Video Problem

[Dave0523]

I am having the strangest problem with my computer. I am not getting any video signal from the video card at all. It's not the card; I swapped it with the card in my wife's computer (identical cards) and it works fine in hers. Hers is not working in mine either. It's not Windows, it's booting normally; I can hear it. And when I switched over to the onboard video, everything's fine, so it's not the monitor. This setup has been working for months with no problems, until this morning. Again, everything booted fine; just no video signal. I tried Gateway tech (non)support; they told me when I install a new video card, I have to disable the old drivers in Windows. Never mind I told them twice that this was not a new install, but something that has been working fine for months until this morning. So they're came up with take it the store I bought it from. Which I suppose I might have to do, but I thought I'd come here and see if anyone has any ideas.

To sum up, sometime between midnight and 5AM, while the computer was turned off, the motherboard and the video card decided to stop talking to each other. I can get by with onboard video, but that's not conducive to game playing.

Sorry for the long run-on paragraph, but I'm still a bit frustrated. Especially when I asked to be transfered to a Tier 2 tech, hoping to talk to someone who I hoped would understand me.

--Dave

(hoping not to come off as a SC)

[MadMike]

Sounds to me like a problem with the motherboard, like maybe something's wrong with the slot you put the card in.

[JustADude]

Sounds like there's a physical problem with the socket.
Try switching the video card to a different socket if you can and see if that works.

[Dave0523]

Unfortunately, it's the only slot. It's annoying, since it's been working fine since February. Luckily, the rig's only 11 months old, so hopefully I'll be able to get the "authorized service center" to take care of it. If I go that route, I hope there's no problem with my keeping hold of the hard drives. I'd hate to lose my data, and I'm paranoid about sending it away. Also, would there be a problem with the fact that I added a sound card, wireless card, and replaced the power supply (new video card needed more power than the installed 300W)?

--Dave

(Cool avatar, Mike!)

[JustADude]

The add-ons shouldn't be a problem if they were in place for more than a few days before the problem started. Here's the universal rule of thumb for troubleshooting, though:
When in doubt, take it out
That means, if you think the component might be causing you problems, remove it from the equation and see if the rest of the setup works.


Following that rule, and assuming that (as you said) no software has changed, my suggested fix-attempts would be as follows:

#1: Switch which power connector(s) are hooked up to the video card.

#2a: Remove Sound Card and Wireless.
#2b: If it works then, replace first one then the other to see which one it is.

#3: Go take it to the ASC and have someone who can do hardware fault-testing look at it.

[Dave0523]

The add-ons shouldn't be a problem if they were in place for more than a few days before the problem started. Here's the universal rule of thumb for troubleshooting, though:
When in doubt, take it out
That means, if you think the component might be causing you problems, remove it from the equation and see if the rest of the setup works.


Following that rule, and assuming that (as you said) no software has changed, my suggested fix-attempts would be as follows:

#1: Switch which power connector(s) are hooked up to the video card.

#2a: Remove Sound Card and Wireless.
#2b: If it works then, replace first one then the other to see which one it is.

#3: Go take it to the ASC and have someone who can do hardware fault-testing look at it.

Guess I'll have to go with number 3, then, since I only have the one slot, the one power switch, and the sound and wireless (and video) have been in for 7 months with no problems. Guess I'll have to talk to them and see if I can bring it in without the new power supply and new hard drives I put in. Or do you think that will make me have to pay out of pocket at a normal repair shop?

--Dave

(Thanks for the help, btw. I appreciate it)

[Pedersen]

Hey, Dave, I might have some good news for you: It doesn't sound like a major issue, and not even a difficult fix.

Here's what it sounds like to me: Somehow, the computer changed video settings to use a non-supported resolution by your monitor. Not all monitors will report that the resolution is out of range, either. They'll just go black (this is especially true with older non-LCD monitors).

The fix? Depends. Can you hook up to a different monitor and get that work? For instance, will your wife's monitor work if hooked up to your computer? If so, connect up to that monitor, and open the Display settings in Control Panel, then follow instructions at the end.

If not, you're going to have a harder time. Basically, you'll need to either get Remote Assistance, or Remote Desktop, working. Actually, another alternative: Use TightVNC (http://www.tightvnc.org/) to get things connected. What you're looking to do here is be able to view the desktop from remote, whether or not the monitor is showing anything. Once you've got that (using any of those three methods), go to the Display settings in Control Panel.

