD without medication, it just depends on what you as a parent can provide, and how it works for the child. For us it just would not have been fair to the boy.

Good luck, and don't let your MIL bully you into making a choice that you aren't comfortable with.

[iradney]

And Iradney... not trying to diss your dad. But doctors deal with a lot of SC parents that want their kid fixed and they want it done now, and they won't take no for an answer.

Yah, he's told me horror stories of what his colleagues have experienced. Being the guy that dopes you before the op, he doesn't really deal with ultimatums. He'll get ppl that are shit scared of needles tho...
Unfortunately, some people are just too lazy or scared to learn more about a condition so that they can take care of it in a non-medicinal manner. Of course, some cases you HAVE TO UNLESS YOU WANT TO DIE go on medication, that's unavoidable. But for things like mild eczema (i'm prone to it), I'd rather do the whole "not eating meat, using gentle soap and lavender oil" route rather than have cortizone shots. But that's just me, of course

[CaroPhoenix]

I can handle Kelly (that's my daughter's name). Husband can't handle her. She runs roughshod over him, knowing he'll come to me and "Mommy will make it all better." When husband comes home from work, all he wants to do is sit down, eat dinner, veg in front of the TV and do nothing else. I, on the other hand, will play with her, read with her, etc., even while I'm in the bathroom! :eek:

However, there are just certain times when she wants Daddy and only Daddy. When he tries to push her away, she gets mad. She yells, screams, throws herself at him and grabs handfuls of his hair and YANKS really hard.

The one problem I have, and I think is why her Developmental Peidatrician recommended the medication is this: Kelly will take it into her head to just run. She'll let go of my hand (if I'm not using the harness/leash system) and run. Will not stop for anything until I practically have to tackle her. She doesn't respond to her name. She doesn't think of anything but that she's running and she's free. She's been known to take off running into the street in front of our house. She's been known to run down the sidewalk and into the middle of an even busier street where my mom lives. She's even took off running in the parking lot of a local strip mall! That is what I cannot handle. My heart leaps into my mouth and I have to push back a panic attack before I can run off after her. I'm surprised I don't have more white/grey hair than I actually do!

As for my MIL, if she gives me grief this Friday (July 6), I'm just going to let her have it. Her and my FIL. Grrrrrr.

[Banrion]

IMHO, Don't medicate unless necessary. Also, I don't know how much research you have done, but ADHD can be quantitatively (sp?) diagnosed, it is very different from ADD. ADHD is an actual chemical inbalance in the brain, and oftentimes, the best therapy is to teach the child to control their impulses naturally through therapy, with medication in the interim. ADD is simply a behavioral/ impulse control issue. As of right now, they cannot pinpoint the cause, and medication just inhibits the impulse center of the brain, it doesn't cure anything, just takes away the symptoms.

My brother was diagnosed with ADHD at 7 yo, and he was put on ritalin. He HATED to take the meds. He said that it made him feel like he was walking around in a cloud all the time. He didn't feel like himself at all, which made him work that much harder on his bio-feedback and natural impulse control. Which brings up another thing to take into consideration. You say your DD is autistic. Is she able to communicate to you when she isn't feeling right? That is a big part of any medication. The patient needs to be able to tell you something isn't right.

Only your and your husband truly know your daughter and can decide what's best for her. I suggest doing as much research as you can, and making the decision you think is right.

BTW: "Because the doctor recommended it," is NEVER the right reason to take on life altering treatments. It's one thing if the Dr. recommends you get your cholesterol checked, it's another animal entirely putting a child on medication for what could be the rest of her life without doing any further research.

[Aldous]

Being one who suffers from ADHD, I can tell you, I'd rather be medicated. You might want to ask about other medications, since my brother and I are on different meds, due to age and such. My brother has been medicated since he was three. It would be up to you, but I can tell you that medication makes a big difference. So, if you're uncomfortable with the blood pressure pills, I'd definately ask about alternatives. Best of luck to you with it.

[ArenaBoy]

I suffer from ADHD, I was on ritalin till I was 18 years old. Before that, I was taking ritalin when I was 5. I would say that for me I was glad I took it until now as I was beyond a handful. Like Banrion's brother I never felt like myself at all and I also felt depressed 90% of the time. I also had the cloud feeling too.

For your daughter make absolutely sure that she has ADHD. Just to be safe. I was taking ritalin when I was 5. As for your MIL, keep her out of this. She may be your daughter's grandmother but there are times when the grandparents have to stay out of this and I remember reading about some of the problems you had with her so tread carefully.

