What goes around...

[SnapAddict218]

comes around, and now I think we're even. I admit that I had no business doing what I did, but I didn't take anyone to bed, heck, I didn't even kiss anyone.

Ok, a few weeks ago a guy started showing intrest in me-you know, flirting, making appearances when he never did before, complimenting the mundane..I accepted it, giggling like a schoolgirl, before making it clear that I had a boyfriend and was there for unavailable for him to date. He accepted that we couldnt be any more than friends, and we continued to talk. We found out that we had a lot in common: we were both working on home rennovations, both had a passion for the arts-mainly photography, both preffered friday nights in, on the computer rather than out at the bars, we both loved to cook (and eat!) big meals from scratch. He listened when I talked, which was unbelieveably rewarding, since I have to compete with the TV at home if I want to be heard. Yes, I admit that we flirted, but seriously, flirting is a natural thing that occurs between two people. Neither of us had any intentions of taking the other to bed, though he'd mentioned several times that my BF must be a very lucky man and that he would, with out a doubt, make advances if I was available.

Naturally this gave me a boost of confidence, meaningless at the flirtation was. I was becoming invisable at home, just something that kept the floors clean and the the laundry washed. I'd drive right home from work every night, the only exeption being grocery night. I've been painfully low on cash these last months, so there were no trips to Old Navy for a new pair of pants to brighten my day, just the usual OJ and waffles. Upon arriving home I'd fix supper, do some house work, settle down for a bit of TV and then off to bed. Alone. My BF was "harvesting" every night, lurching home around 11pm (or later) smelling like a brewery and clamoring for sleep. Right. You've been in the field all night. His defence was that he needed to "unwind" after a hard day. He'd get upset when I'd remind him that he could come home and "unwind" with a home cooked meal and a doting girlfriend to cater to his every need-what good was that? All his buddies were getting together. (I might have a 3 course meal, a freshly fluffed pillow and a foot rub waiting, but who wants that when he could have a case of beer, stale deer jerky and his best buds gathered around a tractor?) Needless to say I was feeling neglected. I know he works harder and puts in longer hours during harvest than any other time of year, and I know that there is absolutly no chance of a date or anything like that. BUT he never has had any problem making time to BS with the guys.

The guy and I started texting back and forth-flirting and just saying whats up. At some point his texts turned..er...X rated. That was exciting, I do admit. We both knew it was just words, and neither of us had any intention to act on what was said. For me, this was a safe way of venting heathly emotions that until I started texing, had been repressed to the point that it hurt. He and I lived in seperate towns, so the "you should come over tonight" messages were very obviously meaningless. I was happier I noticed, because I had an outlet. I was no longer "emotionally constipated". Well long story short, for what ever reason my BF went through my phone and found the texts. He flew into a rage and left in the middle of the night, staying gone nearly all the next day. When we'd talk he'd just scream "Are you FUCKING HIM??" Ofcourse I wasn't, though I will agree the messages that he found didn't paint that picture. I finally was able to explain to him that it was JUST TEXTS. Never anything else-never intended to do anything else. He demanded to know why I would do this and what on earth it was that HE did to make me do it. Its not anything that he did, its everything that he didn't do. Naturally there was no telling him this, and I when I tried to explain that it was 'exciting' and 'fun', no more meaningful than say..watching a porno..or going to a strip club, he didnt like that one bit. He threated that if he found out that I wasn't telling him the whole truth I'd be "hitting the road". He screamed that he was utterly discusted with me, and dissapointed that I'd act like this. I spent the day in bed, my waking moments were spent sobbing for making him feel this way and beating myself up for being foolish enough to appriciate attention. Finally, after sobbing it out with my mom (who loves my BF almost as much as she loves me, and has taken his side before), I began to see that I was not a monster after all. While I shouldn't be texting another man, I am not to be blamed for wanting to feel worthy..desired. I wasn't out screwing around, and I wouldn't ever do that-this was a safe and heathly way to explore. My mom said the only thing I did wrong was not to delete the messages. As long as I know in my heart that I was not about to DO anything, the wrong I committed isn't that big. I felt better after talking to her, and I remembered all the things that I'd brought up earlier in this post. I may have acted out of turn, but I am certainly not a bad guy.

As it turned out, he spent the day driving around with his best friend, talking about what had happened. They decided that I must be telling the truth, that there isn't any way I could be cheating on him as, per my BF's words "you're always home. You always come home right after work, and you never go anywhere, unless we're together." No shit Sherlock. That's what I've been saying, and truth be told, thats part of the problem. He told me that I will never talk to this guy again, and because I do love my BF (and because it was indeed meaningless) I will comply with out protest.