Now, you're going to have to explore a bit, since every video card has their own way of setting things up. What you want to do, though, is go for stupidly low resolution, and one of the three standards resolutions: 640x480, 800x600, or 1024x768. Furthermore, set your number of colors as low as possible.

Now for the exploration part: Search through the settings until you find the vertical display frequency, also called refresh rate. This will likely be under the Advanced button. Set it to the lowest number available, usually 60Hz. Apply all of these changes, and your monitor is likely to work again.

Now, you can adjust the settings upward, but only one at a time (for instance, adjust the resolution, and apply changes, then color, then refresh rate). Save the refresh rate for last, and set it as high as possible. After you hit Apply, the screen may go black on you. Don't worry if it seems to stay that way, since Windows is asking if you want to keep these settings. If you don't click Yes (or hit Enter, or Space, etc), it will revert back, and you can experiment some more.

I've glossed over some of the details, mainly because I don't do this all the time, so don't remember all the details off the top of my head. I hope this is enough to help, but if it is not, PM me or IM me (details in profile), or post here, and I'll respond.

[Naaman]

Here's what it sounds like to me: Somehow, the computer changed video settings to use a non-supported resolution by your monitor. Not all monitors will report that the resolution is out of range, either. They'll just go black (this is especially true with older non-LCD monitors).

My thoughts....
1) If he's able to see the POST\Gateway splash screen on startup, then it may be a resolution issue, although I've always found the easiest way to fix it was to lower the resolution in Safe Mode:
When starting the computer tap the f8 key after the first beep, keep tapping till you get to the startup menu then arrow down to safe mode. Once Windows starts right click anywhere on the desktop that's not an icon and choose Properties> Settings> crank the slider down to 640x480 and click apply (if it's already there then nudge it up a bit click apply then back to 640x480 and apply) restart normally and see what happens.

2) Something else that's worth doing is to reset the BIOS, just in case something's been altered there. I don't know how to get to a Gateway BIOS so check their site for info, once you're there you should have a "reset everything" option - just follow the instructions to do that.

3) Get the latest drivers for your motherboard, it's vaguely possible that Windows can't speak to the card properly due to corruption, once again check at the manufacturers site for downloads and instructions.

That said, from what you've described, I'm leaning towards a hosed PCIe slot :(

[digilight]

Sounds like a BIOS problem to me. Shouldn't you have to disable the onboard video in order to inable the video card. I think that the BIOS reverted back to the original setting. if you boot to the onboard video what is your clock saying, ie is it reading accurate. If it has a fucked up time than the battery took a crap on you and reset everything to factory specs.

This should be a simple but slightly daunting task.

[Dave0523]

Update: Haven't done anything yet, my AC crapped out on me too and that takes precedence in the money line. I have a very limited BIOS (stupid Gateway motherboard). There is NO option for disabling onboard video. There's an option for disabling audio, but not video. I even flashed the BIOS to the latest version and nothing. I think the slot just fried on me. :(

--Dave

[Shabo]

Um, I hate to be a bummer, but wouldn't you have voided your warranty by opening your case to install new PCI cards? You might want to check on that. If that's the case, then you are definitely going to have to pay for it... if they find out that you've been inside the case, that is. And since you have non-Gateway cards in there... well, good luck trying to come up with excuses for that one.

(I build my computers myself so I don't have to worry about that whole pesky warranty thing. You sound like you might have enough technical expertise to do it, too.)

[Dave0523]

Um, I hate to be a bummer, but wouldn't you have voided your warranty by opening your case to install new PCI cards? You might want to check on that. If that's the case, then you are definitely going to have to pay for it... if they find out that you've been inside the case, that is. And since you have non-Gateway cards in there... well, good luck trying to come up with excuses for that one.

(I build my computers myself so I don't have to worry about that whole pesky warranty thing. You sound like you might have enough technical expertise to do it, too.)

Yeah, probably did. I used to build my own machines until it was no longer cheaper to do so. But, onboard video sucks, so I had to get a better card. Of course, the power supply wasn't big enough for the card, so in a new power supply went. The onboard audio was using too many CPU cycles, so I put a sound card in. I moved the machine to another room in the house, got tired of looking at the blue cable draped across the floor, so went wireless. And I put another hard drive also, just because.

