If I ever go bald, my nieces will be to blame....

[Jester]

So my eldest niece Princess has a new boyfriend.

A 21 year old Marine.

She's 17, and in high school.

Yeah.

Again, yeah.

So anyway, this guy actually has been mentioned here on CS before, in this thread (http://customerssuck.com/board/showthread.php?t=24234). No, he's not Dick Head, but his friend, Nice Guy.

So I met Nice Guy last night at the magic bar. And yes, he is nice and polite and respectful.

He's still a fucking 21 year old Marine dating my 17 year old niece!!!! Anyone else have a problem with this besides me?

And yes, I know that there are times when this kind of age difference is not that big a deal. Hell, my parents were 19 and 16 when they met. I briefly dated a 15 year old when I was 19, and when I was 21 was myself briefly involved with a 17 year old. But none of them were my nieces. Yes, that is hypocritical. When it comes to my nieces, sometimes I will be hypocritical, as many parents are with their children. "Do as I say, not as I do/did."

In any case, I took NG aside for a brief "chat." I told him that, of course, with the age difference I had some concerns. He understood that. I also told him that if he didn't do anything stupid, he had nothing to worry about from me, and that I respected the Marines. I also told him, however, that I'd piss all over the Marines, Army, Air Force and Marines before I allowed someone to harm or take advantage of my nieces, as they're the closest thing to children I have.

I also told him that if he in any way was violent towards or hurt Princess, military training or not, I would break bones he didn't even know he had. And that heading quickly towards the Georgia state line would be the LEAST he would have to do to have any chance to escape my wrath.

Again, NG was nice and polite and respectful, and seemed to agree with everything I said, though he kept trying to interrupt me to allay my concerns. In a way, that was good, because otherwise I would have thought he was TOO nice and polite and respectful. Princess's mom so far has approved of NG. I have told Princess that, for the moment, I am withholding judgment.

I don't like this. He seems like a nice guy. But a. he is a 21 year old Marine dating my teenage (and underaged) niece. And b. his only friend that I have met is clearly a dickhead, which NG himself readily admits to. Like it or not, your friends DO reflect on you. Not that you are the same as they are, but people will often judge you for the company you keep.

So, am I overreacting here? Am I justified in my concern? Do you think I really struck terror into the heart of this yahoo, or was he just playing along and saying all the right things so he could get jiggy with Princess? Comments? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

"Ooo Ra" indeed. *grumble grumble*

[Sandman]

You are justified, but if nothing sexual has happened, then the relationship is not illegal.

[Jester]

I'm not really worried about the legalities of it, to be honest.

Though of course, if he does anything stupid, he should HOPE the cops find him before I do......

[tropicsgoddess]

Jester, when I was 15, my ex was 18 when we started dating on and off until I dumped him for the man that is now my fiancé (he is 6 months older than me). I can understand your concern with the fact that your niece is still a minor and her marine BF is a full-blown legal adult. Have a talk with her and make sure that she knows what she's getting herself into and that she and her boyfriend will make the right decisions and not do something rash,stupid or worse...get themselves into something they can't get out of. I have some tween/teenage cousins so trust me when I say this: don't go the "do as i say not as i do/did route with her if you did the same thing...it will bite you in the ass and she will not like you for that. Just let her know from a man's eyes about dating younger chicks and some of the things that happens in those types of relationships.

[Jester]

Oh, I've never told my nieces what they can and can't do, with certain exceptions, and I haven't taken that tack now. The ONLY thing I required of my niece was that I meet with NG, which she (grudgingly) complied with.

And she has pointed out the 18 year old that took her to prom a couple years ago when she was 15 is now himself 21. That doesn't matter to me. At the time, they were both in high school, damnit. And he wasn't a freakin' Marine. Now, before anyone gets bent out of shape, I have nothing against Marines, and as I said already, I respect them. BUT...Marines tend to be a bit more "experienced" in various things than, well, someone I want dating my underaged niece, if that makes sense.