Though he said we'd get through this, and that he loved me, he laid it on thick that he was dissapointed and hurt. By now I'd stopped feeling like a Class A piece of Shit. I told him that I was indeed sorry, and that I know exactly how he feels, for we've had these very same roles reversed many times in the past. He paused....Yes. He's dissapointed in my actions, and discusted that I would be a part of something like this. He's hurt that I would willfully continue with a activity that, though I insist is harmless and "fun", is seen by him as shady, discusting and potentially dangerous.

Oh my Gads! Where on earth could we have encountered this before? Really? Can anyone here think of where we might have faced this kind of problem before-except for the roles being reversed? Could those bachelor parties (http://www.customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=13792&highlight=bachelor+party)possibly be akin to the this situation? Those "harmless" parties where naked women flit around, turning tricks for the party goers? Ah yes. He remembers. I know exactly what he was feeling that day. I know all to well the sick ball of doubt that churned in his belly, and the black rage that clouded his sight when he tried to think of the events. I became angry then, and I just wanted to scream "HOW DO YOU LIKE IT?" How the hell do you like feeling this way, while having your partner insist that nothing happened, that all was innocent. Makes you kind of feel like shit doesn't it? Everytime I've been angry with him he's played it off like I'm over reacting and making a big deal out of nothing. Now you understand what it feels like bucko, and now maybe you'll remember that next time. Unlike my BF though, I will actually stick to the deal. He doesn't want me to have any contact with the guy, which I understand, and I will gladly do. I will not continue to "accidentally" find my self in the forbidden situation, as he usually does.

He's moping around the house today, complaining that he was so emotianally drained from yesterday that he feels terrible today. I'm tempted to give him my list of pointers on how to get over the queasy feeling in his gut. I'm tempted to tell him that it will fade in time, but it will always be there. There will be times that it will flare up and make you miserable. It will always nag at the back of your mind. Maybe now you'd understand why I give you an uneasy look when you come back from a night out with the guys..not willing to talk about what you did.

Maybe I'm a horrid bitch, but when I stopped feeling sad and I started thinking about the whole picture, I started to get angry. I still am, and it's not over. I will be giving him my piece later, and I will explain why I did what I did. My only hope is that we can learn from this. Maybe he will see that I really do need him to sweep me off my feet from time to time, that sweet complements aren't silly after all. I'm not exscusing myself, nor and I justifying anything. I'm simply providing a valid explanation for it. I'm not out to get him, I'm out to get us to understand each other. I'm out to make him understand that I need more than him drinking with his boyfriends all night.

Whoo. Sorry about the length, but I had to vent. Do you guys think I'm a horrible person?

[Giggle Goose]

Whoo. Sorry about the length, but I had to vent. Do you guys think I'm a horrible person?

:no: No, no, no, a million times NO!!!!! If you want to know why, you can PM me, but I'd get flamed if I gave my reasoning here.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

To be honest, Snap, your relationship with your boyfriend doesn't sound very healthy. It sounds rather one-sided. And your behavior with the other guy is an extension of that---you feel unappreciated and taken for granted, so you are grasping for attention where you can find it. You've got to figure out a way to change that, or the cycle will simply repeat itself...eventually.

[SnapAddict218]

It sounds rather one-sided. And your behavior with the other guy is an extension of that---you feel unappreciated and taken for granted, so you are grasping for attention where you can find it. You've got to figure out a way to change that, or the cycle will simply repeat itself...eventually.

Thats exactly the case. And I think that a part of his anger is because (i hope) he's beginning to realize that. Like my mom said, this will be a turning point for us, we just don't know where it's going to go. Either it will be what we need to work together, or its going to be the beginning of the end. My only hope is that he will begin to realize that- he may take me for granted, but obviously there are other people out there that don't. While I'm not going to jump into the sack with anyone else, I can't help it if kind words prick my ears. I try to ignore it, but sometimes I just can't.

All this happened yesterday, and still this morning I rose at dawn, scrubbed down the kitchen, dusted the livingroom, started laundry, did a sink full of dishes, started the coffee and had breakfast ready to go when he woke up.

You know, I should point out that I am bananas for my BF. Almost 4 years together and I'm still nuts for him. It's not that I am bored with him or that I want the affections of another-no. I'd actually preffer him in every aspect of our relationship but..you guys know what I mean?

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I think that may be part of the problem, Snap. He doesn't sound as crazy about you as you are about him. Does he ever do things like that for you in return? Does he simply expect it every morning? What would happen if you didn't do all that for him one morning?

[SnapAddict218]

Then we'd both go hungry! Ha ha. Seriously, he'll make me lunch in the morning, and even get all my things packed in the car for me if I'm running late. But I don't know. There might be more things that I myself am taking for granted. Thats my biggest fear-that people just fade into familiarity and fail to notice the things the others do for them.