And I'll just end up taking it to a local place, since I'm sure the "authorized repair center" would just swap another box for mine, and I'm kind of attached to all my data, and wouldn't want to see it go away (and maybe have someone else mucking about in it).

--Dave

[JustADude]

What kind of processor do you have, are your HDDs IDE or SATA, and what socket-type are Memory and Video Card?

Depending on what they are, you might be able to get a replacement Mobo for ~$50, which will likely be better than the PoS the Gateway came with, and about $5 for a tube of thermal paste to use when re-attaching the CPU and heatsink. After that, it's just a long slog taking the guts out and putting it back together, with the fiddly little wires to make the lights blink correctly being the toughest part.

[sms001]

I am having the strangest problem with my computer. I am not getting any video signal from the video card at all.

Let me make sure I have your troubleshooting tree down.

NO software/hardware changes between last working and not working.

NOT the card. (Works fine in another machine.)

NOT the software. (Booting with onboard video works.)

NOT the resolution from the OS. (I assume you tried cranking this down while you could see the machine in operation while using the onboard video. Also, you didn't mention seeing a BIOS splash, I assume a completely blank screen all during boot with video card?)

(Speaking of which, are there any POST beeps indicating that the BIOS can't find a video out when the card is in, or is that negated because there is an onboard vid chip?)

Hate to say it, but sounds like the slot took a dive. It can happen. If you're gonna take a run at the ASC, I would move all my data to the extra hard drive you mentioned and take it out. Might want to switch back the PS too, if you still have the old one. Make it as close to original spec as possible and see what they say.
Good luck! :)

oops! Forgot one. Do you use the same signal cable when going from onboard video to monitor that you use from video card to monitor?

[Naaman]

There is NO option for disabling onboard video. There's an option for disabling audio, but not video. I even flashed the BIOS to the latest version and nothing.


The big manufacturers will have removed this option from the BIOS after hard experience. Too many dumb users set it to yes then phone up to complain when the solution is to either buy a graphics card or pay to have it shipped backed as a non-warranty repair.

[Dave0523]

Let me make sure I have your troubleshooting tree down.

NO software/hardware changes between last working and not working.

NOT the card. (Works fine in another machine.)

NOT the software. (Booting with onboard video works.)

NOT the resolution from the OS. (I assume you tried cranking this down while you could see the machine in operation while using the onboard video. Also, you didn't mention seeing a BIOS splash, I assume a completely blank screen all during boot with video card?)

(Speaking of which, are there any POST beeps indicating that the BIOS can't find a video out when the card is in, or is that negated because there is an onboard vid chip?)

Hate to say it, but sounds like the slot took a dive. It can happen. If you're gonna take a run at the ASC, I would move all my data to the extra hard drive you mentioned and take it out. Might want to switch back the PS too, if you still have the old one. Make it as close to original spec as possible and see what they say.
Good luck! :)

oops! Forgot one. Do you use the same signal cable when going from onboard video to monitor that you use from video card to monitor?

You are correct on all assumptions. Everything was working fine when I shut down. Then 5.5 hours later, I turned on and no picture. No POST screen, no beeps (onboard video works) , monitor reports no signal and shuts itself off. And, yes, different cables; onboard is VGA, card is DVI (and , yes, I tried another DVI cable, so I know it's not that either; other card and cable are running wife's computer just fine.). I'll just take it into a repair shop myself and see what they can do for me, since I don't know which power supply is the original (have 3 in my "part" box).

--Dave

[sms001]

And, yes, different cables; onboard is VGA, card is DVI (and , yes, I tried another DVI cable, so I know it's not that either

Yeah, you seemed to have it down pat, but even the best forget a link in the chain once in a while. Oh well. Hope all goes well at the shop. On the other tentacle, how's the AC? :)

[Dave0523]

Yeah, you seemed to have it down pat, but even the best forget a link in the chain once in a while. Oh well. Hope all goes well at the shop. On the other tentacle, how's the AC? :)
They had to order a new cord. 5 business days. So, it's next Wednesday. And I'm in Florida, btw. So happy the window unit in the bedroom is working. :)

--Dave

[Dave0523]

OK, after 2 months of not bothering to take the box in, today I get home from my daughter's TaeKwonDo class, turn on the computer, and the monitor reports DVI input instead of VGA. Checked out Device Manager, and GeForce 7900 GS is listed instead of GeForce 6100 (on-board video). Weird. I have done NOTHING to attempt to fix the problem. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

--Dave

[JustADude]

OK, after 2 months of not bothering to take the box in, today I get home from my daughter's TaeKwonDo class, turn on the computer, and the monitor reports DVI input instead of VGA. Checked out Device Manager, and GeForce 7900 GS is listed instead of GeForce 6100 (on-board video). Weird. I have done NOTHING to attempt to fix the problem. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

--Dave

Okay, that's just WEIRD! Maybe an auto-update fixed the thing?