Again, I am reserving judgment for now, but keeping a close eye on the situation. The good news for now is that as of 6 this morning, NG and his ship sailed out of KW for a while. No more panic attacks on my part until they get back into port. At which point I shall grumble disapprovingly some more, I am sure. :lol:

[blas]

I understand Jester. It seems hypocritical, but it isn't. It's your neice. You have every right to be protective!

On the other hand, would any of the Florida CSers on here care to meet up with my 39 year old cousin Jeff and smack some sense into him? He's dating a 20 year old "struggling" model. Jeff sells yachts and makes a lot of money. Can you see what I'm getting at here?

[Mr. Rager!]

He's still a fucking 21 year old Marine dating my 17 year old niece!!!! Anyone else have a problem with this besides me?

And yes, I know that there are times when this kind of age difference is not that big a deal. Hell, my parents were 19 and 16 when they met. I briefly dated a 15 year old when I was 19, and when I was 21 was myself briefly involved with a 17 year old. But none of them were my nieces. Yes, that is hypocritical. When it comes to my nieces, sometimes I will be hypocritical, as many parents are with their children. "Do as I say, not as I do/did."



He's nice and respectful to her, you should be happy. 4 years is not that much of an age difference. (I find this easy to say because I dated a girl 14 years my senior, and am now dating a girl 8 years my senior) She could be with someone her age, and he may or may not be polite and respectful. You can't protect her from anything, and when it comes to matters of the heart... as long as he's being good to her, stay out of it. We all need to learn... that's dating.

[Bright_Star]

She's underage..CASE CLOSED.

[Mr. Rager!]

She's underage..CASE CLOSED.

Case NOT closed.

(1) A person 24 years of age or older who engages in sexual activity with a person 16 or 17 years of age commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/Sec082.HTM), s. 775.083 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/Sec083.HTM), or s. 775.084. (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/Sec084.HTM) As used in this section, "sexual activity" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another; however, sexual activity does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.

Florida Law, baby. He's 21, she's 17.

[blas]

I guess it just depends on the guy's intentions. That's most likely what Jester is worried about.

Sure, it's no big deal these days that 18-20something year old guys are dating 15-17 year olds. If it's all innocent and there's real chemistry, that's fine and dandy. But let's not be naive here. Do you think they really wait until the girl is 18 to have sex? I doubt it.

Just to provide some insight, when I was 14-17, I dated a lot of guys over 18. Some were even upwards of 24. Back then I thought "Oh cool, older guys!", but nowadays, I look back on it and think......you know, in all honesty, why would a guy in his 20s want to be hanging out with high school girls? What kind of good intentions could he have? Probably not very good ones.

Now, 17 is a little iffy, because she's almost 18 and it's not like she's still 14 or 15 or even 16. That's not as bad. Still kind of makes me wonder, but doesn't make my eyebrows cringe as bad.

[iradney]

It all depends on the maturity of the people involved. When I was 17, I was also involved with a 21 year old. But I was the mature one in the relationship.
Now, I'm involved with a man two years younger than me, and I swear he's more mature than me (most of the time anyway, till it gets to housework *grumble*)

As long as he treats Princess with respect and is appropriately afraid of you, you should be fine :)

[kibbles]

Case NOT closed.



Florida Law, baby. He's 21, she's 17.

ITA 100%, case not closed at all!

[Greenday]

Hell, when I was 17, one of my friends was dating a 25 year old. How bout them apples, Jester?

17 is borderline. Like if she had JUST turned 17, I'd have more of a problem than if she is nearly 18. Also, if he is nearly 22, then I'd have more cause to worry than if he had just turned 21.

[crazylegs]

Jester,

You are protective of your neices, and thats fantastic to have the family support. She is nearly however a grown adult (legally speaking anyhow), I think what concerns you most is that he is leading her on and leave her heartbroken or otherwise.

However.

Not all Marines (US or otherwise) have merely joined the Corps just to get a spiffy uniform to impress the ladies, some have a real and continued desire to serve their country and do the best the physically and mentally can.

Support them as much as your brain/heart/conscience allows, if it all falls over in a few weeks be her shoulder to cry on and if he does anything silly well, I'm sure you can be creative in how you break someones kneecaps.