He's not head over heels crazy for ANYTHING but his tractors. Don't get me wrong- I don't doubt his love at all. I know he loves me very much, so thats why I cant understand why I need to hear and see it. I feel like I'm asking too much when I ask for a romantic date or a hot kiss. Eh. He's unusual.

[monolayth]

I understand completely how you feel. My boyfriend was my best friend for years. and i tholught dating him would be wonderful. I mean he treated me like a queen before we dated. now there is no romance and i am so feeling taken advantage of. it hasent even been a year. and when i tell him he isent romantic enough he dosent get it. it sucks.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

hehehe.

No sweetie, he's not unusual. Many guys do exactly what he's doing, and many girls feel forgotten by them. Something that most men learn as adults(eventually...) is that women need that interaction. We need to have meaningful emotional interactions with them. The emotional aspect of a relationship tends to be a lot more important to a woman than a man; it's one of parts of a relationship that men often find they need to actively work at. A relationship takes work, from both parties. It takes a lot of compromise. Not that females don't have our own blind spots when it comes to relationships, but that's a topic for another day.

You need to find a way to make him understand that you need those kinds of things in your relationship, and that doing those kinds of things with you on a regular basis will help him hold up his end of the relationship. As to how to do that in a threatening manner, :shrug: I don't know. I hope my rambling has helped.

[SnapAddict218]

I've tried. The bottom line is, romance and meaningful interactions, passion and soforth are not at all important to him. If something doesnt interest him, he's not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. Until now he's been clueless, either by default or by choice, ignoring the fact that I have emotional needs that are going unfufilled. It's never been a problem to him before because he's never paid attention to it, he's always filled his thoughts with his own wants and needs. He wasnt always like this though, but the more I'd try to tell him how I felt, the more he'd refuse to listen. Like I said I hope this might have opened his eyes.

I'm not as content to sit at home and pine for his return as he previously thought.

[Jester]

Do you guys think I'm a horrible person?

There is a horrible person here, in my opinion, but it isn't you. It's him. I said something along the same lines when the whole bachelor party thing came up, I think, and I'll repeat it: your boyfriend sounds to me like he is pretty much an ass.

You know, I should point out that I am bananas for my BF. Almost 4 years together and I'm still nuts for him.

Ah, the second part of Jester's Universal Law of the Sexes: All women are insane. Thank you for illustrating that. :lol:

All joking aside (and please take the above as playful ribbing, not a serious insult), I often wonder why women stay with guys that they describe as basically ignoring them, applying double standards, or ordering them around. I don't get it, and frankly, I don't think I ever will.

Until now he's been clueless, either by default or by choice, ignoring the fact that I have emotional needs that are going unfufilled.

..he's always filled his thoughts with his own wants and needs.

...but the more I'd try to tell him how I felt, the more he'd refuse to listen.

And there we have the first part of Jester's Universal Law of the Sexes: All men are stupid.

Your boyfriend, by your own description of him, puts himself first, foremost, and alone on his list of priorities. He ignores you like you are part of the furniture, does whatever he wants, doesn't listen to you, berates you for actually doing something he doesn't approve of, and is downright hypocritical (he reacts one way when it's him, but another way when it's you).

Read what you yourself wrote about the guy. Now, remove yourself from the situation mentally, and read it again, pretending it's someone else talking about their boyfriend. Doesn't sound like such a great guy, does he? I don't doubt that he has his qualities and his positives, but frankly, it doesn't sound like they make up for all the rest of it.

Before anyone gets upset at me, please remember that I am merely reacting to SA's own description of her boyfriend. I don't know the guy and can't judge him or his actions on anything other than SA's descriptions. So please, keep the hate mail civil if you would. :D

I have dealt with personal issues myself where, because I was directly involved in the situation, I could not see clearly what was going on. Sometimes it takes a while to be able to see the reality of your own situation, and SA, to me it sounds like the reality is that your boyfriend is a hypocritical, selfish, self-involved, possessive heel. While I CAN see why he might draw the conclusions he initially drew when coming upon the text messages, I have to question his reaction as being a bit over the top, and I have to wonder if he has a guilty conscience about something he himself has been doing. I also have to wonder what the hell he is doing poking around in your phone's text messages. Yeah, I can understand he may have needed a phone, but with most cells, it takes an active effort to actually access the texts.

Just something to think about. I hope you are not offended by my comments, but because you seem like a sweet person, and because I am worried that you may be blinded as I myself have been in the past, I just could not keep silent. I DO hope it all works out for you, either with him if I am wrong about him, or without him if I am not. Best of luck to you, whatever you end up doing. :D

[ArenaBoy]

Do you guys think I'm a horrible person?

Nope. Not at all. I agree with Jester that he sounds like an ass but neither he nor I don't know him. Will he be able to see your side of things? Maybe. All men are stupid (Even I'm stupid at times). It's normal to crave attention when one doesn't get it. Guys will do it and girls will do it when they feel neglected. Your boyfriend may or may not see the point. I wish you luck though.