[Broomjockey]

Pfft. My computer's weirder. In addition to throwing fits at first which fixed themselves after I took it back to the store, it gives me DX10 effects when games run in DX9 mode, patches for Hellgate won't run correctly the first 4 times, but when I run it the fifth, it works, though it tells me it's crashed first, and other assorted insanities. And that's only this system that I had for 2 months.

My old one also went through the joys of renaming the video card, though that caused issues, not fixed them. That tower also had a wide variety of bizzare, unexplainable occurances. Just chalk this up in the win column, and hope that a hummingbird in Africa doesn't flap its wings.

[sms001]

turn on the computer, and the monitor reports DVI input instead of VGA. Checked out Device Manager, and GeForce 7900 GS is listed instead of GeForce 6100 (on-board video). Weird.


:lol:

Sometimes gremlins totally rock.

[wolfie]

Are you using Vista as your operating system? Is there any chance that the computer was trying to play copyright-protected media? Vista is designed on the premise that even though you paid for the computer, it's not yours - it actually belongs to the publisher of the copyrighted media you're trying to play. If the media supports (D)igital (R)ights (M)anagement, Vista won't feed a signal over a high-quality digital link that doesn't support DRM, on the assumption that you're trying to pirate the content. Low-quality analog links are OK, because the signal is degraded.

DVI (from your add-in card) is a high-quality digital link, VGA is a low-quality analog link (component video packaged into a single connector). If, on a Vista system, you (for example) try to play a DRM-protected movie (such as HD-DVD), you can't watch it on a DVI monitor, but you can on a VGA monitor (unless your card is like the ATI All-In-Wonder I have, where the "native" connector is DVI, and to get a VGA signal you have to plug in a "dongle" to convert it to VGA.

If this "Vista + DVI + DRM" issue is your problem, the only solution is to upgrade your operating system to XP.

[Dave0523]

Are you using Vista as your operating system? Is there any chance that the computer was trying to play copyright-protected media? Vista is designed on the premise that even though you paid for the computer, it's not yours - it actually belongs to the publisher of the copyrighted media you're trying to play. If the media supports (D)igital (R)ights (M)anagement, Vista won't feed a signal over a high-quality digital link that doesn't support DRM, on the assumption that you're trying to pirate the content. Low-quality analog links are OK, because the signal is degraded.

DVI (from your add-in card) is a high-quality digital link, VGA is a low-quality analog link (component video packaged into a single connector). If, on a Vista system, you (for example) try to play a DRM-protected movie (such as HD-DVD), you can't watch it on a DVI monitor, but you can on a VGA monitor (unless your card is like the ATI All-In-Wonder I have, where the "native" connector is DVI, and to get a VGA signal you have to plug in a "dongle" to convert it to VGA.

If this "Vista + DVI + DRM" issue is your problem, the only solution is to upgrade your operating system to XP.

I'm proud to say that I'm running XP. My brother-in-law is beta-testing Vista (meaning he bought a laptop with Vista pre-loaded), and boy, does he hate it. I've had to try to get stuff working for him, and I now know I'll be sticking with XP as long as possible.

--Dave

[Dave0523]

Well, it turns out the problem was the motherboard the whole time. It finally gave out completely. Luckily it didn't take anything with it, so after replacing it, everything is again working fine. Amazingly enough, I did NOT have to re-install Windows. Just popped in the motherboard drivers CD, and had to reboot a half dozen times, but everything straightened itself out and works fine. Thanks for all the suggestions here, though. I appreciated it.

--Dave

[lordlundar]

patches for Hellgate won't run correctly the first 4 times, but when I run it the fifth, it works, though it tells me it's crashed first,

From what I've been hearing with the hellgate patches, that's par fpr the course.:p

[Broomjockey]

From what I've been hearing with the hellgate patches, that's par fpr the course.:p

Actually, it's gotten better since then. Like all modern games, they shipped it before it was really finished. :shrug: