I want a Gaming Rig

[Broomjockey]

As MadMike asked for help in putting together a new media centre pc, I'm going to ask for help piecing together a gaming rig. (Summary at bottom for the ADD crowd ;))

This is gonna be my first custom-built system, so I wanna do it right. Not that I'm knocking pre-built machines. I got one from Dell (Don't hurt me! *cowers*) for Christmas 2004ish, and I only ever had to get some more RAM, otherwise it's all OEM. It's getting on in years though, so new pc time, as a quick glance around the parts store showed me my current case isn't gonna be able to handle the new stuff I'd like to get.

So, I'd like to hear from you guys what I should put in this system, and also whether or not it would be a good idea to get Vista installed, since it's a gaming machine.

I figure I can keep my old DVD drive, and then get a DVD-RW to replace my CD-RW drive, and I picked up a Geforce 8800 GTS (or something like that, don't have the box in front of me) recently for a good price, so there's the launch point. I'd like to balance price vs. performance, with a slight bias to performance.

Okay, to summarize: want a custom built gaming, already have a new video card, so I need the rest, ranging from case to sound card, etc, and should I get Vista now rather than later, as it's for gaming. Thanks in advance all! :D

[JustADude]

First thing, I'd wait a few months to see how AMD's new Phenom line of processors stack up to the Intel Core-2 line. AMD generally gives you a lot more bang for your buck than Intel, and Core-2 was released in a response to the dual-core Athlon processors, so AMD is going to be returning fire with something that should smack Intel down as hard as the Core-2 hit AMD.

There are a few things you should go for that are often overlooked, but will have a big impact in the long run:

*Round Cables: Stylish, only slightly more expensive, and they take up less room, giving better air-flow.

*Modular PSU: Again, not having unneeded cables frees up air-flow space, and they're not really any more expensive per watt.

*Thermal Paste: A thin coat between the CPU and the heat-sink will be a huge help in keeping heat down. A tube with enough for several installs is like $5.

*Case Design: Read the reviews, check the specs, and pick a tower or mid-tower that is good quality, has sufficient cooling fans, and has the external features you want (Integrated USB ports, speaker jacks, etc)

*Case-mod: Not actually a high-impact item, but if you go for a case with a side-window you can get LED-lit fans and LED clusters to make the inside glow, with a total price difference of less than a stick of RAM. Looks particularly snazzy when combined with properly color-coordinated sheathed round cables.


Beyond that, I'd recommend going for high quality RAM and a top-of-the-line MoBo even if it means dropping your processor speed down a level or two. A 2.8GHz processor with crappy RAM and bus-speeds will perform worse for gaming than a 2.5GHz with great support behind it.

I'll throw in more specific advice if you want to go with an Intel system, but since the Phenom isn't out yet, I can't point you towards a specific configuration for my top recommendation. :p

[Broomjockey]

Hmm. Well, I'm not thrilled about the idea of waiting a couple months, and I'm almost a total hardware newbie, so honestly, I don't know. Are the Core-2s fairly stable? Any recurring issues cropping up around them? I didn't even know they'd gotten to core-2 yet >_<

So, assuming the stability of the Core-2, I'd probably go with that, as I'm an impatient SOB ;) Thanks :)

[JustADude]

So, assuming the stability of the Core-2, I'd probably go with that, as I'm an impatient SOB ;) Thanks :)

Yeah, the Core-2-Duo is the dominant desktop processor line on the market right now. They have different types of core (actual design of chip), but if you want a good cost/benefit balance I'd recommend the following guts for your tower:

CPU: Conroe-core 2.66GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029) This is the best before the price:speed ratio starts going to shit.
MoBo: ASUS P5K-VM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131187) Stable, good over-clocking ability if you want to try your hand at it later, and it's in the pack holding the fastest bus-speeds on the market.
RAM: 2x CORSAIR Dominator 2GB (2 x 1GB) RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145043) for a total of 4GB. It matches the native memory speed on the MoBo, which is good, and Corsair is head-and-shoulders the best brand on the market. If you don't want to drop the green for 4GB of RAM, get one pack and be sure to place them in alternating slots.
Sound: Creative X-Fi Xtremegamer (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102006) The "Platinum" and "Fatal1ty" ones aren't really useful unless you want the control plate that mounts in one of your DVD drive slots.
Case: Thermaltake Armor Series (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133154) It might be overkill, but that's my personal choice, since it's the best on the market for under $200, and you won't need any extra cooling fans beyond one for the CPU.

[lordlundar]

This is going to get very expensive:

Things to consider:

Processor: Dual core and Core-2 are the standard, and anything short of 2.8GHz is not worth it in a gaming rig. Physics processing is becoming a big factor in the future, and these chips are best suited for it if you aren't going for a seperate PPU

Ram: 2GB min DDR2 is your best bet.