[SnapAddict218]

Jester, as always, I love you. I really do. Like the bachelor party thread, I was hoping you'd chime in. Ok. Where to start. The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that his reaction was over the top because he felt threatened. For the first time in our relationship he felt threatened by something I did. I think he flipped out because he might be starting to realize that although I've stopped trying to discuss the issue of our piss poor intimate relationship and though I've stopped begging him for romance and passion, I've not stopped needing it.

Oh and Jester, He didn't need a phone. He waited until Iwent to bed, picked up my phone and searched the messages. Now I know if I hadn't had the messages on the phone, there wouldn't have been the fight, but the more I think about it, the more I want to say to him how dare you invade my privacy? What gives you the fucking right asshole? You got a problem, you think something's going on? Why don't you MAN THE FUCK UP and TALK TO ME about it.

You know, I wash his clothes which means that I go through his pockets. I've never gone through his wallet or even unfolded papers that I've found. And yet he has the audacity to do that to me. I know for a fact that he's been closer to things that can threaten a relationship and I STLL take his word for it. He's partied with hookers for Christ's sake, and though I;ve been dissapointed, discusted and hurt (OMFG! Sound familiar???) I've refrained from going through his personal effects to try and find anything. I've TALKED to him about it.

The more I think about it guys, the angrier I get. What gives you the right?

[blas]

You need to spend some time away from this prickazoid where you don't have to think or worry about this. This guy seems like one of those hypocrites where he can do whatever he wants even if it borderlines infidelity, but you cannot, etc etc....and he neglects you and basically refuses to admit your presence around him.

Can I beat him?

[FuzzyKitten99]

You need to spend some time away from this prickazoid where you don't have to think or worry about this. This guy seems like one of those hypocrites where he can do whatever he wants even if it borderlines infidelity, but you cannot, etc etc....and he neglects you and basically refuses to admit your presence around him.

Can I beat him?

I agree... too bad my sister agreed to go with me on my cruise... I'd tell you to come with me and get some you time in warm weather with the whale/dolphin migrations (great photo opps!!!) and think about what you want from him.

I did notice something you said... he's always been like this. Did you think he would change either on his own or with your assistance? I think that is the biggest mistake that women make-thinking that change will happen. Sometimes it does, but most times not.

Even if you love him, if he can't provide something that is important to you, then maybe he just isn't the one for you. Ask yourself if you are truly happy at least 99% of the time.

Honestly, the guy you were flirting with sounds like someone who would make you happy. Sure, you'd always have feelings for your current BF, but why waste your time with someone who doesn't appreciate you, or has a difficult time showing it and refuses to try?

[Lil Bunny]

*waves guitar hero and beer in Snaps direction* What have I told ya, you need to come hang out! You can enjoy Bunny's style of insanity and go home a much happier person. ;)

You still have my number just in case you need to talk right?

[myswtghst]

Wow. To start with, no, I don't think you're a horrible person. Not at all, not one iota. I think you did a perfectly rational thing, given the situation. And before I launch into my own thoughts, I have to say that I agree with a lot of what's been contributed already, particularly Jester's analysis. But without further ado...

I've been there. Allow me to explain, and I apologize if it gets wordy, but I feel the setup is necessary. :o

My senior year of college, I moved in with 2 friends of mine, 1 girl, 1 guy. We needed a fourth roomie to get the rent nice and cheap, so the guy invited a guy friend of his, who happened to be in a band. We'll call guy 1 (my friend) D, and guy 2 (band boy) J, for simplicity's sake. Before moving in, we went to a few of J's gigs, and he and I fell very hard for eachother. We still needed a roommate, however, and between that and an unfortunate situation with my car nearly being totalled, we were living together and spending all our time together very soon in the relationship. In addition to that, I became very close with his family, his mom in particular, very quickly. All that led to the sense that we were in a very serious relationship, very quickly.

While J was, and still is, presumably, a good guy at heart, I ignored lots of warning signs. He had a condition called AVM (fans of Six Feet Under may be familiar) that led to a pigtail blood vessel in his brain leading to nowhere. When it burst, at the age of 20, he had a stroke. Because of that, he had a few short-term memory and motor problems, but in general, was in good health (he was 23 when we met). Unfortunately, he seemed to have decided that this "free pass," in the form of a near-death experience, meant that he needed to "live life to the fullest," which often involved crazy stunts, boys nights out with the band doing lord knows what, hanging out with some pretty shady people, occasionally running around nekkid, and generally acting like a deviant. While I was completely head over heels for him, and he constantly talked about how we were made for one another and would get married, etc, etc, etc, his behavior said otherwise.

