signing the back of a credit card with some form of "See ID"

[Bright_Star]

Whenever I've gotten a nice shiny new credit card, the first thing I do is turn it over & sign it with my signature. It says right there just above the signature block to put in your "authorized signature". NOWHERE does it say that it's perfectly acceptable to put in some form of "See ID".
"SEE ID" is NOT a signature & the ONLY way it would be is if that's your legal name. How many people do you know who have "SEE ID" as their name? NONE!
Having a cashier make someone sign their name to a card that hasn't been signed is an invitation to disaster. Seems to me that if the card isn't signed then you can't use it cause in every card holder agreement I've ever seen it states that 'card is not valid UNTIL signed". So the merchant is under no obligation to accept a card that's not signed or has "SEE ID " on it. & if that pissed off a lot of people then maybe that'll wake some of them up.
This delusion that if you show ID with your card when making a purchase that it somehow protects you from ID theft is absurd. How do you know that the cashier is on the up & up? Here you are a stranger showing another stranger your credit card & ID. Did it ever occur to you that retail establishments are only in it to make a profit & that there's no reason for them to protect your identity? Sure, you could argue that our dollars are the reason they make those profits BUT unless their bottom line is affected then they have little incentive in preventing ID theft.
I go through great lengths to make sure my personal information is kept from prying eyes. It's alarming how so many people are clueless about safe guarding their personal information. Those are the people that bitch the loudest when their ID is compromised cause they didn't take the time to safegaurd their ID.
What's the answer you ask? I have no idea but I do know this:
As long as a lot of people are careless about showing their personal information then there will ALWAYS be those who prey on them.
That's my 2 cents.

[Sandman]

I have seen a few customers sign and put see ID. Technically we are to make them sign due to our merchant agreements.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I work in security for prepaid cell phones, and part of my job is to deal with disputed charges. If we receive official notice from a bank that it is disputing a charge on behalf of an account holder, we are required by law to turn over all relevant information. If the bank's investigation concludes that it is an unauthorized charge, then we are required to refund the money. Let me rephrase that: WE LOSE OUT ON THAT SALE. Often the person who is using the phone has already spent the money talking on the phone, so we not only out the sale but the phone holder now owes us the money as well. We rarely get that money back.

The majority of disputed charges are judged as unauthorized and refunded, because once the bank finds out that an account holder knows who took the money and knows them (as a friend or family member), it will refuse to investigate, and tell the account holder they have to get it from the person who used the card. Therefore most officially disputed charges are done by total strangers who have somehow got the card.

Most successful financial criminals are professionals. They get a hold of thousands of credit card numbers at one time, possibly by hacking into a bank or credit card company's computer systems, or through an unscrupulous finance employee who sells them the information. Giving out the last 4 of your social to a merchant over the phone (which is what I do all night long, and boy do people get paranoid about it) is a very unlikely way to have your identity stolen. First of all, credit card theft is a very different crime than identity theft, but people always seem to assume the two are the same thing. Second, most financial criminals, when they get ahold of a card number, will use the card multiple times very fast, and then get rid of the card number. Identity criminals, on the other hand, take a long time to gather information on a certain identity---getting a birth certificate takes months, a copy of a social security card another couple of months, etc. They will then use the identity for months or even years, until the real person finally discovers what is going on.

When a merchant is given a card for payment and the back is not signed, the merchant is REQUIRED by the credit card company agreement to A) check ID, and then B) tell the customer to sign the card before they can accept it. Showing your ID is NOT absurd, it is the single most successful way to ensure that the card belongs to the customer and not anyone else. Few front line cashiers and salespeople are interested in stealing your information, because credit card theft could easily be traced back to them, as they have had physical contact with you.

I assure you, requiring people to sign the backs of their cards does piss a lot of people off, but the fact is that there are lazy, stupid people in this world. There always has been, and there always will be. Getting them pissed off has never worked, they continue to be stupid and lazy.

I understand this issue worries you, but if so then you need to read up on what merchants actually ARE required to do by law, and how identity theft usually occurs before you assume you know.

[FuzzyKitten99]

I have my card signed, but I also wrote next to it "Please check ID". Merchants check it about 50% of the time.

I have worked in a call center of a bank. I know how long it takes for charges to get refunded to the account and get everything straightened out. Time, money, and stress are all factors.

I understand the reasoning behind the "see ID" because unauthorized charges can cause big problems. Even corporate card customers more often than not have "see ID" rather than a signature. This means the accountholder wants you to check that the name on the card matches the DL name. Signatures themselves really mean nothing anymore, as a one Sir John Hargrave pointed out: http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/ . As long as the card name matches the ID name, you can sign the pad/paper with anything you want.

It has nothing to do with ID theft for most people... it has to do with unauthorized charges to the account that are a BIG PITA and make life harder for people, especially those on a fixed income.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I have my card signed, but I also wrote next to it "Please check ID". Merchants check it about 50% of the time.

And those 50 % of merchants are breaking their credit card agreements. The merchant agreements state that if the card is signed, they are not to ask for ID. If the card is not signed or has something else written on it, then they are required to ask for ID.

I know, it's stupid. I personally think merchants should ask for ID everytime someone uses a card, just like using a check, but the credit card companies have their own weird reasons for doing things.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

See, that's the bit I don't understand. Why would you be required to NOT ask for ID just because something is signed?

You know what I'm good at? Forgery. I'm an honest person, and I would never use my mad forgery skills for evil. And that's a good thing, because I can fake the heck out of a signature. Frankly, I don't think the sig does much. But checking ID would certainly slow someone down if they were trying to use the card and it wasn't theirs.

I dont' get that.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

Technically, RK, the cashier is supposed to keep the card until it's been run through and the customer has signed the slip, then they are supposed to check the signatures to make sure they match. You don't need to see ID for that process.

But like you said, forging a signature is not difficult.

[GolfCart34]

My bf is better at looking this up than I am, but according to the merchant and cardmember agreements for both Visa and MasterCard, the cardmember is required to sign the back of the card with their signature in order for their card to be valid. I also believe that if the card is stolen and the card company finds out that it is not signed or just says "see ID" then the victim is liable for all charges incurred.

As for the merchant, the merchant is not allowed to ask to see an ID if the card is signed and the signature matches the card on the slip (merchants can actually have their MC/Visa privileges revoked if they ask to see an ID on a signed card and the customer complains). If the signatures do not match then the merchant can then require to see an ID. If the card is not signed, then the merchant can either require the cardholder to sign the card in front of them and present a photo ID or refuse the sale entirely. I've actually worked for a company where the management followed this policy to the letter. If you card was signed and your signatures matched then you were good. If the signatures didn't match, and you showed ID, you were good as long as your card was signed. If you didn't sign your card or it said "see ID" we required you to sign it in our presence and present and ID. If the customer refused to do this then we refused the sale. Simple as that. Management did back us up 100% with this policy. Sure it pissed off a lot of customers, but we'd rather be out $25 for admission than have somebody try and come after the park for credit card fraud. And trust me, management had the spine to top all spines at this place. You got nasty with them and they would get nasty right back with you (although, in more of a sarcastic polite kind of way).

I work for a bank and I make sure to tell all of my customers to sign their cards and not put "see ID" on the back. "See ID" is not a valid signature and it does not protect you from credit card fraud. I mean, you don't go to the bank and sign your mortgage with "See ID" do you? The signature on the back of a credit card is a binding contract and states that you accept the terms of your credit agreement.

And don't even get me started on the unsigned credit card business. Do you know how many times I've heard, "Well, if my card's not signed then nobody can use it" over my years in the service industry? Let's just put it this way, if I had a penny for every time I heard that excuse I'd be retired on a tropical island at age 25. Not signing your card is only a recipe for disaster. If you drop your card and it's not signed then somebody can just pick it up, sign it, use it, and most clerks will be none the wiser. I'm a stickler for signatures, but I've noticed that too many clerks in the service industry are not. I'm just watching out for the customer.

[chops]

It used to be the case where checking ID was flat-out not allowed. It's no longer the case, however, merchants can not refuse a sale because ID was not shown so long as the card was signed and the signatures match. Visa and MasterCard are starting to concede that many merchants do check ID, but insist that it's not a substitute for checking signatures.

To quote MasterCard's merchant rules (http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF/MERC-Entire_Manual.pdf):
A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards.
Visa's rule (http://www.usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf) is similar, and IMO explained more clearly:
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.

Also, right above that, is a quote directly relevant to this thread:
Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don’t take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures—they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting.

“See ID” or “Ask for ID” is not a valid substitute for a signature. The customer must sign the card in your presence, as stated above.

Note that the linked documents are PDF files.

[Trayol]

The main reason my debit card is signed is because I don't want to have to remember to get out my ID every time I use it. :o

I personally always check to see if the back of a customer's card is signed or has "See ID" before I swipe it. Over this past winter break, I received at least a half dozen compliments for asking to see the persons ID as stated by on their cards. :D

It doesn't bother me or my customers except for one guy whose signature actually looks like "CID" but more cursively. He even told me that mine was the only store that would check for an ID. :rolleyes:

[BookstoreEscapee]

I used to have See ID written on one of my cards. It was purely an experiment to see how many cashiers actually asked.

The answer?

Two.


I actually had one girl ask why I had written that, and I told her exactly why, but she didn't actually ask to see my ID. And she had already given the card back when she asked. :rolleyes:

[powerboy]

\
I know, it's stupid. I personally think merchants should ask for ID everytime someone uses a card, just like using a check, but the credit card companies have their own weird reasons for doing things.


I always ask to see that persons ID until I know that person by heart. But I do check to see if the name matches. I have SEE I.D. on the back of my card, because I want that cashier to see that is truly me.