Sound card: go for a SoundBlaster. There are some better ones but are not designed for gaming.

Hard Drive: Go Serial ATA, as big as you can afford and I recommend two. One for OS and installed apps, ones for non-recoverable files (documents, save games, created images, etc)

Power Supply: more power is always better, especially with a 8800. Minimum 600W is recommended, 750W+ is recommended for futureproofing. Modular is ideal, but if you don't want to play with the connectors, one that has all types is a good choice.

MBoard: In addition to accommodating the above, you also want to consider an SLI board, and the max upgrade level for your RAM. Go with an ATX form, as it can handle the gear the best. If your keeping your optical drive, odds are it isn't a SATA connection, so having an IDE connection is also a requirement. The higher quality MBoards also have a heat dispersion system on the board to aid the heatsink.

Case: DO NOT GET A SLIM CASE! Trust me on this.:p Consider what bays you want for it and what connectors you want as well. Something minor to consider is the securing system. A few cases have what's called "zero screw" mechanisms, which use plastic locking systems.

Bells and whistles: These are little things. Media card bays, Displays, etc. Nothing needed for immediate use, but if you want one down the road, keeping bays open for them is something to consider.

[Mr. Rager!]

So, assuming the stability of the Core-2, I'd probably go with that, as I'm an impatient SOB ;) Thanks :)

Personally, I think the Duo Core 2s are phenomenal!!! You're not going to try and over clock it, are you? If not, I wouldn't worry one bit about the Duo Core 2.

(Personally, for me... I'm a laptop person and I wouldn't touch a laptop unless it had a Centrino processor in it.)


Hit the RAM hard... don't skimp out at all on the RAM. Also, make sure that you get a good solid graphics card, research the games that you want to play and see what people say for graphics cards. I think DVD drives now are cheap enough to where you shouldn't worry about using your old one. Just get a new one...

[lordlundar]

Also, make sure that you get a good solid graphics card, research the games that you want to play and see what people say for graphics cards.

He has a Nvidia 8800. One of the top of the line.

[Broomjockey]

Lundlar, you mentioned a seperate physics processing unit. Is that a card, or a chip for the mobo, or...? I probably won't get one at first, but I'll need to leave a spot for it in the case (not slim, got ya ;))

Otherwise, I think I've now got the basics. I'll do a little looking around for price, and then put up the specs of what I'm considering, so you guys can tell me what I missed :)

[Mr. Rager!]

He has a Nvidia 8800. One of the top of the line.

I skipped right over that :p

[Geek King]

I'll just add that Gamespot (www.gamespot.com) has some good reviews on graphic cards for all price ranges, and will tell you how a medium-cost card stacks up against the top-of-the-line. Look in the hardware archives.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, this is the big question, that I expect more than a little debate on. This is a gaming rig, meaning I have to conform to the specs they say, meaning Vista.

Do I get it? Hold off? Upgrade later? Not going to need it? If I do need it, what version?

[lordlundar]

Lundlar, you mentioned a seperate physics processing unit. Is that a card, or a chip for the mobo, or...?

At current, it's a separate card like a video card, though the upcoming quad core processors are (supposedly) going to be able to do it as well.

Right now, it's only one manufacturer of the chips for it and this is their website. (http://www.ageia.com/)

For those of you wondering, I do have one and though the support is pretty small, it makes a world of difference.:D

As for your other question, with vista, odds are you can hold off. Most parts for custom machines will run in an XP environment and unless you're planning on playing Halo 2 or ShadowRun, you don't need Vista.

[Shabo]

Vista? Get it? I'm afraid that I can't give you an unbiased opinion of that. I would recommend waiting on it though, simply because I have heard people have problems with that operating system and older games. You need to do some research on the games that you want to play in order to determine whether or not you need XP or Vista. If you do decide to go with XP, get the pro edition. If you want Vista, don't get the home premium.

Find someone near you that's built a computer before. It's a little challenging to set up your first computer because you should apply your own thermal paste to the cpu rather than use the stock paste that's applied on the case fan. Also, you need to plug your case into the mobo, and that can be a little difficult too if you haven't done it before and the case's wire labels don't match up with the mobo instructions.

I shop at Newegg for all my stuffs because they usually have the best deal on everything, plus a ton of customer reviews that you can use to help you decide what model of whatever to go with. You can also check out Zipzoomfly.com for deals (usually have free shipping!), but the problem with them is that they have not so pretty of a website and no customer reviews.

