Just curious...

[blas]

Not to hijack the Craigslist thread, and kind of elaborating on my threads about the perverts on Yahoo messenger, and yes, this can apply to women as well, the only reason I am talking about men is because I am a heterosexual female...

Why are people so desperate to meet people that they'll look up strangers online in hopes of a one night stand?

Why can't these married men/women, if divorce is too expensive or not an option, discuss their issues and try to resolve them before one of them goes off and puts an add on Craigslist about "wife doesn't please me, I want a good fuck buddy" or something of the sort??? Why not try to work out problems, or is it just better and easier to go find someone else to fuck and sneak around like that?

If the sex between married couples is supposedly that bad, why not see a therapist or spend some time together trying to improve, before going out and cheating? I think a woman is bound to be less insulted if she's given a chance to try to up her sex drive, rather than find out her husband was meeting random people on the Internet!

What do you guys think? How many people that are doing the casual internet buddy sex thing are being safe about it? How many people are honestly not married?

[TNT]

You can turn this phrase either way, but it still applies: if a man can't trust his wife, why should I?

[powerboy]

Because those people are assholes.

[Saydrah]

Honestly, I've never cheated on someone- in the sense that, while in a monogamous relationship, I fooled around with a person outside the relationship- but I can understand it. I'm polyamorous, which is a fancy way of saying I don't feel like the rigid cultural ideal of one man one woman together FOREVAH is for me. That doesn't mean my lifestyle is right for anyone else; I just don't feel that monogamy is really such a shining ideal. Happiness in relationships is a better goal, as long as what makes you happy isn't hurting anyone else.

I do think there are situations where cheating IS the best option. If a husband and a wife are no longer intimate but ARE able to remain amicable and parent their children well, might it not be better for the kids if Daddy DISCREETLY and SAFELY gets a little action on the side, rather than succumbing to the forces of deprivation and divorcing his wife, subjecting his kids to lawyers, custody debates, and a new girlfriend to fit into their lives? Sure, parents should be honest with their kids- eventually. If, while the kids are young, it's possible to keep up appearances at ALL times of a good, loving marriage, and to model good couples' behavior, but the only thing missing is sex- I see nothing wrong with cheating as long as the proper precautions are taken to make sure kids and wife are not subjected to it.

There are also couples where one partner is medically unable to have sex, but they love each other nonetheless. Ideally, the incapable partner would give the blue-balled (or uh female organed) person permission to meet their needs safely and discreetly, with or without mentioning it to the incapable partner, but that's not always possible. Does the capable partner leave someone he or she really loves and wants to take care of, do they face never having sex again their whole lives, or do they stay with the person they love and occasionally, discreetly, meet their needs with someone else- again, SAFELY?

That said, Craigslist is a VERY STUPID PLACE to go to meet those needs. A smart person in that situation would meet people in other ways that are more likely to produce a similar individual with similar needs and who places a similar value upon discretion and safety. Tis not that hard to find.

[blas]

I definetly would not be okay with my boyfriend or husband or whatever have you sneaking off and having a little action on the side just because I'm not "putting out" enough for him. Ya know, even without kids, work can suck up a lot of your life. If you aren't willing to work it out or try something new, you should just seperate. Even if you don't divorce. The other person has a right to know. It would hurt me to the point of doing something probably very self destructive if my boyfriend went out and had sex with another girl just because our work schedules clash and he felt he wasn't getting what he wanted from me or I wasn't giving it to him as often as he wanted. I'm willing to work with people when they aren't doing things behind my back to force to me to do it.

[Saydrah]

There's a big difference between a man being too lazy to schedule time with his lady or being tired from work all the time or just not wanting to work on the relationship, and something where there really, truly is a very real prospect that he will never have sex again with someone he loves and wants to raise his children with. People who are too lazy or too shy to have a talk about the subject or to work on their relationship are pathetic- but sometimes there is just a rock and a hard place, and in maybe 1% of cheating situations, I would say it IS the best choice. The other 99% should buck up and either learn to deal or change their lifestyle to accomodate their preferences. But I'm not willing to condemn ALL cheating when- if nobody finds out and it's safe- it COULD be the best choice for a responsible person who just can't face either never having sex again or having to put their kids through a divorce.