Because we were living together, we did spend a lot of time together at home, but as you detailed, SA, a lot of it was spent sleeping, or doing normal, familiar things. I would cook dinner for him, drive the van to and from shows so the band could get drunk, and clean up after the kitties that were OUR pets. He would come home tanked while I was trying to sleep in preparation for class or work the next day, or would just not come home at all. After a while, as was apparently inevitable but not obvious to me, he cheated. And not only that, he cheated on me with a mutual aquaintance who worked at the bar we always hung out at.

We broke up, I was devastated, and things were pretty bad for a while. He got together with A, the bar girl, and I had to deal with her being nasty to me every time I went to what used to be my favorite bar with my friends. His immature behavior and big mouth wound up getting him kicked out of his band, and around that time, his grandpa died. When all that happened, A basically dumped him because she was only with him because he was "so much fun," and he came running back to me. I took him back, probably partly out of the strong feelings I had for him, and partly for the familiarity of the relationship. Again, he told me how in love he was, and how what happened before would never happen again, how losing me was the worst thing that ever happened to him, and that he'd do anything to prevent it from happening again.

Honestly, the best part of our second try was me realizing that I was now jaded, because of his past infidelity and behavior, and didn't let him get away with anything. Once I moved out and back home, he was terrible about visiting, and I became much more aware of his faults, including how hypocritical he was, especially about money and how we each treated/interacted with the opposite sex. That was enough for me, and the spark fizzled. We were still friendly, but don't talk much anymore, now that we live 250+ miles apart.

Moral of the story, I suppose, is two-fold. First off, people don't change. No matter how much we want them to, no matter how much they might want to, chances are, they'll slip back into the same old habits again, even if they don't mean to, even if they promise they won't. And it'll still hurt and still suck the second time around, even if we vow not to be so sensitive to it, even if we swear we understand that it's "just the way [he] is." And second, sometimes you need to be a little jaded, or just remove yourself from the situation to see how it really is. If your feelings are clouding your decision, take a step back to make sure that all these things that are "just the way he is" are things you can live with.

In the end, it's really up to you, who knows him best, to weigh the pros and cons. Knowing how hard it can be, I wish you luck in your decision, and I hope he does learn from this incident and starts treating you better, since I know you care for him. Good luck.

[kibbles]

Just looking at the issue with the phone messages, if it was on the other side of the coin, if you had read his phone messages and found the same thing and you confronted him and he came back with the line "you had no right to invade my privacy" how would you react to that?

[blas]

Also, re-reading your original post, you and I seem very similar. We both seem to be very big creatures of habit. Same schedule every day. We like things that way. Our boyfriends realize this. I think they take advantage of the fact that we are always home. My bf and I don't live together, but he has taken advantage of the fact that I spend most of my weekends at home since I've been sober, and I don't do a hell of a lot.

For a while, any time we were together, if his idiot friend or parents called, he'd hang up the phone, gather his shit together and head right out the door. He thought NOTHING of just blowing me off. Because he knew I was just going to stay right there.

So what did I do? A few weeks ago, I didn't have to do overtime on the weekend. I immediately made plans with a girlfriend for a Friday night. When bf asked what we were doing that weekend, I told him I was going out with HER, girls' night out, etc etc. Basic thing here: DIFFERING MY NORMAL WEEKEND SCHEDULE. Although it is childish to play games, I made it sound like I planned it without thinking of him or his feelings one bit.

Guess what? That dose of his own medicine kicked in REAL fast, because he immediately panicked and asked me "Well, when are you coming back? I really want to see you...can I come over and spend the night when you get back? I miss you!"

The FEAR I instilled in him, the fear that OMGBBQ, Blas isn't just sitting at home, OMGBBQ she may be going out, that scared him enough to realize what he had been doing to me and how it hurt me. It made him feel like SHIT. After that fiasco, every weekend since or whatever days we hang out, he ignores his phone (I don't suggest he go that far, but it's been nice!) and won't come running to mommy and daddy if they call and he pretends his friend does not exist when we are together. Now that he realizes I can do what he does, he is less apt to do it.

I suggest you try this, my dear. I didnt mean to hijack your thread, but I felt I needed to tell this story and give you this idea. We are so similar with our schedules and our ways of doing things, and I feel most of the reason your boyfriend ignores you is because he takes advantage of the fact that you're always there and do the same things day in and day out. DIFFER your daily schedule for once. Go out with a friend or see your family or go out with coworkers. Tell him in a nasty tone of voice about your plans. It should scare him enough that you won't be there to cook for him or do his laundry and that you're gone, he will want you back home ASAP!

[Amethyst Hunter]

:hug:

I have to agree with Jester. From what (admittedly little) I know about the whole situation, I honestly don't think that this is a guy you want to put down more long-term roots with (for the future). And maybe it's just me, but his going through your cell to find the 'evidence' (the texts) seems kinda...controlling/stalkerish, especially since he's pretty much admitted that he has no real reason to suspect you of anything. Whereas his own behavior has been less than exemplary...

