More tech/electronics questions...

[FuzzyKitten99]

Ok, here goes.

DH & I are very 'awed' by the brilliance and the sharpness of the picture that HDTV's get. We definitely want to get one within the next 12-18 months. Our TV works just fine and has never had an issue. It is a 50" projection screen, but it is also 15 years old. So while it works like new now, it won't likely stay that way forever.

Anyhow, since we don't have cable beyond the basic $12/month for reception purposes, the picture quality won't really be much of an improvement since the input feed for cable would not be HD.

But we do watch lots of DVD's. We currently have a 400-disc DVD player that we bought 2 years ago. We want to make sure that the picture sharpness and brilliance of colors is what the HDTV should put out, even though our DVD player (seen here: http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-faq.pl?mdl=DVPCX985V# ) is not HD.

What kind of picture quality can we expect from this combination?

[Pedersen]

Boy, have you ever asked a loaded question. You will get opinions on every side, contradicting each other through and through.

For instance, I will tell you now that the most beautiful picture in the electronics store where I work is, hands down, the Sharp Aquos. Clear, vibrant colors, and just a pleasure to watch. I'm sure that some one else will state that the Aquos is, at best, a mid-line product, and something else is better. In the end, there is only one opinion that matters, and that is yours.

As such, I will tell you a method for arriving at the most informed opinion for you, and hope you will take this advice to heart.

Get a highly portable DVD player with the best outputs you can get. Chances are good this will be component video, though you might find one that has HDMI. This player also needs to be able to connect to your current setup. Get a particular DVD that has a memorable scene for you, and you can easily locate the scene.

Watch that scene using your current TV and the portable DVD player. Watch it many many times. You should be able to tell where you are in the scene almost to the frame. You need to know this scene better than you know your friends.

Once you have done this, take the DVD player, cables, and DVD to a store. Express your interest in buying a high def tv. When the salesman starts in on his sale, tell him you need to see the picture quality for yourself, and have brought along a DVD player and DVD to watch. It needs to be hooked up, so you can see it. If the salesman balks, leave, and do not look back. Find another store, and explain. A good company will understand your goals, and help you get your equipment connected.

Compare what you see in the store with your own memories of the scene in question. You know how it's looked in the past, and now you're seeing what this new TV can do with it.

The reason for the portable DVD player is that every player is slightly different. As a result, it decodes the movie slightly differently, which can result in seeing a slightly different picture. By using the same DVD player, the same DVD, and the same cables, you are reducing your variation down to being just the TV. This helps you to judge the true quality of the TV all on its own, without the interference of too much else.

Finally, if you're balking at the price of buying a portable DVD player, consider this: If you are buying a high def TV, and buying a large screen, the TV is likely to be well over $1000 US. That portable DVD player is likely under $200. Probably less then $100. And will help you enjoy your more than $1000 investment even more.

All of that having been said, some thing you can do to help narrow your search: look for the highest resolution you can get. Currently, this is 1080p. And no, 1080i is not the same. Due to the way the screen is drawn, 1080i is, effectively, 1920x540, while 1080p is 1920x1080. It does matter.

Get a high contrast ratio. It helps to make colors more distinguishable. 10,000:1 is very doable right now, if not downright common.

Get the lowest numbered response rate you can find. 4ms is better than 8ms. And 3ms is better than 4ms.

Find the return rate for the brand in question. If a brand is returned often for repairs, it's generally a lesser quality than one which is returned rarely. This does not prevent you buying a lemon for your particular tv, but it does help.

In the end, your experience with the TV will be judged by you, and can only be judged by you. Shop carefully. And don't rely too much on message boards to give you absolutes. Even my guidelines here should not be taken as absolutes. For instance, I'm not sure if the contrast ratio and response rate metrics applies to plasma tvs. I know they do for LCD tvs, though.

I hope this gives you some helpful hints, at least.

[Mr. Rager!]

FuzzyKitten, the HDTVs are awesome for sure. But, it's pretty pointless to get an HDTV if you're not going to get an HD signal going to it. I know you watch a lot of movies, but in order to really take advantage of the HD quality, you would have to switch all your DVDs over to HD-DVD. So really right now, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Just getting a plasma or LCD will be a vast improvement over the 15 year old rear-projection tv you have.

[gbm85]

Pedersen, your post was very informative, but I think you answered a question she didn't actually ask.

I think FuzzyKitten is wondering how the picture quality will be on an HDTV using her current DVD player.

The answer is, it will look the same as it does now. The quality of the new TV will be better than your current one, but the actual picture being sent to the TV will be exactly the same.

If your DVD player does up-scaling (which it probably doesn't), you will get a slightly better picture, but not much.

In order to see any real difference, you will need to invest in a high-definition DVD player, which currently can either come in HD-DVD or Bluray flavors. They are not compatible, so the best thing to do is to gauge which format carries the most movies you want to see. There are hybrid players (play both HD-DVD and Bluray), but I don't know if they have made it to market yet, and if they have I imagine the cost is pretty high.

And of course, you'll have to buy high-def DVDs to play on it. Playing regular DVDs will not result in any rise in quality.