This is getting a little M rated, but I think our culture really demonizes having sexual needs- and this isn't a personal thing, either. I struggle with intermittent depression myself, and when I'm depressed I want nothing to do with any of my partners sexually. That's when it's nice to not have the guilt- "Get outta here, go on a date, have fun," is a liberating thing to be able to say for me. I don't necessarily think that my needs for, among other things, warm tea, long conversations, and mutual dog walking in a relationship are any less important than my spouse's need to have physical intimacy as part of a relationship even when I'm in a grumpy mood.

My solution sure ain't for everyone, but the point is that there is this perception out there that men who need sex from a relationship are bad selfish people, while women who need conversation and emotional intimacy from a relationship are being totally reasonable. Of course, there are plenty of couples where the dynamic is the exact opposite, but the unfairness remains- we see one set of relationship needs as selfish, and the other set as perfectly okay.

[BookstoreEscapee]

My solution sure ain't for everyone, but the point is that there is this perception out there that men who need sex from a relationship are bad selfish people, while women who need conversation and emotional intimacy from a relationship are being totally reasonable. Of course, there are plenty of couples where the dynamic is the exact opposite, but the unfairness remains- we see one set of relationship needs as selfish, and the other set as perfectly okay.

I do have to agree with you on this one. Plus, there is still a double standard...men who want sex are just being, well, men...and women who want sex are sluts (even within relationships, this still seems to hold). And all women want tea and sympathy but men who want that are wusses. What's wrong with tea and sex? (Well, maybe not at the same time...that could be painful!)

I've never cheated...I don't think I could stay with someone who cheated on me. If the issue is about lack of sex drive or lack of time together due to work/kids/etc. then I think you owe it to your partner to discuss the problem and look for solutions. If the issue is something like your example of a physical disability that makes it impossible (paralysis, debilitating illness) I can understand wanting to work out a discreet arrangement...in a perfect world, with permission from the disabled partner. (And with said permission, especially, I wouldn't consider that "cheating," per se.)

[ThePhoneGoddess]

Saydrah, you bring up some very good points. In times past, when divorce was not socially acceptable, couples who had come to the 'end' of their relationship for whatever reason would, if they had the financial capability, stay married publicly but go their separate ways. Often the wife would ok the husband having a mistress, as long as he did not embarrass her in public by making wife and mistress meet, and as long as mistress knew to keep out of wife's and kid's ways. A good example of this is William Randolph Hearst. He and his wife stayed married because they were high up in society but she totally approved of his 30 some year relationship with the actress Marion Davies.

[Giggle Goose]

I have an account on OKcupid for shits and gigs. The tests are pretty fun, and I've met friends on there when I was single.

But yesterday I got this message that said I looked like "easy p***y." For some reason, this just offended me in the worst way. I have on there that I'm seeing someone; but this person apparently thinks we should "stil hook up sometime." What the hell, people???! It's called a bar! I was really upset over it; and as cliche as it sounds I felt really dirty and objectified. Sheltered life, anyone? :o

PLEASE tell me people aren't really like this. Some people didn't get enough hugs or something as a kid.

[iradney]

A buddy of mine is interested in polyamory. He's not practising because he hasn't met any people that are likeminded yet. Me, on the other hand, I don't share well. Mostly coz of my own fears and insecurities, but yeah, that's just me :)

I have never cheated on a boyfriend - even with the ones where we never said we're "exclusive".
I have been cheated on though - and it hurts like hell. If you want someone else, tell me and I'll either say "go for it" or "fine, then I'm gone".

I still resent the whole "boys are boys" mentality, where most of the time, guys are hailed for their sexual prowess. Whereas women are shunned and demeaned for doing the same thing as men. Whether you're male or female, there is nothing wrong with a healthy sexual appetite, as long as you're responsible and mature about the whole thing!

[Saydrah]

In times past, when divorce was not socially acceptable, couples who had come to the 'end' of their relationship for whatever reason would, if they had the financial capability, stay married publicly but go their separate ways. Often the wife would ok the husband having a mistress, as long as he did not embarrass her in public by making wife and mistress meet, and as long as mistress knew to keep out of wife's and kid's ways.

There was a governor who was caught kissing his secretary in his limousine on his way to the airport. Media got video and everything. It could have ruined his career in politics and his reputation had he tried to deny it, make a huge deal of it, basically pull a Clinton. What did he do? Called a press conference and brought his wife, kids, and secretary on the stage and:

"I'd like to introduce all of you in the media to some people who are very important to me. This is my wife- I love her very much. These are my children- I love them very much. This is my girlfriend- I love her very much."

Walked away from the podium, scandal over, and hardly anyone remembers it even happened.

[Mr. Rager!]

I absolutely abhor cheaters. I really do.

And on the note that the wife won't have sex... has the husband given her a reason to want to have sex with him? I mean, just because you're married to a girl, doesn't mean that you should get lazy on her. Take her out to dates, make her feel special like you did when you were dating, suprise her. Flirt with her, treat her well, help her out around the house... what you do during the day, will lead up to what happens at night.

Didn't pay attention to her or make her feel special? You aren't getting any.

I don't care if it's been a year since the last time you had sex with your wife, you don't go messing around on her. There is so much crap out there than can make you sick, why risk it? On top of it all... what if you get sick and give it to your wife?

And I could say the same vice versa, but in most cases, men are always ready for sex. However, men can feel neglected enough to where they don't want to have sex either.

It takes effort. I love making the effort though! :D

*wife can be girlfriend and husband can be boyfriend

[Saydrah]

Sure, working on a relationship is a good idea. But the thing I think people don't understand is if one partner needs sex in the relationship, and the other person needs emotional intimacy in a relationship, one is not necessarily a LESSER need than the other. Nobody really objects to a neglected wife who wants to be there for her kids but doesn't get deep, soulful conversation at home making a close friend and spending lots of time with her having the conversations she wishes she was having with her husband, but it's still going outside the marriage something missing in her relationship. So, her needs are significant enough to meet them elsewhere, but his aren't?

Man: I need sex in my relationship. This is non-negotiable.

Public: You pig!

Woman: I need emotional intimacy in relationships. This is non-negotiable.

Public: Totally understandable!

Try your post with the roles and needs reversed:

"Has the wife given him a reason to ask her about her day and converse with her? I mean, just because you're married to a guy doesn't mean you should get lazy on him. Give him oral sex, make him breakfast, make him feel special like you did when you were dating. Surprise him, flirt with him, treat him well, help pay the bills. What you do at night.... will help with what he does during the day."

Sounds pretty sexist doesn't it?

One more point: If I were a man making this post, I'd be called a misogynist.

[myswtghst]

Man: I need sex in my relationship. This is non-negotiable.

Public: You pig!

Woman: I need emotional intimacy in relationships. This is non-negotiable.

Public: Totally understandable!

I have to agree with your posts, Saydrah. Granted, I don't think I'm a polyamory type of gal myself, given that I'm sure I'd have jealousy issues, but I do get where you're coming from. I happen to be a bit, um, sex-crazed myself at times, to the point that I've wanted more than a significant other, but I always looked at it as a work it out or end the relationship type of situation. Most cheating I've been around has happened because there were multiple things wrong in the relationship and people were too chicken to just end it.

And while this may be an overshare, here goes. I've got friends, a married couple, who have a great relationship, but because the wife is bisexual, they've had threesomes, a few times over the years, to spice things up and satisfy her female urges. To date, they consider me their most succesful threesome, because we worked it out as friends who love and respect each other, and because both parties were most definitely 100% ok and in favor of the situation. Granted, I was completely single at the time, and I wouldn't have done it otherwise, but I'm glad that I did do it, and have had the experience.

[Mr. Rager!]

My whole feeling on the issue is that men for the most part can sleep with just about anything. Women on the other hand need to feel some sort of connection for the most part. I know there is going to be an exception in all onstances, but, I think I'm covering the majority pretty well. I have no problem with a girl that loves/craves sex. I really don't. In fact, I think it's great. I just think it's wrong for a guy to go outside of the relationship for sex when sex should be a matter of love. Call me old fashioned when it comes to that. So if a man goes outside the relationship, has he really proved to the woman he is in the relatioship with that he loves her? And yes, I still believe that woman also need to put forth effort into the relationship.This is all a two way street... but even if there are some bumps in the road, you can't take a detour.

[blas]

Your girlfriend is a very lucky lady, FashionLad. I respected you before, but after everything you've written :worship:

I'm willing to see it from both sides of the argument here. And I can understand S's point very clearly as well.

I just don't think it's right that if I don't "put out" enough, my bf/husband would have every right to go and cheat on me, that's all. I don't think that's right at all. And I shouldn't have to regret my decisions, like choosing not to have sex once in a while, and then later on thinking "Well, should I have? Is he mad? Is he going to go find a girl that will put out for him?"

[Saydrah]

Blas- And that is completely understandable. There is no reason that abstaining from sex for a WHILE should not be okay. I go through those phases myself. I happen to have no problem giving my man a pat on the butt and sending him out the door to another girl he's been seeing, but seriously, I don't expect that of anyone else.