[Jpurple]

I would do some research before putting your daughter on meds, for sure- another thing you might want to do is sit down with your pediatrician and go over ALL the medication options and possible side effects before choosing one, if you decide it's necessary.

You might want to check out Parentcenter. com if you haven't already- there are two journals by moms with autistic children, plus other interesting articles that you might find helpful.

[Der Cute]

IDR:

From a kid's perspective:
I'm pissed at my parents for not researching the drugs I was on. Depakote, an anti-sz drug, is known (now) to cause eating. Literally flipping the EAT FOOD light on in your head.
My parents would yell and scream at me for eating. Which, really I didn't / couldn't control. My parents wouldn't LISTEN to me when I was telling them what I felt about the drugs and side effects. (Sleepy, stupid, foghead, forgetful, hunger, cranky) I would express (as a kid) unhappyness about this and they'd brush me off, stating, "The doctor says it's ok".

BULLSHIT.

If you start a drug, you *DO* have to give it time to work, to come up to levels. But when doing so: Log all changes in behavior, coherence, attitude, everything. times of pills can make a difference too....

But balance the quality of life with side effects of a drug against the other drugs and their side effects.....and going clean.

My parents didn't listen to me. They said it's for your own good. Not really if you yell at me that I'm fat, due to eating, because of the drug.....And I can't remember squat.....
They didn't put 2 and 2 together to see this.

Something else I've learned along the way is that if there is a biochem issue in a brain, You Can Bet there's more than just the "main" problem. Other behavior /quirks will be seen as you go along - log them, they might be related to the "main" problem.

Ask yourself: Can you handle the child now, w/o drugs?
Can she learn, without drugs? With assistance? With developmental issues?
Can she LIVE a life with out the drugs?
Is it possible this is outgrow-able?
Is it possible this is mis-diagnosed?

Not fun, not easy, but ...better for everyone I think.

Cutenoob

[Shabo]

The running thing might be more due to autism then ADHD though, so you might want to talk to the doctor about that. If it can be stopped or reduced with meds, you might want to do that for your daughter's safety. But definitely make sure you research everything and discuss every option before that happens.

[FuzzyKitten99]

My son was so-called diagnosed high-functioning Autistic by the school district, however we are in the process of getting a second opinion from an outside source because I don't feel it is really Autism so much as issues related to his hearing problems that have been present since before he was a year old(he's gonna be 4 in August and has been in ECSE classes for speech therapy as well. Not only that is I was diagnosed ADD just after high school (a little late, but still), so I think it may be ADD not Autism.

Anyhow, while some may think it is too young to medicate a child, I would at least try it, knowing it is not permanent. You don't have to have her keep taking it if there are too many negative side effects or the results are not what were desired.

Exercise all your options and one may well be medication. My son isn't at the level where he won't listen at all. He does 99% of the time although he will occasionally think it is totally funny to run off and have me chase him. As I now have his younger brother, I can't just drop whatever and chase after him. I just have learned little tricks to get him to stay by me without being in the cart. I have him help me, or I buy some fries or other kind of snack at the snack shop or mcdonald's (not sugary stuff), and he snacks on that, I talk to him, engage him, etc. He is doing 100% better since last year.

The issue with your husband is that he needs to put aside what HE wants and step up and be DAD. This may mean not getting as much TV time as he would like. Ya know what? Tough shit. His daughter is much more important than the latest episode of his favorite tv show. I haven't seen regular tv beyond PBS in 3 months. Not that I care to anyway, TV sucks lately, except Simpsons & Scrubs. I would like to vege out more often, but because my DH is on 2nd shift so he doesn't get home until 9pm (sometimes later if there are last minute contractors calling), and I do daycare from 7am-4:30pm, I don't get much time to myself, if at all for about 14 hours-even now, I have the kids playing together a few feet from me, but I am constantly having to break up fights between the boys. When DH gets home, he gets about 20 minutes to himself and then he takes over parenting so I can get a break from all kid-related stuff. Ever since we started this routine, Nathan has become much more manageable. He gets at least 30 minutes of one-on-one attention from dad daily. Whether it be reading a story, or a bike ride, or even just a walk around the block with him, his behavior is better on a regular basis. Last night DH took Nathan to the store, just the two of them, and Nathan behaved very well, so he got to pick out a couple new hot wheels cars and some m&m's. We don't medicate him BTW.

Really, part of the problem sounds like your husband needs to adjust his attitude towards parenting a special needs child. She needs a bit more attention than the average child.

[CaroPhoenix]

I'm going to have a talk with Husband about the putting himself first thing. I just never seem to remember to do it until I'm arguing with him. Not a good time then, let me assure you.