:hug: I hope that things will get better for you regardless of what happens...

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I spent the day in bed, my waking moments were spent sobbing for making him feel this way and beating myself up for being foolish enough to appriciate attention.

:wtf:

Honey.

He cannot POSSIBLY be this good in the sack. And you cannot possibly be serious.

Why are you dating this guy and where do you draw the line? When he starts beating you? When he starts boning someone else (something I'm pretty much convinced he's already doing)?

I'm sorry to be so blunt and unkind here, but for fuck's sake! Things like this do not improve over time. They only get worse, especially if, God forbid, you end up marrying the guy. He's got two sets of standards....the sleazy, inconsiderate set for himself, and the Perfect, sexless little homemaker one for you. You know you are not okay with that. If you were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm less concerned with how much of a bum he is and more concerned with why you are content to continue in such a horrible situation.

This comment of yours that I included here: abused women say things like this. A man breaks their arms and puts them into the ER and all they can say is "If I hadn't been so slow getting Bubba his beer, he wouldn't have got mad. It's my own fault." Women who routinely get beaten, or cheated on, or mentally abused and start thinking that's the best they can expect, THEY THINK LIKE THIS. THEY SAY THINGS LIKE THIS. Are you headed down this road? Why do you expect so little for yourself?

And another thing: You don't go through his shit and yet, he goes through yours in a paranoid rage. You want to know why that is? Because people always think other people are like them. You are a trustworthy person. So you wrongly assume others are too. You assume he is because it's a trait you prize and you love him. Therefore, he must be trustworthy. He, on the other hand, is NOT a trustworthy person. He sneaks and hides and lies. He is hiding things from you. He doesn't think he's a bad person...it's just that in his world EVERYONE is doing that. Therefore, you must be, too. He knows he's not trustworthy, therefore, you aren't either.

To put that into an example all the retail workers here will relate to: When someone comes in and says "you think I'm a shoplifter!" or "You think I'm running a scam!" Or, "You shortchanged me!" What kind of people are those? Trustworthy ones?

Again, I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend you. But...I'm appalled. I'm just being 100 percent honest.

[Mr. Rager!]

Neither of you were in the right.

He should take your feelings into consideration, and he shouldn't have been going through your phone. He shouldn't party with strippers and he should be there for you.

At the same time, if you are in a committed relationship, you shouldn't be sending explicit text messages. Two wrong have yet to make a right... and it just won't happen.

[iradney]

Snap, I was in a relationship a few years ago where I too was the dependable one. There was no romance, no spark, no attention. We were together for nearly 3 years, and at the end I broke it off because he confessed to me that he no longer loved me, and hadn't loved me for most of our relationship.

TTO and I have been together for over 3 years. He is not a person who shows his emotions easily. But since we've been together, his family and friends all say how he's come out of his shell. At the beginning of our relationship, I was the touchy-feely one, always giving hugs and kisses. Now he's doing the same. He's not rose-petals-strewn-on-the-bed romantic, but he does loads of things that are sweet and thoughtful. Like when we first moved in together, he bought me an "I love you mug". Whenever he makes me tea, he makes it in that mug.

The point I'm trying to make here is, if he loves you, if he wants to keep you in his life, he should be willing to make a few compromises. Yes, you were wrong to let those texts get as far as they did, but he was wrong to ignore you and treat you like hired help.

You also need to sit down with yourself and ask yourself, if he doesn't want to compromise, if he doesn't want to give you the attention you NEED and DESERVE, do you really want to spend the rest of your life feeling worthless and empty? From what I've read of your posts, you are a wonderful woman with so much to offer - if I, a complete stranger in a different country, can see that, why can't he?

[NightWolf]

I did notice something you said... he's always been like this.

:confused: uh....ok, so what about this line then?

he's always filled his thoughts with his own wants and needs. He wasnt always like this though,

I have to say, I think what you have described so far is what can happen in any relationship after a while. Now you have stated some very valid qualities that you love about him and some qualities that you do not love about him. No relationship is perfect and it takes work on both sides. (that whole love is a two way street thing. ;)) I understand what it feels like to be neglected to another vice. I went through a similar stage with my wife.

Now before I go any further let me just say that I'm not a demon spawn of satan and do not think I deserve comments along the lines of some of the crap I've read above. I look at those comments and know all well that if my recently pissed off wife posted stuff like this, the same things would be said about me and it ticks me off to no end. We're not there, we don't know everything about their life, yet, some of us feel a need to go on a witch hunt right from the start. I don't wanna defend him totally, as he sounds like he needs a little growing up yet, but at the same time, I don't want to totally defend you, I'd be irate with messages like that on my wifes phone. That being said.....

I just went through a major meltdown with the wife. She exploded into an argument where she felt I wasn't giving enough and she was giving all. Of course, me being a guy, I felt it wasn't so. So, a major fight ensued and we almost headed for divorce. I started packing my stuff and then she came up to talk. (I'm all for talking, it's exploding and yelling matches that piss me off) Now I know that I'm not the best person around the house when it comes to picking up things or doing special romantic things, but like you've already pointed out, some of the small stuff tends to go un-noticed and we end up reminding each other of all the little things that we do for each other. That tends to be a nice ground to build upon an understanding and new ground to work on. (at least for us) I can't say the same will work for you.

We started working things out and came to realize that we do some pretty nifty things for each other that have just become so routine that we fail to see it until we have to go without these things. Now, I don't really know your BF and what he goes through each day, but you've already stated that he works hard during this time of the year. Maybe you guys need a getaway? A little weekend for two at a hotel. Get in some quality time with each other and have a nice romantic dinner. If nothing else, take some time for yourself and get out. Go to a spa for the day, have some relaxing "you" time. Of course, this is all if you can afford it. I'd seriously do some re-juggling of the budget to make it work out. But thats just me. I understand that you need interaction, but his version of unwinding might not be a nice home cooked meal, and a footrub. I'm also sure his "buddies" are a major motivator in getting him to come out. That whole Peer pressure thing.

I can say is that I agree with some of whats already been said. Yes he sounds like an ass, but you're also pissed/frustrated and of course it's going to come out like that because you're angry and frustrated. I think some of us fail to realize that and our "most men are assholes" flag goes up way too early. Maybe he suspected something was going on, or maybe your phone made a noise and he was checking out what it was. Either way, I don't really consider that kind of thing stalking behavior when you're in a relationship. I don't think it's a privacy issue. You're not room mates, you're BF/GF and you're living together. Everything should be an open book. Did you tell him about this other guy? I'm going to assume no. Now, ask yourself why he'd be upset. If it looks like you are sneaking around behind someone's back he's understandably going to be pissed. Now you admited it didn't look good and I would have reacted the same way he did. I don't know many that wouldn't have been pissed in that situation to be honest. I seriously think you both need to just sit down like civil human beings and talk about it, and if you can't be civil, someone needs to leave until things can get back to being civil. Yelling will only lead to more yelling.

I will say this, the grass is not always greener on the other side, yes, this new shiny object has your attention for now, but you never know what lies on the other side of that fence. Could be better, but it could also be much much worse. Be careful, mature, and decisive when dealing with this and I hope for the best in this ongoing issue.

Sorry for the length of this post, and sorry to those that I have just pissed off, I just get extremely irritated by some of what I read here on a constant basis, so much so that I tend to come here less and less every time I see it.

Remember....Judge not, lest ye be judged!

[iradney]

What Nightwolf says is also very true. At the end of the day, YOU know your BF best. I have to be honest tho, the fact that he thinks it's ok to go out drinking with the boys every night (regardless of whether he works hard or not, there are other, cheaper ways to unwind) and you can't even afford new clothes raises a red flag.

The fact that he thinks it's ok to attend hedonistic bachelor parties that are so far over the line it's a dot in the distance also raises a red flag.

The fact that you have pointed out to him what you need from him in the relationship, and he doesn't appear to make a compromise (like come home at 9:30 after going out with the boys, for example) is yet another red flag.

[Eireann]

Snap, judging from your post, I think you both are in the wrong relationship. You want someone who will be home more often and who appreciates the things you do around the house. He wants someone who will not object to him staying away much of the time, then spending his free time with his friends.

If you were to sit down and write a list of all the things you want in a relationship, I'd bet money that your list would differ wildly from the reality that you are experiencing. And the fact that you love him, sadly, doesn't change one single thing. We tend to think that if we love someone, that person will know it automatically, and give us the love we want. That doesn't happen, though. You could tell him that you love him every day, and nothing would change. However he views your relationship, it's very different from the way you view it.

Staying in a relationship because you love the other person is just as damaging as staying in a dead-end marriage "for the sake of the children". It's not going to do anyone any good; it'll only prolong the agony. Loving someone doesn't mean being a doormat. It doesn't mean putting up with behavior that makes you miserable.

And it doesn't mean taking responsibility for what the other person thinks or does.

You've stated that you "made" him feel a certain way. No, you didn't. He felt the way he did because that's the kind of person he is. I'm not absolving you of your conduct with the other man, keep in mind. I'm simply saying that you don't control how he feels, or how he will react in any given situation. It's hard enough to take responsibility for your own life. Don't add his life to that burden.