Most relationships where sex isn't happening need both people to work on the relationship, or they just need a break from sex for a while, or one person involved is depressed/stressed out/hormonally fluctuating and when that issue is resolved, the sex issue will also be resolved. Sometimes people have just been together for so long that they're bored, which is where sex therapists (yes, sex therapists) can sometimes be helpful by fostering a safe environment for both partners to discuss fantasies and what is and isn't working for them in the relationship both sexually and in other ways. Often with young couples the female in the relationship just isn't ready for sex- there is an expectation in society that girls should be ready by prom night at the latest, when the biological truth of the matter is that women don't completely mature sexually until they are well into their twenties. Sure, they can get pregnant at 11 and sadly sometimes do, but that doesn't mean that they are ready to enjoy a sexual relationship- many girls don't even have orgasms until their twenties, and having sex without that for several years sure might turn someone off to the idea or give them the impression that it's something you only do to keep your man happy.

myswtghst-

Go you. The world needs more sex-positive women. That is all.

[Jester]

Plus, there is still a double standard...men who want sex are just being, well, men...and women who want sex are sluts. And all women want tea and sympathy but men who want that are wusses.

I would love a woman that wants sex and sympathy. I want sex and sympathy.

Of course, if they want tea, I might brew it for them, but they are drinking it on their own.

Because frankly, a cup of tea just isn't my cup of tea. :lol:

I've never cheated...

I'm 37 years old, and I have yet to cheat on any woman I have dated. And by "cheating" I don't mean having sex. I mean a passionate kiss or anything more than that. Period.

But that's just me. I rarely expect other people to live up to the standards I set for myself.

A buddy of mine is interested in polyamory. He's not practising because he hasn't met any people that are likeminded yet. Me, on the other hand, I don't share well.

It may amuse some of you to know that I have, for four straight years, been the DJ for a swingers convention that comes to town. I have no problem with swingers, and during some of the conventions, I have enjoyed the "fringe benefits" as it were of working for them. But I myself doubt I could be a swinger with a girl I was in a relationship with. Not only does it not "do" anything for me, as Iradney said, I just don't share well. I don't have a problem with the swinger idea, and I don't have a problem having fun with them and/or others when I am single, but when I am in a relationship? Um, no. Just not for me.

My whole feeling on the issue is that men for the most part can sleep with just about anything.

Maybe for the most part, but I know that, personally, I have never (not once!) slept with a woman that I have not made laugh. I could not sleep with a complete ditz. I could not sleep with someone whose company I didn't enjoy. And even the one night stands, there has been honesty....we both knew what it was and what it wasn't.

Maybe all of this is why I'm not getting that much. Ya think?

[Mr. Rager!]

Maybe for the most part, but I know that, personally, I have never (not once!) slept with a woman that I have not made laugh.

Maybe all of this is why I'm not getting that much. Ya think?

So what you're saying is that you're not all that funny? :p

I agree, I'm not going to just sleep with anyone either. But, how many guys do you know that will opposed to how many guys do you know that won't. There are always exceptions to every rule, but they are rules for a reason.

[Acolyte]

Here's a question for everybody, regarding polyamoury: Should it be considered cheating if both parties are OK with it?

[Saydrah]

Here's a question for everybody, regarding polyamoury: Should it be considered cheating if both parties are OK with it?

No.


That's the short answer.

The long answer is still pretty short: A relationship between consenting adults should have limits set only by reasonable laws (i.e. pedophilia = no good) and the adults themselves. If my boyfriend and I both agree that we should never pick our noses in front of anyone besides each other, then darnit, if I go outside the relationship for nosepicking, that's a violation of his trust! But if we discuss it and agree that, while when we were first together it was necessary to monogamously nosepick, we now feel secure enough in our relationship that we can both pick our noses in front of others, then that's different. It's all about communication.

Real polyamory has less boogers, but I'm trying not to be too explicit.

Links- Caution: All links here may have adult or potentially offensive content:

http://mistressmatisse.blogspot.com/search/label/polyamory (Pro domme's blog posts about polyamory)

http://www.polyweekly.com (weekly podcast about poly)

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Author?oid=9386&category=9385 (columns by same person as does the blog, many are on poly topics)

[Jester]

Maybe for the most part, but I know that, personally, I have never (not once!) slept with a woman that I have not made laugh.
Maybe all of this is why I'm not getting that much. Ya think?