I personally am an AMD fan, but I have nothing against Intel's Core 2 Duos. There are more motherboards made for Intel since they have the overwhelming majority of market share, but AMD has fantastic customer support :D. Definitely get a good processor, nothing below 3 ghz, and a dual core all the way. You are going to want to get at least 2 gigs of dual channel DDR2 ram, and a good size hard drive. I would recommend splurging on the hard drive, too. Get yourself a SATA 3.0 gb/s 10,000+ rpm drive. You'll appreciate it, trust me.

For the case, get something that has 120mm fans. The 80mms are noisy. Even if they don't come with the fans, they are cheap enough to add a few in to install while installing everything else. Ummm... Sound card was never important to me as I only have 2.1 channel speakers (I've got a really small room) so I just use what was on mobo with no issues. As to whether or not you want that, that's up to your sound preferences. The physics game card is nice, but only if you're going to be playing really high end games with demanding graphics. For something like WOW it's not going to make a difference. So that's something that if you want to build the best gaming rig available, go for it, but if you don't want to spend the money on it now, leave a slot open to install it later.

I think that's everything I wanted to say...

[Broomjockey]

Okay, so it sounds like stick with XP for now, and maybe set up a dual boot later, and I'm taking a really good look at that case JustADude showed me, as it's got 120 fans, and a ton of extra slots that I can use to upgrade later (as I'll probably wait to get the physics card, and maybe a second video card if I'm ever that rich ;)).

I was wondering, my old hard drive, would it be okay to take it and use it as a slave drive in my new machine, so that I don't have to try and move all the data over (I really don't wanna try and move all my music and such), or would it be better to use it for the main drive?

On the plus side, I've got a guy who's said he'll help me put it together once I have all the parts, so I'm not likely to blow anything up :D

[Shabo]

Fantastic! Glad you have someone who can give you a hand. Trust me, you'll appreciate it when it comes time, even if you pretty much know what you're doing.

You can use your current drive as either slave or master, but keep your games on a separate drive. Might not be a bad idea to also back up your important documents and photos, etc. on the second drive as well just to make sure you have them safe in case one of your drives fails.

If you put together a list of components that you are looking to purchase, post it here and we can critique you on it. I would say go with a standard ATX mobo as it will allow you more room to move around in the case, and also get at least a mid size tower. If you aren't going to be moving it around too much, a full size will give you the most space, but they're also rather large. Mid size will give you enough room without being too large, but sometimes they can be cramped with the way they are set up, so make sure you look in reviews for people to say that it's a nice roomy case.

If you really care, too, you can get the heatsinks on your ram. It's not a terrible idea, but not really necessary if you're going to have a ton of case fans to keep everything cool.

[Broomjockey]

Well, first I need to decide where to get the parts from, as they've got similar, but slightly different lists. I'm hoping for some opinions on those, though it's mainly the Canadian techies who'll be helpful at this point (curses Newegg for not shipping to Canada)

http://www.memoryexpress.com/

This is the place that the guy who's helping me turned me on to. It's local, so I can pick up my parts in store, but it seems slightly more expensive, but with more options.

http://www.ncix.com/

I just found that one not long ago on my own. Prices seem slightly better, but I'd like to know if anyone's heard anything about it or done business with them.

[UncleImpy]

I was about to say Newegg until I saw your comment about not shipping to Canada. Whoops, I thought they did.

I have to second the comments about the Core2 Duos. I have an Intel Extreme mobo (I think the 945x? Im at work, cant verify) and a conroe, with twin GeForce 8800s and 2 gig of ram per channel, and I HIGHLY recommend that setup (I can render character details on dwarves on the opposite side of the smelting pit in Ironforge, if that reference helps) . Im still using XP on it and have had no problems. I'm leery of moving to Vista because I keep hearing horror stories about the SLI drivers causing trouble with Vista. More importantly, since all of this isnt the top of the line anymore, you'll be able to get it for pretty cheap.

[lordlundar]

I actually ordered all my upgrade parts from NCIX and their computer builder is a pretty nice setup. The only catch I've found is that they only ship out their stuff on Friday, so doing a weekend setup doesn't happen. Apart from that, they're a very good company.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, talked with my computer guy today, and made a few changes. Barring any serious objections from you guys, this will be the core of the system I'm getting:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ w/ 2x1MB Cache (Socket AM2)

eVGA nForce 590 SLI w/ DualDDR2 800, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, 1394, Dual PCI-E x16 SLI

Crucial BallistiX 2GB PC2-6400 Dual Channel DDR2 Kit (2 x 1GB)

Thermaltake VA8000BWS Armor Super Tower, Black Steel

Seagate 320GB Barracuda 7200.10 SATA II w/ NCQ, 16MB Cache

LG Super Multi DVD Writer 18x18x10 DVD +/-RW Dual-Layer, SATA w/ Lightscribe, Black (OEM)

700W SLI supported power supply, high end store brand that CG is going to get for me using his employee discount

And the Geforce 8800 GTS that I've already got.

