Conceiving Children

[K245five]

A friend of mine and his wife recently had their fourth child in five years. However, there a couple of things that concern me about this.

First of all, they aren't exactly in the best financial situation. Neither one of them have anything beyond a high school education. The guy works a job about $3 above minimum wage, and his wife only works sporadically, doesn't drive, or anything. Even though she could definitely learn to drive so she could have reliable transportation to and from work. She's not handicapped in any way, shape, or form.

Secondly(and this part is what REALLY concerns me!), I get the impression that they didn't take the time to plan ANY of these kids! Reason being, when she found out she was pregnant with this latest addition to their family, her first response was "Oh, no!!!" followed by tears. Plus, with the other pregnancies, they kept it secret for awhile, then when they broke the news, they sounded indifferent or even ashamed of it.

These two are good people, but not very responsible in a lot of areas of their lives. Now, I never outright asked or said anything because that is their private business, but this got me to thinking all the same.

Why is it that people that aren't really fit to have kids seem to be able to reproduce at will, but good, decent couples who are financially stable and responsible and would make excellent parents and actually want to start a family and not "get stuck" with kids due to irresponsible behavior can't have a child to save their lives?

[strawbabies]

Those are my thoughts exactly. Because I'm waiting for exactly the right time to have my own children, I'll probably find out I can't get pregnant when I want to.

[NightAngel]

I'm not sure that the mere fact they are poor makes them "unfit parents".
If that's the case then so am I.

In the whole scope of things I can also tell you first hand that you CAN get pregnant while on birth control. Don't get me wrong- birth control is a wonderful thing but it only decreases the chance of pregnancy- it does not eliminate the risk. The surgeries for a more permnant fix are expensive not to mention you have to be a certain age and/or had a certain amount of children before the doctors will even consider giving you one. There is still a very tiny chance even with a Tubal or a Vasectomy.

The other thing is that day care is expensive. If I had to pay for day care there would be no point in me working at all as it would consume most of what I make. So perhaps it's more cost effective for them to have one parent stay home? Honestly, I also think that it's better for the kids to be with a parent than some stranger who may or may not take care of them properly.

Now, the real questions are- do they love their kids? Do they teach them right from wrong? Are they good to their kids (ie- not abusive)? Do they let their kids go hungry? Do the kids get to the doctor when they need to go? Etc., etc., etc.
Questions like these determine a fit parent.

My youngest son was an 'accident'. I was DONE with having kids and I was on the shot. Then I found out I was pregnant. I had mixed feelings about it at first but he's the cutest, sweetest kid and I'm SO VERY GLAD he's with us.

On the other hand I'm also very glad that I don't have to worry about getting pregnant too much anymore.

[K245five]

Now, the real questions are- do they love their kids? Do they teach them right from wrong? Are they good to their kids (ie- not abusive)? Do they let their kids go hungry? Do the kids get to the doctor when they need to go? Etc., etc., etc.
Questions like these determine a fit parent.

I wasn't really referring to abuse of the kids once they are born, although I do agree with what you said regarding that topic.

I'm referring to them being born as a result of irresponsibility as it relates to sexual practices. To expand on that, having children when the people involved aren't really in a position, financially or otherwise, to be having children. It's the old "If ya can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em!" adage.

I've seen many parents who don't have much financially and are very good parents. But, I can't help but wonder if they got themselves in a jam because of a moment of irresponsibility to begin with.

I mean, you see all these teen pregnancies out there where the two people involved can't even take care of themselves independently. How in the world are they going to take care of a kid!? Another sad part is that that child didn't ask to be born.

[One-Fang]

I don't think K mean they're unfit to have any children at all, but more that they're simply not financially or emotionally in the right place right now to have *more* kids.

It's the age old problem of counting the hits and not the misses. You see an irresponsible young family and you think "Why do these people not have any trouble breeding" without noticing all of the irresponsible young people who aren't, because being irresponsible and not having a child on your arm doesn't stand out. You see a couple desperately wanting a child and ask "Why can't these good people concieve" when you're not noticing all the happy parents of beautiful babies who didn't really have much trouble, because being a parent and having a child doesn't really stand out.

I have a couple of friends (two different couples) who desperately want kids and can't do it themselves for a variety of reasons. It breaks me up that I'm proven fertile (had an accidental conception followed by a miscarriage*) and I'm choosing not to have kids. They want them so bad. I can have them, but I'm not doing it.

Life isn't as nicely 'fair' as we want it to be. Instead it's perfectly 'fair', as in totally random. It neither advantages nor disadvantages people. It doesn't reward or punish. Stuff just happens to some and not others.

* - Yes, I know a miscarriage doesn't mean I can carry a child to term, but still... I know I can at least *get* pregnant.

[SengaKitty]

I'm referring to them being born as a result of irresponsibility as it relates to sexual practices. To expand on that, having children when the people involved aren't really in a position, financially or otherwise, to be having children. It's the old "If ya can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em!" adage.

you see all these teen pregnancies out there where the two people involved can't even take care of themselves independently. How in the world are they going to take care of a kid!? Another sad part is that that child didn't ask to be born.


I don't mean to get into an arguement on this subject, but I've got to get in here. You all know that I am currently at Job Corps, trying to get my life together, but that I also have a lot of debt right now. You also know that me and the boyfriend are having problems, but trying to work them out. No, he is not abusive. He is, however, also here at Job Corps, trying to get HIS life straight. Next week, just as the final proof, we are buying a pregnancy test. I am 20 years old and he is 19.
Now, you said that most of these pregnancies are due to "irresponsible" behavior on the part of the parents. Let me tell you something. I was on the shot, and we were using a condom when (if I AM pregnant, and all the signs are there and then some that I am) I concieved.
Please, don't blame accidental pregnancies on irresponsibility on the parents' parts. I'm not irresponsible, and neither is he. It just HAPPENED. And sometimes, these things do JUST HAPPEN.
To the mods and everyone else: If that seemed an inappropriate response, I apologize, but reading these boards really hit me, especially since I just announced my own news less than a week ago on this same board.

[One-Fang]

I think there's quite a difference between your apparant unplanned pregnancy, and having four kids under five. One is 'accidents happen'. 'Accidents' do not happen four times in under five years. Bad planning happens four times in under five years.

Also, please understand that not everyone has time to be reading every thread. I didn't know your news either. OT is a very busy forum. I only check once a day at best, and there's usually around two pages of threads with new posts. If I checked every one of those, I'd never do anything else.

I know what you mean about knowing first. I did. I was on holiday when the first suspicions came up, and not able to go get a kit or see a doctor. When I got back and did, it was really only a formality. I'd have been highly surprised had it come back negative. When you do take the test, take three, or go see a doctor. They're not terribly reliable, those home tests.

[Spiffy McMoron]

I don't want this to turn into a giant flame-fest regarding safe sexual practises, wealth, infertility, and conception. If this starts to get rowdy, I will not hesitate to shut this thread down and issue out punishment as needed.

[K245five]

I think there's quite a difference between your apparant unplanned pregnancy, and having four kids under five. One is 'accidents happen'. 'Accidents' do not happen four times in under five years. Bad planning happens four times in under five years.

Also, please understand that not everyone has time to be reading every thread. I didn't know your news either. OT is a very busy forum. I only check once a day at best, and there's usually around two pages of threads with new posts. If I checked every one of those, I'd never do anything else.

Exactly!

First of all, I realize that sometimes these things happen. I mean, the only sure fire way is abstinence when it comes to pregnancies, STD's, I get that. I can see one time, but not four times in five years. That's just irresponsible.

Also, although I visit this site frequently, I don't get the chance to visit this particular forum all that often as I simply don't have the time to visit them all. These all appear to be busy forums, and it would be way too time consuming to read them all.

Lastly, this was not intended to be a potential flame fest, so my apologies for accidentally giving folks the wrong idea.

[Lace Neil Singer]

But most teen parents round where I live ARE irresponsible. They talk about all the parties they're going to once they "pop the baby out" and a lot of them dump the sprog on their poor unfortunate parents. Plus, they come to the supermarket where I work and try to buy alcohol and cigarettes while dragging a toddler by the hand and with a huge bump. It's no wonder I'm jaded on the subject. -_-

[SengaKitty]

Like I said, I don't mean for my previous post to be a flame, or anything else. I realize that not everyone is able to read every thread that is posted. I wasn't trying to start a fight. And yes, four times in five years doesn't sound accidental. But still, you also have to remember that birth control doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and neither do condoms. They may or may not have their own reasons that they keep having children. The fact that your friends don't seem HAPPY to have their children, however, is unsettling.
And I'm planning on getting one of the tests that have two tests in the box, that way I can make SURE SURE.

[K245five]

The fact that your friends don't seem HAPPY to have their children, however, is unsettling.

Again, it all points to them not really having the means to take care of them once they are born. However, they try their best to be the best parents they can be regardless. I think they're upset because kids are expensive to care for, and they keep making this mistake over and over again.

They really love their kids and see to it that they are taken care of in all aspects of their lives. But, as I alluded to earlier, they tend to be irresponsible in some areas of their lives, and this is one of those areas.

[Ree]

...
Now, you said that most of these pregnancies are due to "irresponsible" behavior on the part of the parents. Let me tell you something. I was on the shot, and we were using a condom when (if I AM pregnant, and all the signs are there and then some that I am) I concieved.
Please, don't blame accidental pregnancies on irresponsibility on the parents' parts. I'm not irresponsible, and neither is he. It just HAPPENED. And sometimes, these things do JUST HAPPEN.
...

...And I'm planning on getting one of the tests that have two tests in the box, that way I can make SURE SURE.You made your announcement and you don't even know for sure???
Don't they have free clinics where you can go and get more reliable tests?

I would think it should be a priority for you to obtain medical care to ensure that everything in the pregnancy is progressing normally, especially considering the fact that you are young and have been under a lot of stress.

Also, if you aren't actually pregnant, then the interruption in your cycle would be a cause for concern that really should be checked out, especially since you say you were on the shot for birth control. (I do know that the shot can cause a cycle to stop completely, and can also cause pregnancy-like symptoms.)
If you are pregnant, the fact that it happened while you were on this shot is also a serious thing that requires checking. Doctors still don't know the effect of these hormones on devloping fetuses.

Whether you are or aren't an expectant parent, getting medical attention now would be the responsible thing to do. ;)

This public service announcment brought to you by Ree. :p :soapbox:

[NightAngel]

Huh, I guessed I missed the part about being on the shot before...

Actually, it is considered normal to not have your period when you're on the shot. Back when I was on the shot I'd sometimes go for 6 or 7 months at a time without a period. Of course, when I did wind up pregnant it made for an interesting time telling but I'd had 2 kids already so I was pretty aware of my body's "you're pregnant" signals.

However, you SHOULD go to the doctor and get a physical so you can be absolutely CERTAIN you are okay and the baby (if there is a baby) is healthy.