May Need a New Vet

[flybye023]

Ok, so I need some opinions here. Last fall my cat got an ingrown claw. Basically, one of his claws grew unusually quickly and unusually curved, pierced his pad and was growing into said pad. My sister and I discovered it when we went to clip his claws. After some examination we decided to let the vet handle it. Our main reason for this is we thought he needed to be sedated or at least given a local anesthetic.

Well, the vet did neither. She more or less had her vet's assistant hold our pet down with some kevlar gloves* and just wrestled the cat and cut the claw off below the quick. They then sealed the wound with silver nitrate, I think.

Now, the cat won't even let us touch his paws to clip his nails again. He fights it tooth and nail. I'm thinking of going to a different vet in the future but I want to make sure I'm not being sucky in doing so. Was I wrong to expect an anesthesia of some sort? Should I have requested it? I didn't because I didn't want it to look like I was telling the vet how to do her job, but overall I'm not best pleased over this visit.


*(which were still covered in another animal's blood; they had tried to clean them but as the gloves were black they couldn't see that the gloves were still dirty)

[DarthRetard]

I'd drop the vet just for that gloves issue. Would you stay with the same people doctor if they didnt alternate/switch gloves?

[crazylegs]

They may have thought that the risk of putting an animal under general anastesia (bugger it, I can never spell that word!) is too great a risk for what is probably the cat equivilent of an ingrown toenail.

HOWEVER

Some local wouldn't have gone amiss and the gloves shoulf have been spotless, I understand that Kevlar is expensive (I know having spent £300 ($600) on body armour for my last job) but it can still be cleaned properly.

[Saydrah]

I would look into finding a vet that incorporates some holistic therapies into their daily practice. Not because you necessarily need a "holistic vet," or any of those therapies, but because most vets who fall into this category place a higher emphasis on pain management and stress management for their furry clients than 100% traditional vets. Holistic clinics generally are a little pricier, but that's because they budget more time per patient, including time to get to know the patient before poking where it hurts, and often time to use acupressure or massage to combat stress.

I have, gosh, five or six different vets, and I use them all for different reasons.

Dr. Batch, DVM: Sees my box turtle, David (about age 18). He is a reptile expert, a turtle owner himself, and performed surgery on little Dave over 10 years ago- David is still doing fine! His hospital has several accreditations from independent bodies, and he has personally won awards for his practice of veterinary medicine on exotic animals. Reptiles need expertise and experience in their care more than they need attention to their stress levels (in most cases, with exceptions). Their care is very specialized, and Dr. Batch has taken the time to continue his education and expand his knowledge long after graduating vet school.

Dr. Long, DVM: Sees my horse, Ember, for farm calls. He is a vet who should be a standup comic, but he might offend the whole audience- he has a very dry, dark sense of humor. He doesn't work for a hospital, only out of his truck, so he arrives quickly especially in emergencies. Dr. Long always gives a worst case scenario first; he doesn't sugar coat anything, and I appreciate that with the horse. He also incorporates both new therapies and old horse industry standbys to tailor care to every patient. For example, when another vet recommended a drug for my horse that would cost about $1200 over four months, Dr. Long instead recommended a human drug that costs less than $1 a day but needs to be given daily for the horse's lifetime. It works great for my horse and isn't an inconvenience to administer.

Dr. Alghrim, DVM: Sees my rats for non-emergencies and my kitten, Monster. This is my holistic vet; she really takes the time to meet each patient as an individual and it shows that she loves her job in every visit. When I took a very sick General Mao (Monster's sister, now owned by my SO's brother) to see her for a second opinion, another vet had diagnosed FIP (a terminal condition), a diagnosis with which I disagreed. She took the time to give Mao a gentle shoulder massage until she started purring before palpating her ouchy belly, then prescribed a fecal test for parasites, a 14-day course of a strong parasiticide, rest, and organic baby food to keep her weight up and keep her hydrated. Within two days Mao was perking up, and she's *knock wood* fine now. Dr. Alghrim loves my rats and prescribes both traditional medicine and natural supplements to support the function of medications like antibiotics. She respects my rat knowledge and doesn't mind if I ask a lot of questions or ask for a different concentration of medication than she originally prescribes.

Doc John and his son Dr. Pallaoro, DVM: Father and son team of vets who see my horse for anything requiring him to visit the clinic. The son, Gary, is an excellent surgeon and allowed me to observe and take photos of my horse's knee surgery. Doc John (nobody calls him by his last name), the father, is an excellent diagnostician, took beautiful X-rays of the knee (and printed off a copy for me), and is very slow and gentle with the horses. He also respects my hunches and suspicions about my horse, and will obligingly go in the direction I suggest if I feel he might be on the wrong track with his preferred testing. Sometimes he's right, sometimes I am, but either way, my horse gets the bset care, which is important!

Dr. Hall, DVM: My small animal (except rats and turtle) surgeon of choice. He is very experienced and willing to take time to explain every facet of a procedure to me. He has never gotten annoyed with my need to know every tiny detail of anything someone is doing that involves cutting one of my animals open, and in fact says he appreciates my level of involvement in my pets' care. He does not hesitate to recommend the best treatment available as well as preventive care, regardless of cost-- he doesn't always recommend the most expensive or the cheapest treatment option, only the best in his opinion. His surgeries are fast and clean, and I've never seen an animal walk out of his surgery with stitches a millimeter larger than necessary. I don't get to observe his work in person because his operating room is too small for anyone besides the essential team members, but from what I have seen in pictures and in terms of scarring (or lack thereof) afterward, he does beautiful work.

Dr. Kevin Fitzgerald, DVM, and the whole team at Alameda East: I lucked out in living only 45 minutes from the Animal Planet Emergency Vets hospital. They are very caring with all my pets and with me, and were so kind when I lost my Beauregard there at 3 AM. I'm really glad to live within driving distance of what I consider to be among the top emergency hospitals in the country. They also specialize in sports medicine, which will be important when my dog enters flyball and agility training soon; should he sustain a sports injury (not unlikely with his short little Corgi legs) he'll be going there.

Dr. Donna: Sees my dog for non-emergency, non-surgery reasons. She goes by Dr. Donna, and I don't even know her last name, but she and Augustin love each other. She always has a treat in her pocket, and she respects my feeding philosophy, unlike many vets who oppose feeding any raw meat to pets. She can see the results in his coat and dental health, as well as his overall vigor and intelligence, so she supports my feeding plan fully, which I'm thankful for after hearing lots of horror stories about vets who blame any problem that comes up with a raw-fed dog on the raw diet! I haven't had to see her for anything besides checkups yet, thank goodness, but I feel very confident in her abilities, as she assisted Dr. Pallaoro in my horse's knee surgery which I observed.


That was LOOOONG but I wanted to give you a good idea of the factors that go into a decision to choose a vet for me-- and show you that it's totally okay to jump from vet to vet for different things! All my vets know I use a ton of different vets, and it's not like they get jealous or upset if I want a second opinion. Any vet who does, well, run from that clinic!

[Amethyst Hunter]

Well, the vet did neither. She more or less had her vet's assistant hold our pet down with some kevlar gloves* and just wrestled the cat and cut the claw off below the quick. They then sealed the wound with silver nitrate, I think.

Now, the cat won't even let us touch his paws to clip his nails again. He fights it tooth and nail. I'm thinking of going to a different vet in the future but I want to make sure I'm not being sucky in doing so. Was I wrong to expect an anesthesia of some sort? Should I have requested it? I didn't because I didn't want it to look like I was telling the vet how to do her job, but overall I'm not best pleased over this visit.

There's a difference between telling someone how to do their job and asking that they respect your wishes. Anesthesia probably wouldn't have been necessary, but IMO they could have handled that with a little more sensitivity. Small wonder your poor kitty hates having his nails trimmed now, after that experience!

(Tip for anyone thinking of cutting or removing claws: Cutting the quick - the red/pink part of the nail (YMMV; some claws are *black* which makes it harder to see) - is akin to clipping a human's fingernails too short, and removing the claw entirely is akin to chopping off a human fingertip at the topmost knuckle! Both are incredibly painful and I strongly discourage total removal not only for this reason but also because in most cases a pet with removed claws will resort to biting as a means of defense)

If you are overall satisfied with this vet, you may request a discussion of future nail-trimmings or the like, and if you feel you can still trust them, you may decide to stay with them. I personally would switch, not only because of the claw-trimming but because of the unclean gloves: sanitary issues galore! So you are well within your rights to consider searching out a new vet, and don't be shy about asking questions you feel are relevant to your pet's well-being. A good vet will respect your concerns and take the time to answer questions to your satisfaction.

It will take a long time - if ever (again, YMMV; some animals have awfully long memories) - for kittycat to feel comfortable with having his nails trimmed again. Probably the best way to try and neutralize some of his fears is to get him to associate nail-clipping with pleasant experiences. I do my cats' claws occasionally and I always give them a lot of pettings and a few treats as positive reinforcement for having held still (well, as still as cats will hold as a general rule; most of them don't like having their feet messed with but the most mine will ever do is struggle some - they've never freaked out or thrown fits) long enough for me to trim the claws. Main thing to remember is to have (a lot of) patience, go slowly and speak to them in gentle tones. Never get upset or punish them when they don't want to cooperate - that just ups their anxiety and confuses them.

Good luck. :)

[flybye023]

I actually have mixed feelings about the glove thing. What happened was that they had three pairs in the clinic but all three were needed. The reason these gloves gave such problems is that they were still wet from being cleaned. Also, if the vet's reaction had been "oops, sorry, tee-hee" I would have been upset but she and the assistant were absolutely mortified. They also held the cat's head so he wouldn't lick himself until they were able to clean him off with some medical grade wet wipes.

Also, his claw had actually grown into the pad about 1/4 of an inch, so about like if you had a really big splinter embedded in the pad of your thumb.

It will take a long time - if ever (again, YMMV; some animals have awfully long memories) - for kittycat to feel comfortable with having his nails trimmed again. Probably the best way to try and neutralize some of his fears is to get him to associate nail-clipping with pleasant experiences. I do my cats' claws occasionally and I always give them a lot of pettings and a few treats as positive reinforcement for having held still (well, as still as cats will hold as a general rule; most of them don't like having their feet messed with but the most mine will ever do is struggle some - they've never freaked out or thrown fits) long enough for me to trim the claws. Main thing to remember is to have (a lot of) patience, go slowly and speak to them in gentle tones. Never get upset or punish them when they don't want to cooperate - that just ups their anxiety and confuses them.


Yeah, he always kind of fought it and we were always sure to give him plenty of kitty treats and catnip but I'm not sure we'll ever be able to do it ourselves again.:(

[PepperElf]

and... another recommendation for kitty nails... many pet stores offer grooming services.

my sister's family agreed to take my cat while i'm in japan, but because of family allergies she gets the cat groomed about once every couple of months or so. the lady who grooms my kitty...not only does she make him look clean and neat, she keeps his claws neatly trimmed.

Plus...she was more than happy to give my sister advice, such as what products would help keep his dander down, etc...even if the products were carried by a different company.


the key note is.... find someone who actually CARES about your furry family.

Vets who use bloody tools do not sound like they give a shit. And I would recommend reporting them to the ASPCA.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I actually have mixed feelings about the glove thing...if the vet's reaction had been "oops, sorry, tee-hee" I would have been upset but she and the assistant were absolutely mortified.

That's good to hear, at least. In the event you decide to stick with 'em you may want to ask the current vet's if they have any specific recommendations as to nail-clipping. Pet stores with grooming shops (like Red Dog Blue Cat store) do do nail trims, but they *are* (in most cases, assuming management is sensible enough about it) authorized to refuse any animal that acts aggressively towards them (safety issues, both the pet's and the employees'), and they may not be as experienced or skilled (depending on their training and level of ability) in doing so, so the chances of nicking a nail are a little higher. YMMV, again.

I once worked at such a store and got to be very good at nail trims; we only took dogs for the washings but once in a while I would get to trim rabbit, ferret (fun! Furry snakes that wiggle a lot, basically) and cat nails. I only ever had to turn down one dog once, and that was because 1) he was a HUGE dog that not even 4 - 5 people (all except me were male) could hold still long enough, and 2) HATED having his nails done and was EXTREMELY aggressive (attempting to bite, snarling) about it when we tried. (I at one point even attempted to put a soft padded velcro muzzle on him; we could use those to keep snippier dogs from biting - but Big Dog ripped it right off) I had to tell the owner that the only way it could be done was if she took him to a vet's (which she didn't really want to do as she was concerned about how much they might charge, which is why she brought him to RDBC store, but fortunately she wasn't a SC) where sedation was probably going to factor into it, being that this dog was so aggro about nail trims (which the owner had warned us upfront about).

Yeah, he always kind of fought it and we were always sure to give him plenty of kitty treats and catnip but I'm not sure we'll ever be able to do it ourselves again.:(

You can do it (if you're so inclined to, that is - some folks are understandably nervous about giving nail trims themselves), it'll just take some time and practice, is all. Worst case scenario (sedation at the vet's aside) is that you take a big thick bath towel and wrap kitty firmly (not tightly, just firm enough that he can't escape easily) in it, leaving out only the paw that you're working on at the time. This will effectively restrain him without hurting him or you.

[Seshat]

I agree with the towel trick, and the pettings and treats when you do clip his claws.

My own immobilisation thing for my cats is my own body. I pet them, crouching down on the floor with them, then I tuck them between my legs, with my feet preventing them from going backwards, my legs stopping them from going sideways, and my body on top of them but with no weight on them. I keep talking to them gently, and keep them sort of snuggled along their whole body with my whole body. Plus, if they get too stressy about it, I let them go and do their claws another time.

It probably won't work with your cat until he's a lot calmer about his trimmings, but it might be a good stage for after two-people-and-a-towel is no longer needed, but before it's a simple thing you can do sitting beside him.

In the meantime, I suggest that during petting-loving-time, you handle his paws. He sits on your lap and gets strokes and lovings, and you quietly move your hand down to touch his foreleg. Just for a half-second, and just the foreleg not the paw, then you go back to lovings. Once he accepts that, touch his foreleg for longer. And just keep pushing it gently, never more than he accepts, never enough to make him stop purring, until he lets you handle his paws enough to do whatever you need to do. That might take weeks, months or years, depending on how traumatised he is.

Since I heard of that trick, I've used it on all my animals. I also check everything else that will give me a signal that something's wrong, or that the vet will check: eyes, ears, nose, gums, paws and butt. Tummy rubs and back rubs and all-over body massages let me know if they've got any sore spots.

Be aware that he might have developed a phobia of the vet: one of our kitties has. She's absolutely fine until she gets into the examination room, then she's Kitty From Hell. We've never figured out what caused it (she used to be a good patient); but she just panics and can't be calmed down. We accept the risk of death and get her sedated for her vet visits now.
Oddly, when she was really sick a few months ago, she didn't panic. It turned out that that was a very, very bad sign. :( She's mostly okay now - but she's also 15, so she's an elderly kitty. Spends most of her time sleeping near one of us. We miss her hunting our ankles.

Oh - and yes. Find a vet who listens to his pet owners. And keep control of the situation in the clinic: the vet is an employee of yours. Listen to his advice, make suggestions (such as anaesthesia!), be guided by his expertise, but in the end its your pet, and your money, and your decision. You have every right to dictate that a painful procedure be done under some sort of sedation or pain-killing or awareness-killing medication.