[Broomjockey]

There are hybrid players (play both HD-DVD and Bluray), but I don't know if they have made it to market yet, and if they have I imagine the cost is pretty high.

And of course, you'll have to buy high-def DVDs to play on it. Playing regular DVDs will not result in any rise in quality.

This (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2079911,00.asp) was supposed to be out in January, so I'm sure it's out by now, and others as well.
Also, depending on the current player and TV, upgrading them might make a perceptible difference in the quality of regular DVDs just because the TV has a better picture and such, but generally, yeah. Not going to be enough to notice unless the TV's on it's last legs and the player's got archaic connections *looks at his DVD player* :lol:

[Pedersen]

Pedersen, your post was very informative, but I think you answered a question she didn't actually ask.

I think FuzzyKitten is wondering how the picture quality will be on an HDTV using her current DVD player.

The answer is, it will look the same as it does now. The quality of the new TV will be better than your current one, but the actual picture being sent to the TV will be exactly the same.

Actually, I have to disagree. If the TV is operating in 1080p mode, then upscaling will have to be done by the TV. Even if it is not operating in 1080p, but instead is only running at the DVD native resolution, there is still a noticeable improvement in picture quality depending on the connections being used.

For instance, a 15 year old tv would have been made in 1992. That means it likely does not have component video in, instead having composite and cable inputs. This means it's also likely operating at a paltry NTSC signal, which is (approximately) 360x240.

DVDs are recorded at 720x480. This means that 3/4 of the information that is stored on the DVD will be thrown away by the tv. As such, connecting the exact same DVD player to a new TV, using one of the newer connections (including component, S-Video, or HDMI) will result in more picture being seen than before.

Unless the 15 year old TV has the same inputs as the new TV, it will likely look very different.

[Alfie]

This thread just proves how tech-savy I am... I didn't even know that there are dvd players that hold 400 dvds in them until now. But wow, what an invention! I don't own any dvds, so it would probably be pointless for me though :p

[Mr. Rager!]

Your picture quality will improve a lot. However, you won't get a true HD until you get an HD signal going to it. Your tv an improve the quality only so much... it cannot make a non HD signal HD. But hey, a lot of newer DVDs are being produced in HD, and you can always get an HD player down the road. But if you want to the make the change, I'd get the HD player at the same time as your HD TV.

[FuzzyKitten99]

Your picture quality will improve a lot. However, you won't get a true HD until you get an HD signal going to it. Your tv an improve the quality only so much... it cannot make a non HD signal HD. But hey, a lot of newer DVDs are being produced in HD, and you can always get an HD player down the road. But if you want to the make the change, I'd get the HD player at the same time as your HD TV.

So all in all, the picture quality will improve enough to be worth buying one, even if we don't get an HD/BlueRay DVD player? One of the main reasons for buying the DVD player that we did was so our DVD's are protected from scratches and it is really nice to be able to change to any movie in our collection without getting up to change the disc. It works really nice with the kids' movies.

As far as the question about the TV's ports/connections, here's a pic of our TV. There are the 3 'video' ports on the front, and there are the standard connections on the back. Even though the TV is pretty old by today's standards, my grandparents paid top dollar for this thing when they bought it brand new. I think it was the best one available at that time. They left it here for us when we bought their house when they retired and moved and bought all new stuff.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/FuzzyKitten1999/PA080076.jpg

[Mr. Rager!]

So all in all, the picture quality will improve enough to be worth buying one, even if we don't get an HD/BlueRay DVD player?


Yeah, you'll notice a definite improvement. But it won't be what you saw on the showroom floor.

Just make sure you have ATSC tuner, along with HDMI and DVI ports.

Still, you'll want to consider buying an HD-DVD player, Bluray player or a combination of the both sometime down the road. Why spend a lot of money on a great tv if you're only going to have a good signal go through it?

[FuzzyKitten99]

Still, you'll want to consider buying an HD-DVD player, Bluray player or a combination of the both sometime down the road. Why spend a lot of money on a great tv if you're only going to have a good signal go through it?

Unless they make those in the 400+ disc capacity under $500, that isn't gonna happen any time soon. Especially since we would have to start all over again with our movies, and really, that just doesn't sound like something we really want to do within the next 5 years.

As long as the picture improvement is noticeable and marginally better than what what we get now, we won't worry about getting a new player for a few years- if ever.

[Mr. Rager!]

As long as the picture improvement is noticeable and marginally better than what what we get now, we won't worry about getting a new player for a few years- if ever.

Unfortunantly, soon HD and/or Bluray will probably be standard. (Just like DVD has become the standards) So that if ever statement probably will not hold up.

[FuzzyKitten99]

Unfortunantly, soon HD and/or Bluray will probably be standard. (Just like DVD has become the standards) So that if ever statement probably will not hold up.

What financial sense does that make?

We're not about to spend several hundred dollars on a 1-disc DVD player that won't play our current DVD's that we do own, and then another several hundred, if not a thousand, repurchasing all the DVD's that we have now, when our current player holds all 300 of our movies, plus more, is paid for, and works prefectly fine.