I'm going to have to call her regular pediatrician's office on Monday and schedule the blood tests the Developmental Pediatrican recommended she have. Either then or on her 4 year well-child check-up appointment in August, I'll discuss the medication with her regular pediatrician.

[Ree]

I was recently at a foster parent conference and heard a doctor speak about ADD/ADHD and the use of medications.

Meds have gotten a taboo in recent years, but there are a lot of misdiagnosed children and adults running around out there on medication that they do not need.
Teachers, therapists, and even doctors are quick to slap on the ADD/ADHD label for any range of behaviour disorders and meds are the first thing prescribed because it's easier.

I think a big key is proper diagnosis that the child really does have this condition and there are no other factors.

The doctor asked, "If your child had diabetes, would you deny her the insulin and try to regulate it with diet and lifestyle changes only? What if your child had epilepsy? Would you deny him the medication to control the seizures and opt to try diet and behaviour modificiation?"
I am not a big fan of medicating people, but what he said really did make sense.

If a child is actually ADD/ADHD and medication can improve the quality of their life, then why feel such a stigma for opting to medicate?

I agree your MIL has proven herself to be a bit of a dumbass, and your husband certainly hasn't shown that he has the maturity required to make the necessary decisions, but just because they are quick to say, "Let's medicate," then don't discount them completely because of those facts.

I think you need to talk to the doctor and other parents who have children with the same issues.
I think you need to allow yourself to feel free to make decisions regarding your daughter without feeling guilty if you do opt for medication.
There is no shame in choosing to medicate, in my opinion.

[FuzzyKitten99]

Meds have gotten a taboo in recent years, but there are a lot of misdiagnosed children and adults running around out there on medication that they do not need.
Teachers, therapists, and even doctors are quick to slap on the ADD/ADHD label for any range of behaviour disorders and meds are the first thing prescribed because it's easier.

I think a big key is proper diagnosis that the child really does have this condition and there are no other factors. <snip>

very good points Ree. With ADD/ADHD, it depends on the level that the child is at. My level of ADD is pretty low, so I don't take meds. My issue is staying on task, so I just make sure certain things are written down and I have a certain schedule or list of things to do and I follow it. I also can't read instructions without illustrations/pictures to put something together, at least not very well. It will take me a long time to get going, but once I get the basics of whatever it is, then I get to the next step pretty fast. That is why I always had issues at school with getting the initial start of something if we weren't shown how to do it first, step by step. Some of my teachers wanted to put me in special ed classes because they thought I might be 'challenged', but my parents told them to stuff it because they had me tested for IQ at around 11 or 12, and I was at 132.

I do know of a couple people with kids that have chosen to medicate, and it seems to be working for them. I think the main issue with parents being afraid to medicate is not about the meds themselves, it is the part about accepting the fact that their child has a learning disability. I still don't accept the school's diagnosis on my son, but that is because my gut says they are looking for stuff that they want to see. He does have issues, I acknowledge that, but I don't think it is what they think. I believe it to be related to a series of issues from his hearing problems (ear infections and persistent fluid in ears) and possible ADD/ADHD. But he is also only (nearly) 4 years old, and some of the behaviors that the teachers & psychologists at his school question, either myself or my husband did as a child.

However, if his primary doctor or the psychologist at the private institution say that medication would benefit him, I would have no issues with at least trying it. If there are unwanted side effects or the results were not as desired, I just stop the medication and pick up the phone and let the prescriber know.

[CaroPhoenix]

First off, thank you everyone for the advice!

Now that that is out of the way, I got a note (e-mail) from the teacher last evening. In the first 3 days of summer school, Kelly has pulled hair, overly hugged and pushed 2 children over!

I've had 3 panic/anxiety attacks just thinking about it and talking to my mom & husband. First words out of husband's mouth were: "We've got to medicate her." I have no clue what to do now.

[Ree]

As I understand it, Kelly has behavioural issues, but she is not mentally challenged, right?

Is it impossible to expect that parental intervention would be effective?
I don't know the degree of Kelly's problems, but surely having Mommy and Daddy explain proper behaviour and reinforcing that this is how she should behave, would go a long way?

Is the pushing down of other children and the overly hugging and hair pulling normal behaviour for her?
Does she do it when you are around?
Can you correct that behaviour?
Is her only interaction with other children when she is at this school, and you are not there to guide her?

If so, is there any way that you can plan to have her interact with other children when you are there to correct her? Perhaps play dates with other children?
What about speaking to the parents of her classmates, and explain Kelly's situation, and that you want her to learn to play nice around other children and then schedule time outside of class. Watch how she interacts and give her firm guidance to know what is appropriate.