At a later date I'll be getting a second one of those, and some more RAM, and a Soundblaster extremegamer, as the onboard card will suffice until my next paycheque.

I'm also going to get a Samsung 22" LCD monitor to replace my 19" CRT.
So, thoughts? Opinions? Diving on the grenade to save my butt? :D

[Broomjockey]

I actually ordered all my upgrade parts from NCIX and their computer builder is a pretty nice setup. The only catch I've found is that they only ship out their stuff on Friday, so doing a weekend setup doesn't happen. Apart from that, they're a very good company.

Okay, that's good to know. Thanks :)

Looks like there isn't much of a price difference, so for future, anything I need, but not right away, I'll probably use NCIX, as getting down to Memory Express is turning out to be a bit of a pain. Just...probable shipping costs on a case make me queasy :o

[JustADude]

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ w/ 2x1MB Cache (Socket AM2)

The Core-2-Duo platform blows the Athlon 64 X2 out of the water. As much as I'm a fan of AMD over Intel it's a sad fact that they C2D is the best chip out there at the moment. I really would stick with Intel if you don't want to wait until the AMD Phenom is released.

The rest of it looks good, though.

[Broomjockey]

darn it. I was really liking the price difference. :(

[JustADude]

darn it. I was really liking the price difference. :(

That price difference (~$25 on Newegg) will, by itself, be a difference of 5-15 frames-per-sec on your games with an otherwise identical system, BroomJockey. Here's a LINK (http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=921&model2=873&chart=420) to a Tom's Hardware chart for all CPU Comparisons. There's not a single game benchmark listing the X2 6000+ beats the Core2 E6750 2.66GHZ (Which has a 4MB-shared L2, or the equivalent of 2x2MB L2).


EDIT: Oh, and on top of that, the MoBo and Memory he picked for you uses a MUCH slower bus-speed than the stuff I recommended. That'll cost you another chunk of FPS, and replacing your MoBo is going to be the single most difficult part to replace later, as well as your weakest link out of the box. Best to get that strong so you can upgrade further later without worrying about it.

[Geek King]

EDIT: Oh, and on top of that, the MoBo and Memory he picked for you uses a MUCH slower bus-speed than the stuff I recommended. That'll cost you another chunk of FPS, and replacing your MoBo is going to be the single most difficult part to replace later, as well as your weakest link out of the box. Best to get that strong so you can upgrade further later without worrying about it.

Ditto this sentiment. Get the best motherboard your budget will handle. I usually just put together a whole new computer when the motherboard won't handle needed (okay, okay, wanted :p ) upgrades.

[lordlundar]

Just...probable shipping costs on a case make me queasy :o

Shipping prices are based on price of the products and how you want them shipped. They use a few couriers and Canada post. Also insurance and extra packaging they bill extra for, but all of these are at the time of order. There's no courier coming up and saying you owe extra on an order. Just sign and it's yours.

As well, if budget is high, go with the Core-2, simply for the threading tech, which allows the cores to be linked for tasks and gives an insane boost. AMD does not have this tech with their current line of processors. Most new games are doing a similar approach in game now, so while you do take a performance hit, it's not a huge one and if your budget is tight, the AMD is a good choice.

[NightAngel]

I'd love to have a Dual Core Processor for mine. That's about the only thing that would make it better... okay, lie, there is ONE other thing that could make it better.

I am an NVidia fan and I'm glad that you have an NVidia card. When I bought my new gaming 'puter I wound up with an ATI Radeon. It SUCKS! I hate it! Never, ever get one. :(

*Case-mod: Not actually a high-impact item, but if you go for a case with a side-window you can get LED-lit fans and LED clusters to make the inside glow, with a total price difference of less than a stick of RAM. Looks particularly snazzy when combined with properly color-coordinated sheathed round cables.

I have one of the AlienWare blue glow cases. Now, it does look nifty, I'll admit it. I don't highly recommend it if, like me, your case sits on top of the desk. The light shines in your eyes and gets really annoying. If you're prone to headaches- not good.
I've turned it sideways so the window is facing the wall.... which makes the wall lit up and it's a lovely night light.
:lol:

[Broomjockey]

But is that motherboard capable of SLI? And if so, will I be able to get the 16x that I can get out of the evga mobo?

Will the board I'm getting be able to take the Phenom chip when it comes out?
Is there a better mobo then the one I'm looking at that will take the Phenom, and does SLI?

Also, the price difference in the RAM is fairly staggering (if I looked right, it's about $100, no, don't quote newegg. Can't use it.), is the increase in performance going to be worth that?