Really, if the quality of the picture of an HDTV would not be any different or at least not noticeably better, then we would wait until our current TV died beyond repair first before buying a new TV. But from what you have said, we may get a new one sooner, likely sometime next summer, if finances hold well. Our old one would probably go downstairs in our den. But our DVD player that we currently have along with out 300 movies that has taken us about 6 years to build is here to stay for a long time.

HD/BlueRay may not be so much a future standard as another option/version to choose from. DVD's replaced VHS because VHS is a completely different format and not as versatile. HD/Blueray is the exact same format as a standard DVD, just optically better. I doubt the standard DVD's are going to go away as fast as VHS.

[Banrion]

HD/BlueRay may not be so much a future standard as another option/version to choose from. DVD's replaced VHS because VHS is a completely different format and not as versatile. HD/Blueray is the exact same format as a standard DVD, just optically better. I doubt the standard DVD's are going to go away as fast as VHS.

You never know. An HD-DVD can hold 4 times as much information on a single disk than a regular DVD. So you could actually fit any of the LOTR movies and bonus features on a single disk. Blu-Ray is even better, holding 10x the data of a standard DVD. So not only can you get better quality, it could represent a significant decline in production costs for movie companies.

[Mr. Rager!]

We're not about to spend several hundred dollars on a 1-disc DVD player that won't play our current DVD's that we do own, and then another several hundred, if not a thousand, repurchasing all the DVD's that we have now, when our current player holds all 300 of our movies, plus more, is paid for, and works prefectly fine.


HD-DVD players and Bluray players are backwards compatible.

And no, being on a disc won't stop regular DVD from becoming outdated. And like I said, while no one particularily wants to spend a ton of money to keep up at times, sometimes you're forced. Regular DVD format will not be sticking around, and you will soon HAVE to upgrade.

Regular formatted DVD sales already have one foot in the grave. Face it, technology is advancing and you can't stop it.

[FuzzyKitten99]

HD-DVD players and Bluray players are backwards compatible.

And no, being on a disc won't stop regular DVD from becoming outdated. And like I said, while no one particularily wants to spend a ton of money to keep up at times, sometimes you're forced. Regular DVD format will not be sticking around, and you will soon HAVE to upgrade.

Regular formatted DVD sales already have one foot in the grave. Face it, technology is advancing and you can't stop it.

I am not saying it won't happen, I just don't think it will happen as fast as it did to VHS. Even my in-laws, who are always getting the latest stuff, aren't going to upgrade unless forced, because they have over 700 DVD's (many being multi-disc sets though).

We aren't going to upgrade unless forced to either because of the amount of money already invested into what we have already. Likely when they come out with a reliable 400+ player under $500, which won't be for a few years at least.

[Pedersen]

HD-DVD players and Bluray players are backwards compatible.

Well, being half right is better than all wrong. HD-DVD is 100% backwards compatible. Bluray requires extra hardware which not all players include. To quote Wikipedia ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc):
Compatibility

While it is not compulsory for manufacturers; the Blu-ray Disc Association recommends that Blu-ray Disc drives should be capable of reading standard DVDs for backward compatibility. For instance, Samsung's first Blu-ray Disc drive can read CDs, regular DVDs, and Blu-ray Discs. All other Blu-ray Disc players released support DVD playback as well, however not all support CD playback. This includes Sony, Panasonic, Philips, LG, Pioneer and PC-based players from Alienware, Sony, and Dell. LG has also produced a player that is capable of playing both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats.

The fact that they do support it does not mean they always will, nor does it mean that a new player produced tomorrow will be able to play back DVDs. HD-DVD uses a refinement of existing technology. Bluray is a completely different technology. It does not support it natively.

And no, being on a disc won't stop regular DVD from becoming outdated. And like I said, while no one particularily wants to spend a ton of money to keep up at times, sometimes you're forced. Regular DVD format will not be sticking around, and you will soon HAVE to upgrade.

Because of the format war going on, I (and lots of others) are waiting until such time as the war is over before getting a new player. Why are we going to take the risk on buying a losing format, and getting stuck with unsupported equipment? Especially since there is no appreciable difference (without also buying a new TV, new copies of the same movies, etc)?

It's easy to predict the death of regular DVD. It will happen. But not soon. Probably not for at least 10 years.

Regular formatted DVD sales already have one foot in the grave. Face it, technology is advancing and you can't stop it.

I'm not trying to stop technological advancement. But I am trying to contain how much I spend on it. That drive alone will keep regular DVDs alive for a while.

[Mr. Rager!]

Wow! Am I forcing anyone to do anything?? No.

What I'm saying is if you want the FULL VALUE of your soon to be new HD TV, maybe consider an HD source. And at some point, you WILL HAVE to upgrade.

And yes, regular format DVD sales are one foot in the grave. Where I work, I'd say as much as 20% of the people coming in are asking for HD DVDs or Bluray DVDs. That's significant.

And for my next trick, I'm going to edit wikipedia and make monkeys extinct. Because there are A LOT of Bluray players backwards compatible out of the box. And, I never said that ALL were backwards compatible.

http://www.thedigitalbeat.com/hddvd-bluray-best-players.html