Medication should not be the only solution.
As I said previously, if the child was diabetic, a parent would not deny the insulin to them, but along with that, a good parent would also make sure that the child learned to eat properly and had a healthy lifestyle.

It's pretty darn easy to shove pills down a child's throat, but it's also important to teach the child healthy behaviours so they can function in the world.

[CaroPhoenix]

Every morning before the school bus comes to pick her up, Kelly & I sit on the front porch just "talking" about stuff. That's when I'm going to bring it up with her. Let her know that you have to be nice to the other kids there with her.

I do sometimes take her to the local playground, but I haven't lately because they have no more gate door to the playground, and Kelly runs off. I'm looking into other playgrounds and there is one in McLean that caters to children with all forms of disabilities. But I have no clue how to get there.

As for husband, I think he's a lost cause. As a side note, the divorce rate for couples with a child who has some form of disability (autism, cerebral palsy, etc.) is higher than the regular divorce rate.

[Ree]

Sadly, though, idrinkarum, if divorce occurred in this case, in my opinion it has more to do with your husband's complete self absorption and ignorance of your needs and feelings than it does with the fact that you have a special needs child.

From the time I first recall you posting, he has always caved and given in to his mother and completely ignored what you wanted.
He has pursued his own selfish interests to the point of completely excluding you and Kelly.

You are a married woman, but a large majority of the time, I suspect you feel like a single Mom trying to do the work of both parents with very little support or positive feedback from your husband.

I think you tend to hear more of what you aren't doing right, rather than compliments for your achievements and successes.

I think you are constantly belittled and made to feel like a failure as a mother, and I may be off base, but I also suspect you feel guilt that your child is autistic.

I suspect you think back to things you did while you were pregnant and wonder if any of that caused Kelly's problems.
I think your husband and his family constantly reinforce that guilt by making you feel that you are, somehow, to blame.

Like I said, I may be all wet, and feel free to tell me to go stuff it, but I have read your LJ and the posts on this site for a long time, and a part of me wants to kick the bejeezus out of that man and tell him to cut the damn apron strings, grow a set of balls, step up and be a real man by acting like a decent husband and father.

[Killer Bees]

Before you consider medication, I would suggest cutting out wheat, dairy and preservatives from her diet for a month, just to see if this makes a difference.

I don't believe in ADHD as a disease. I think it's just a symptom of too many toxins in your food. Doctors are too trigger happy these days when it comes to prescribing medication.

Also, a good naturopath is money well spent.

[MystyGlyttyr]

From what I understand from talking with my parents and siblings, my behavior as a little girl was much, MUCH more along the lines of your stereotypical autistic child than it is now. I would sit and watch TV for hours, repeating everything that was said, run around wild for no reason, insist on eating the exact same things over and over (for one entire year, I wouldn't eat anything for lunch except cheese and mustard sandwiches), etc. But then my parents started really working at it, correcting my behavior, telling me over and over and OVER to stop repeating, sit down, do homework, eat something else, etc. And they rode out a few fits and tantrums to do it, but 20 years later, I'm almost "normal" (so to speak), or at least able to function as a regular-if-weird person.

What I AM about to start doing for the remainder of the behaviors is trying vitamin therapy, because I've done a lot of reading and research and it seems like Vitamin B of all sorts and magnesium are a good combination. I'm not a doctor, though, just a nerd with a lot of time and way too many resources. Still, it might be something to discuss.

Also, since there's no nice way to say this, your husband is a chode. There are a lot of negative things I can say about my dad, and I do mean a LOT of negative things, but when I really break down to it, I have to admit that he's always been there for me. He didn't always say the right things, he didn't always do the right things, once in a while, he was a total IDIOT. But if I came running over to him after he got home from work (10 hour days in a high stress job five or six days a week), he'd at the very least pick me up and pretend to be interested in me, even when I know he really wasn't. Unless your husband is working like, 80-hour weeks, he has no excuse...and even then, he only has a flimsy one.

[TealJellyfish]

Not An expert in any shape way or form however I am not a fan of medicating kids if there are other options. These days there are other options (diet, behavior therapy the list goes on) It can be hard work and frustrating at times (My sister had ODD and my BF has ADHD)

As for your husband maybe he just wants a solution and isnt sure what that is so he wants the doctors option (which sounds simple) to be the best one so he knows what to do! If you dont want to medicate your daughter maybe looking at other ways of managing and helping her would help your husband so he has something concrete to look into... It sounds like your doing everything you can and Its nice to see a parent who isnt just reaching for the pill bottle to "fix" their child.

I hope that things work out ok! *sends good vibes*