[Broomjockey]

I am an NVidia fan and I'm glad that you have an NVidia card. When I bought my new gaming 'puter I wound up with an ATI Radeon. It SUCKS! I hate it! Never, ever get one. :(

Frankly, my current system has an ATI, and the problems I've had with it lately have seriously turned me off it. Trying to update the drivers almost borked my whole system, and I had to disable the card and revert to the old drivers to even begin to fix it.

[NightAngel]

Yep, my hubby's 'puter, which used to be mine, has an NVidia FX5500 (old) and it's astoundingly better than my ATI Radeon 99,000 or whatever it is. :rolleyes:

[Broomjockey]

Failing that ASUS board being able to do SLI, is there one with the higher bus speed that will do SLI at 8 or 16x? I'm starting to pick up parts, and hope to get the last stuff on Wednesday, and assemble it then.

(The box for that tower is HUGE! :D)

[Broomjockey]

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=10072&SID=

Okay, this is the board I'm looking at now, but all the numbers are throwing me off. Will this run the RAM you were showing me, JustADude? I know it will run the Intel, as I'm convinced to go with that instead, and this board has the SLI I'm hoping for, but I can't tell if it will run the RAM at the optimum speed.

I'm picking up the board, chip, and RAM on Wednesday, hopefully. If anyone wants I can probably manage pics of it being all spiffy. :D *is excited*
Quick question:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=10659&SID=

http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=9637&SID=
Okay, the second one's quad core, but it's 2.4GHz instead of 3.0GHz. But they're the same price. Is the quad core better, worse, or actually the same as? I've got some extra money kicking around which I'm going to put into the processor, and these are pretty much at the limit of what I'm willing to spend, so if there's a difference between them... :shrug: I dunno.

[JustADude]

Okay, this is the board I'm looking at now, but all the numbers are throwing me off. Will this run the RAM you were showing me, JustADude?

Actually, no, it won't. The board lists its memory compatability as DDR2 533/667/800/1200 Which means you need DDR2 533, DDR2 667, DDR2 800, or DDR2 1200 type memory, while the MoBo and RAM I recommended were DDR2 1066 at the high-end. Since you want a gaming rig, you'll need more than DDR2 800, and the 1200s and over are all having massive problems with burnouts.


As for the processor, It's up to you. The Quad-Core will be more responsive, and you'll have less of a draw from your background apps, but most games these days don't even code for dual-core, let alone quad. One's more speed while the other is more future-proofed.

[symposes]

my system crapped out on me recently, the motherboard went bad, and was eating processors. *that was no fun to troubleshoot, since i had AMD Sempron, and i was not about to jump through hoops to replace this old stuff.*

now im using an AMD x2 3600 (2 2g cores) Considering how little i play computer games, and the fact that i dont mind turning them down alittle if i have too, its not a big deal.
I just hope Hellgate london and Crysis dont require dx10, as my video card doesnt support that.

[lordlundar]

As for the processor, It's up to you. The Quad-Core will be more responsive, and you'll have less of a draw from your background apps, but most games these days don't even code for dual-core, let alone quad. One's more speed while the other is more future-proofed.

True, but the processors can be threaded as well, for a nice speed boost. Overall though, they come out even.

[Broomjockey]

Actually, no, it won't. The board lists its memory compatability as DDR2 533/667/800/1200 Which means you need DDR2 533, DDR2 667, DDR2 800, or DDR2 1200 type memory, while the MoBo and RAM I recommended were DDR2 1066 at the high-end. Since you want a gaming rig, you'll need more than DDR2 800, and the 1200s and over are all having massive problems with burnouts.

Ah, because I saw the front side bus at 1066, which is what you were saying, and thought maybe... but I guess not. *goes to look around some more*

Well, I looked around, and now that I know where to look, nothing's going to give me both the 1066 RAM and the SLI at any speed. There were some with Crossfire but that's for ATI cards. So after all that, looks like I'm back at the board JustADude first suggested. Question though: the board only lists supporting DirectX 9, will it still do 10?

[JustADude]

Question though: the board only lists supporting DirectX 9, will it still do 10?

That's talking about the on-board graphics chipset, which is moot if you're plugging in that beauty of a card you have.

[Broomjockey]

That's talking about the on-board graphics chipset, which is moot if you're plugging in that beauty of a card you have.

Sweet deal!

Okay, so now I've got the parts list set, but it looks like my computer guy is gonna flake on me, so I'm probably going to be flying solo on this. If I read all the manuals carefully, is that even going to be possible? Also, besides a screwdriver, what kind of stuff am I going to need that as a newbie I wouldn't think of to assemble this? I think I remember someone mentioned thermal paste, but anything else I should consider?

Edit: Is this (http://www.memoryexpress.com/index.php?PageTag=&page=file&memx_menu=EmbedProductDetail.php&DisplayProductID=8187&SID=236125) a decent power supply? As the deal I was getting on the other is now shot that I'm on my own.

[JustADude]

Okay, to cover your questions in order, BroomJockey:

1) It'll go just fine as long as you read the manuals and pay attention to what you're plugging in where. As long as you don't try to force something where it's not meant to go, or something else equally hair-brained, you shouldn't be able to do anything that will actually damage the components.

2) Since the Armor series cases are designed with thumb-screws and other such parts all you need for actual tools is a DEMAGNETIZED screwdriver to fasten the motherboard into place.

3) Thermal Paste is essential to a gaming rig, as it makes a huge improvement in the transfer of heat between the CPU and its cooling-block. Beyond that, investing an extra few bucks for round cables instead of flat "ribbon" cables will significantly improve your airflow through the case, letting those nice, big fans do their jobs better.

4) 700w should be plenty of power for you, and OCZ is a good, solid, reliable company. The only flaw is that the cords aren't modular, which means you'll have to make sure they're stowed neatly out of the way, again for airflow reasons. The Modular units at MemoryExpress are significantly more expensive per Watt, though, so that's a trade-off you'll have to think about. The Corsair and SilverStone offerings on that website are my suggestion if you want to go Modular, while the OCZ is just perfect if you want to stay with an Integrated PSU.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, to cover your questions in order, BroomJockey:

1) It'll go just fine as long as you read the manuals and pay attention to what you're plugging in where. As long as you don't try to force something where it's not meant to go, or something else equally hair-brained, you shouldn't be able to do anything that will actually damage the components.

2) Since the Armor series cases are designed with thumb-screws and other such parts all you need for actual tools is a DEMAGNETIZED screwdriver to fasten the motherboard into place.
<snip>
4) 700w should be plenty of power for you, and OCZ is a good, solid, reliable company. The only flaw is that the cords aren't modular, which means you'll have to make sure they're stowed neatly out of the way, again for airflow reasons.

Okay, I had the people at memory express mount the cpu (they do it for free apparently, who knew? :)), so that was the big worry out of the way. I went with the OCZ power supply, thinking "How bad could the cords be?" Hah. Note to self: It *CAN* be that bad. Stayed up WAY too late putting everything together possible, but no boot up done yet. Still, got everything plugged in well, and properly. Nothing had to be forced. Some of the chassis to mobo connections were a right pain in the arse to do, and it took more than a few minutes to figure out the spacer bolts and which screws to use, etc. No ribbon cables. Just two SATA cables, and the PSU cables are all round, as well as the chassis cables.

When I went to Memory Express, I picked up 6 parts. They were sold out of three. The monitor, which I placed on order, the mobo, but they had the same make, just the higher model where the only difference is it has crossfire *sigh*, and the processor. They were out of the duo core so I went with the quad, as it's really more an across thing than a downgrade. Bah.

The only two issues once I got all the parts are:
1. My SATA optical drive, does that plug into the slave slot? There's two masters, and two slaves, plus one on the back for raid arrays according to the manual.
2. The fracking GeForce card doesn't fit because of the way the screwless setup is done. It takes up two slots, but there's a thing between the clips blocking the card from seating properly. I can either get it lined up in the slot, or I can line it up with the hole in the tower, but not both. I figure I can either saw the bit between the clamps off so the card can fit, or I can turn the screwhole into a notch on the card's clamping bit. Before trying either of those, I'm going to take another look around the case to see if there's something I can slide out, and a loot at the card if I can finagle it some how. Step after that is trying tech support for the card and the chassis. Then we consider cutting. :cry:

[Shabo]

Back to the mobo to chassis connections:

the labels on those little jumpers should all be facing in to the center of the pins, IE the top row should have the label facing down, and the bottom row should have the labels facing up. If it's not done that way, the computer won't turn on.

Also, glad to hear you got your cpu mounted for free. It's not difficult to do, but it's a bit of a pain if you don't know how to spread the thermal paste.

Good luck with the rest of it!

[Broomjockey]

Back to the mobo to chassis connections:

the labels on those little jumpers should all be facing in to the center of the pins, IE the top row should have the label facing down, and the bottom row should have the labels facing up. If it's not done that way, the computer won't turn on.


...
Crap. Well, they're halfway right then. All facing "up." Good thing that a) I have to go back into the case anyway (g/c plus tidying wires), and b) haven't tried to turn it on :lol:

[Shabo]

...
Crap. Well, they're halfway right then. All facing "up." Good thing that a) I have to go back into the case anyway (g/c plus tidying wires), and b) haven't tried to turn it on :lol:

Even if you had, you wouldn't have hurt anything. You just wouldn't have had anything happen, either. Glad I could help you before you started pulling your hair out trying to figure out what was wrong... (because that was me with my first computer building experience...)

[JustADude]

Those wires being upside down are exactly what I meant by "things that won't damage your components". Thought it'd be more of a learning experience for you to discover it yourself though. :p

Sorry. :blink:

As for the case, the Armor case was designed with high end stuff like this in mind, so there should definitely be some way to remove that obstruction. If you can snap a closeup pic of the area in question I'll try to help figure it out.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, here's a pic of the spot on the tower, and of the card, and I tried to circle where the issue resides.

[lordlundar]

For the case to mobo connectors, check the manual on both the mobo and the case. The case manual will tell you which wires are the ground, and the mobo manual tells you where they go.

If your mobo has a connector bracket (looks like a really large jumper with pins on one end, and a bunch of text on it) use that. It works like a wiring harness for a car stereo. It allows you to make the connections with space to work with, then you just match up the holes (they will only match up one way) and slide it in. I hooked up my case to the board with this, and that has power switch and lights, HDD activity light, and reset.

Hooking them up the wrong way may damage the chassis connections, like the LEDS for lights, as they are designed to allow power through one way only, but it usually requires a lot more power than what those have going through. As such they usually won't complete the circuit if it's the wrong way.

Now for your latest. SATA does not do master and slave, as with Parallel, they connect two to a ribbon, while SATA devices are one per connection. What optical drive are you planning on plugging in? Odds are, you have a Parallel drive, which if you are hooking one up, set it to master right now. A later one you can set to slave. If you're connecting a HDD to the ribbon, set the Optical to slave.

Now the blockage. You might be able to bend it slightly to fit, but that can cause more headaches than is necessary. Turning the screw hole to a slot would be the best bet, as it's the easiest to do and is the safest option.

[Broomjockey]

Now for your latest. SATA does not do master and slave, as with Parallel, they connect two to a ribbon, while SATA devices are one per connection. What optical drive are you planning on plugging in? Odds are, you have a Parallel drive, which if you are hooking one up, set it to master right now. A later one you can set to slave. If you're connecting a HDD to the ribbon, set the Optical to slave.

Now the blockage. You might be able to bend it slightly to fit, but that can cause more headaches than is necessary. Turning the screw hole to a slot would be the best bet, as it's the easiest to do and is the safest option.

Yeah, I'm currently planning on turning the hole to a slot, if I can get my hands on some tin snips (which I'm told are the best choice for this kind of thing).

As for the SATA bit, my mobo manual says that there's four connection points, all grouped together, two are red, and listed as master, two are black, listed as slave (according to the manual). I'm pretty sure that both my HD and the DVD/Lightscribe drives are SATA, as that's what I asked for, and the cable fit into both, and the power supply cables that fit were labeled SATA, unless Parallel is a type of SATA connection, and I'm misunderstanding?

And there's no ribbon, just a simple, single, red (not sure if colour's important) cable running from each device to a seperate connection point on the board.

[JustADude]

Okay, I looked at the pictures and I'm pretty sure you can just pop the thumb-clip mounting plate off and take care of it the normal way. If you feel like Frankensteining your case, though, it'd be perfectly safe to pop the plastic bracket off and cut or file away the offending portion.

Either way is safe, it just all depends on how you want to handle it.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, I looked at the pictures and I'm pretty sure you can just pop the thumb-clip mounting plate off and take care of it the normal way. If you feel like Frankensteining your case, though, it'd be perfectly safe to pop the plastic bracket off and cut or file away the offending portion.

Either way is safe, it just all depends on how you want to handle it.

I like the ease of the screwless system, as for most operations that I'd have to perform more often (swapping video cards, moving PCI cards in slots, opening the case, etc.) I don't need any tools, so I frankensteined it a bit. Not terribly pretty atm, but it WORKS! aHA!

And I spent the time installing the OS, finding the drivers for everything, yadda yadda yadda. And now my system's up and running and letting me finally play my beautiful BioShock. But...

And there's always a but,

there's three issues.

1. It's not recognizing my wireless keyboard anymore, even though it did the first time I started the OS, so I have to use an old keyboard I had lying around. It is recognizing my mouse on a basic level, even though it uses the same wireless receiver.

2. It's telling me I have a floppy drive. I didn't even buy one, let alone install one.

3. If I turn my computer off, I have to open it up, unplug it, pop the battery off the mobo, switch the jumper, replace the battery and jumper, plug it in, and change the BIOS settings back to plugnplay. Every time, so far. And it was after the first time that I had to do that that the keyboard stopped working.

I've a funny feeling this is all related. And actually, if it was, that'd probably make it easier to fix. Anyway, any suggestions?