So what you're saying is that you're not all that funny? :p

And the point goes to Fashion Lad! Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

Here's a question for everybody, regarding polyamoury: Should it be considered cheating if both parties are OK with it?

How can it be?

The whole idea about a relationship is that it is built on trust.

If both sides of the relationship are alright with sexual activity outside of the primary couple, and no trust is broken, how can it be cheating?

I know more than a few swingers, and they don't view their extracurricular activities as cheating. How can you be cheating on your wife if she is the one that brought you the other woman?

But there CAN be cheating in polyamorous/swinging relationships. How? Well, say for instance that one of the rules within the relationship is that you can have sex with other people, as long as your partner approves them. Now say you go and have sex with someone that your partner has never met or approved, and you don't tell your partner about them? Well, yes, that would be cheating.

I could probably go on more about this, but I am awake at an unusually early time for me, so I probably won't make all that much sense if I do! I am sure y'all can figure out what I am trying to say here, though.

[Geek King]

I grew up in a very religious background. As I've looked, read, and learned, I've come to view polyamoury and polygamy as something that I can live with, so long as everyone involved is okay with the arrangements. I don't think its for me, but then I've never been in the position of being in love with multiple people outside of a RPG. As long as you're not trying to tell me what I should do with my life, you're welcome to do whatever you like when you turn out the lights. Or leave the lights on, if that's your thing. :lol:

I also wonder about some of the trouble in relationships where one (or both) partners claim to be tired of sex in the relationship. Do people realize that there are other ways to please a partner than just inserting slot A into tab B? I think the fine art of actual "making out" is dying out, leading to a lot of unsatisfied people who don't know why they aren't fufilled by just sex. There's a whole world of "love play" that makes life more interesting, but you never really hear about it (except for that scene in Hot Shots :rolleyes:). Maybe I'm just out of touch.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Being asexual, I've thought several times about what any future relationship I might have with someone might be.

To me, physical intimacy is disgusting. Not to be offensive, but I don't understand how you people can do it. :lol: The thought of a person putting their tongue in my mouth, let alone anything else, anyWHERE else, is just too horrifying for words. To me, letting someone kiss me on the lips is about the furtherest reach of physicality I am remotely comfortable with (and even that is pushing it). I like hugging, cuddling, petting hair, stuff like that, with people who make me comfortable. Anything else is just...BLUGH.

However, I still like the idea of EMOTIONAL closeness. I like the thought of coming home to someone familiar and loving and being able to lay on them while we watch TV.

However, unless I were able to hook up with another asexual person who felt the same way, I think it would be selfish of me to expect that person to conform to my standards if they had sexual urges that I didn't. And my options would be to either suck it up and put out once in a while, or to allow them to seek a physical release elsewhere. And to be honest, I'm more comfortable with them finding something on the side, as long as they were smart about it.

I actually came to the conclusion that it might be best for me to marry a gay man for the mutual benefit. If I were going to get jealous, I'd be less jealous of another guy than of a girl, we'd get all the advantages of being married, he could keep his signifigant other in the house for all I care, but I could still come and lay on him once in a while when I felt the need for human companionship.

Still, I think the odds of me getting into even this sort of relationship are long, but lord only knows what comes, right?

[Emrld]

The main point that I am seeing over and over in reading . . .is that if all parties involved with the situation are ok with the situation - then go for it.

One thing the Blas87 mentioned that seems to have been dropped (or maybe I miss-read but, it is still a point in this same thread that should be mentioned) Is the ones that go online looking for sexual hook ups and do not make it clear that they are actually married or in a serious relationship. I fully admit that there were times in the past that all I wanted was something casual with no real strings to it. However, my personal code is no crossing the line of that of a serious relationship. As the single person in the equation I deserve the respect of knowing the truth.
I used to be on a site that was specifically for hooking up . . .I made it crystal clear that I wasn't interested in Married or "In a Relationship" even if partner is ok. It got really old with people saying that it shouldn't matter, a casual hook up is a casual hook up and who was I to judge them. I didn't see it as judging them, just being within my comfort zone.
Personally I don't agree with going outside a marriage for sexual gratification. I view marriage as a commitment between two people . . .and staying together just for the sake of the kids . . .I don't agree with that as the best option.
However, what you do and your partner agree to - that is your business not mine. Everyone should get to live that part of their life with what works for them . . .I will respect your choices . . .and demand the same respect back.