It sounds like you have some serious boundary issues - you're willing to be his live-in servant, you think that you're responsible for his feelings, and you let this flirtation with another man go far and beyond the range of what is acceptable. So, I think you need to do some serious thinking about what you want - that is, what you REALLY want, and not what you think you can have. What is really important to you? How miserable will you allow yourself to be before you realize that enough is enough? And are you really treating your current boyfriend fairly by remaining in a relationship with him that isn't giving you what you want?

Best of luck to you.

[SnapAddict218]

ive thought of counseling, and i think im going to need it. at the end of the day, he is a decent guy, dispite the fact that i think i need more. i believe that i am the crazy one for wanting something i cant have. i was doing just fine before when i would ignore the burning in my gut, the one that signaled the empty pit where desire should be. im a fuckin idiot for exploring this, i dont deserve it. i dont know what to do any more, but i think im just going to go a way for a while guys. there is more here than i can bear to respond to at the moment.

[Eireann]

You don't need to respond. What we all forget, too often, is that we owe ourselves, first and foremost, before anyone else. If you're not happy, you're not going to have happy relationships. You've been putting other people before you, and you've discovered that it doesn't work. It doesn't matter that your boyfriend is decent. That's not the point here. And no, with all due respect, you weren't doing "just fine" when you ignored your gut. That never works. And you're not a fucking idiot, either. You're confused and you know that you need help in working out some major emotional issues that have surfaced. There's nothing stupid about that.

Oh, and there is no need to feel guilty or "crazy" for wanting what you want. You can't get it from HIM - this doesn't mean that you can't get it; it only means that he's not the one to give it to you. Millions of others have made the same mistake, myself included (and more than once).

[Jester]

I know for a fact that he's been closer to things that can threaten a relationship and I STLL take his word for it. He's partied with hookers for Christ's sake, and though I;ve been dissapointed, discusted and hurt (OMFG! Sound familiar???) I've refrained from going through his personal effects to try and find anything. I've TALKED to him about it.

Yes, because you are two different types of people. He finds it perfectly acceptable to go through your stuff, and you wouldn't think of going through his. He doesn't trust you because he knows he is not worthy of trust, just as you trust him because you know you are worthy of trust. At the end of the day, you have to do what you feel is right, but I do agree with many others here that you could do much better.

That being said, I also have to agree with some other people here that said that you engagin in the X-rated texts wasn't right. It wasn't. That, however, does not really excuse all the stuff he has done.

And on that note, I am going to shut up, before I get into too much personal detail from my own life.

[FuzzyKitten99]

:confused: uh....ok, so what about this line then?
ok so i misread it...

[NightWolf]

no prob Fuzzy, just trying to keep facts straight on this. I've missed things or misread them in the past and reacted on them and it wasn't always a good feeling when I realized it. :o (but we're all human right?)

Snap, I don't think you're an idiot for exploring this, you want some guidance and options, it's natural to seek out some other feelings before making a rash decision that could make things worse. I seriously just think you need to take a step back, clear your mind and approach it with a clear mindset. If nothing else, if you have another place to stay for a few days, maybe take a break and hang out there, away from it all. The time away might just do both parties some good.

[Knightmare]

Ahh, good old emotional affairs. Gotta love 'em. You didn't phsically cheat on your boyfriend, but you did cheat.
And that's because he wasn't meeting some needs you have.

I had an emotional affair when I was with my ex. She wasn't meeting my needs, and no matter how much I wanted to talk about it, she would blow it off. So they continued until we broke up. (Of course, there is more to it than just that little blurb.)

That doesn't make you a bad person. Everyone wants to feel loved, wanted, needed, sexy, etc., and he wasn't giving that to you. (I know the feeling!)

And as for others in this thread calling him a jerk.. well, I won't do that because I don't know him. These things happen for many reasons, some of them he may not even know why he's acting that way.

You two need to sit down and have a big talk. Find out why he's acting like this. Find out if maybe it's something YOU are doing to cause him to act like this. Tension, stress, emotions can all lead to withdrawal.

If you plan on staying together, eventually getting married or whatnot, then I suggest couples counseling. (My opinion is that every couple should have counseling before taking the Vows. But that's just my opinion.)

If you don't work this out, then you are going to either stay in a very unhappy, unhealthy relationship, or you are going to break up.

Talk. Work at it. Don't bottle anything up. Let him know exactly how you feel, and let him do the same. Don't place blame. And don't put him on the defensive. Nothing makes a guy shut up faster than that.

[blas]

I have a horrible feeling that it's also a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side"

This guy you had an "emotional affair" with, he seems to be everything your current boyfriend is not. Seems perfect. Like he'd treat you right. Like he'd be your prince charming. I've been there and done that as well.

And when I ended up with the other guy, after a while, he lost interest in me and started exhibiting the same neglegent behavior as the last guy did. It's just like advertising. They'll say whatever they want to get you interested, but once it's all said and done, they really aren't any better than the current guy you have.