[lordlundar]

As for the SATA bit, my mobo manual says that there's four connection points, all grouped together, two are red, and listed as master, two are black, listed as slave (according to the manual).

Ah, so their defining them based on speed then. The "masters" have a higher allowable throughput.

It doesn't really matter the order, but plugging the optical into the "master" is a waste, as the drive will be the bottleneck, and the HDD(s) into the "slave" will simply slow the system down.

2. It's telling me I have a floppy drive. I didn't even buy one, let alone install one.

It's because you have a floppy controller on the board. Unlike an optical or hard drive, which needs it plugged in and powerd to be recognized, as long as you have the controller, it will show up. (please don't ask how I know this.:D) Ignore it. It's not doing anything.

The wireless going on the blink is connected to the reset procedure you're doing, as the USB recognition is tied to the CMOS (the battery and jumper, which you're resetting) What's causing you to have to reset is unknown to me. At what point in the bootup is the problem starting where you have to do the reset?

[Broomjockey]

What's causing you to have to reset is unknown to me. At what point in the bootup is the problem starting where you have to do the reset?

I push the power button, and then... nothing. No beeps, nothing on the monitor, nothing.

And so I shouldn't be worried about the floppy drive appearing, or that on the reset, it'll put it first on the list of boot devices? It just imagines I have one? That. Is. Weird. :shrug: One problem off the list, one related to the other. Now, if we can just solve the boot issue, I'm solid :D

[lordlundar]

try holding the power button down for a couple of seconds. It's what I need to do for my machine. If not, the I'm afraid I have no clue.:o

[Broomjockey]

try holding the power button down for a couple of seconds. It's what I need to do for my machine. If not, the I'm afraid I have no clue.:o

ooo, good idea. My mom's old computer was like that. :facepalm: That's a lot easier than another suggestion I was given of updating the bios.

[Broomjockey]

D'oh! Okay, holding the power button works. However, I downloaded and installed some windows updates, and now it's fubar'ed my computer. Takes forever for windows to load and the onboard ethernet adapter is somehow disabled or something. So I'm going to try uninstalling those updates when I get some time.

[lordlundar]

Hmm, check to see how many startup programs you have installed and see if you can take a couple off. If you have too many things coming up at startup, it bogs down the entire system. And try to reinstall the ethernet adapter driver software. Lately, I've been finding Nvidia ethernet boards built in that when people update or modify their video drivers, they goof these up as well. (ahem, guilty:o)

[Broomjockey]

Hmm, check to see how many startup programs you have installed and see if you can take a couple off. If you have too many things coming up at startup, it bogs down the entire system. And try to reinstall the ethernet adapter driver software. Lately, I've been finding Nvidia ethernet boards built in that when people update or modify their video drivers, they goof these up as well. (ahem, guilty:o)

I couldn't reinstall the drivers, so I tried reformatting and reinstalling (:cry: Goodbye BioShock progress), and now, when ever it tries to install/reinstall the original, off the disk drivers using its own install utility, and it gets to the point that it needs to restart the computer, it just hangs on the shut down screen. I left it for about 20 minutes the first time, and now I'm just leaving it until I get back home on my lunch break, and hoping that gives it enough time to sort out its issues.

Edit: Okay, it is most definitely the ethernet driver that's doing it. I installed the other three mobo drivers no problems, but trying to do anything with that just hangs the whole system. I'm going to try burning the updated one onto a cd and see what I can do that way.

[Shabo]

Sometimes the windows updates for the hardware breaks the drivers. I do not update any of my drivers through windows, especially not the vid card driver. There is also a problem where svchost update breaks the computer. Fix is here (http://swigartconsulting.blogs.com/tech_blender/2006/07/windows_update_.html). That problem can also cause the computer to boot really slow and to hang during shutdown.

Good luck with that.

[MadMike]

Sometimes the windows updates for the hardware breaks the drivers. I do not update any of my drivers through windows, especially not the vid card driver.

I'll second that. I screwed up my video drivers that way a few years back, and it made my games run like shit. Had to reinstall them from the manufacturer's site.

Then just a few weeks ago, I did it again, although it wasn't the video drivers. I should have known better, and I did it anyway. Next thing I know, I have no sound or internet. Reinstalling the drivers didn't work, and trying to delete them gave me an error message. Luckily, system restore did the trick.

[Broomjockey]

Okay, I would like to take this opportunity to officially thank everyone for their wonderful help in getting this bastage of a machine off the ground and operating. It appears everything's finally going well.

I have no clue what the problem was, and probably never will, because I gave up, took it to the shop, and when they booted it up on the bench, everything worked perfectly. So, I'm now reinstalling the drivers, and then all my fun little things, and am not letting windows update pick ANYTHING to install. :D

YAY! Thank you ALL!!! :) *runs off to play on his new toy*