She is a teenage girl, she WILL get drunk, she WILL date innapropriate guys and one day her beau WILL bring her home on the back of a motorbike. It is, to a certain extent, to be expected!

(I'm not saying that Marines or any Armed Forces make innapropriate spouses, that connection isn't there, quite a few members of my family have served their country)

[DarthRetard]

Ex-Marine stepping in here:

You oughta be goddamned impressed she's dating a Marine. Marines are typically some of the most disciplined, respectful people you'll ever meet. I know, I've been there and done that, and they instill discipline and respect in you from they day you set foot on the yellow footprints at Parris Island.

It's good that you're protective, but don't smother. Sometimes that can harm the relationship you know. Try to get to know him. If she writes him, write him a letter too, and see how much you can learn about him and how he deals with his daily activities, etc. That can tell you a lot about them, you know.

Finally, Jester, I love you, but don't EVER again take the phrase "Oorah" in vain again.

[rerant]

It's not a big deal. Back when I was 17 my boyfriend was 21. Actually we got together when I was 16, as he was at my 17th birthday dinner.
So long as the guy isn't a creep it's not really an issue. I mean if he was 35 and she was 17 then yeah I would say that's wrong, but it's not like 21 year-old guy can't be on the same level as her.

[BookstoreEscapee]

"Do as I say, not as I do/did."

This is my mom's favorite phrase.

Then again, I'm 32 and she didn't use that attitude in raising us as kids. She only started saying in jest after we were old enough to know better. :)

[Ree]

Our 21 year old daughter is dating a 35 year old.
When I found out the age difference, I had concerns, but in this case, she has known him for close to 9 years. I had no idea he was as old as he was. He always seemed younger, but he's not immature by any means.

Our 17 year old foster daughter is dating a 21 year old. I wondered why a guy that age would be hanging out with kids in their teens, but when I met him, I realized he was really immature.

Age is a number, and it really depends on the people.

Just as there are immature 21 year olds, there are very mature 17 year olds.

It's a bit of a double standard and more than a little hypocritical for you to be criticizing this young man for things that you, yourself, did, even if it is your niece involved.

[BookstoreEscapee]

My last boyfriend is 11 years older than me. We were 27 and 38 when we met. My mom thought he was too old for me.

Oddly, though, the guy I dated before him was 3 years younger than me, and in the beginning when I expressed concerns about the age difference, my mom would remind me of her friend who is 9 years older than her husband and they've been married for decades. So if I dated someone 9 years younger (which would be a 23yo) would be fine but 11 years older is too old? OK, ma, sure. :D

(Not to say there aren't mature 23 year olds, I've known a few myself; but really, I couldn't get my head around that at this point in my life.)

[blas]

I think the reason some guys who are my age prefer the younger ones because they're easy. Like I said before, high school girls love older guys. They think it's "so cool" that older guys like them.

Note: I didn't say ALL guys my age like younger girls because they're easy. But it does make sense. Although I'm still young enough to be considered "easy" or "stupid" myself. But at the same time, a lot of girls my age are very serious about college or work, the way I'm serious about work and making money and being independent, and I think some boys just want some simplicity and naiviety. Not to say there aren't guys who aren't serious about school...but some girls my age can come across as overly serious and almost abrasive......that's why last time around, I dated a 25 year old, so I could find a guy who had established himself a little bit. Even though he was a dud, he wasn't all about the parties and the underage girls anymore.

[Saydrah]

Come on now, Jester, you flirt shamelessly with ladies just a few years more than half your age. Give the poor boy a chance to prove himself.

I understand your concerns. Really, I do. But give the lad a chance. He's done nothing wrong so far.

If he does? Unleash the wrath of an angry god on him. But if not? Be glad your niece has been raised to be attracted to someone who's mature, who has a career and loves his country, who will be able to go to college, and who is willing to talk with respect to her uncle.

She COULD date a 17 year old who rides a motorcycle, does drugs, and encourages her to drop out and disrespect her family. But the smart young lady her parents, with help from you, have raised is dating someone who has made a committment to military service and who respects her and her family.

[Becks]

She is a teenage girl, she WILL get drunk, she WILL date innapropriate guys and one day her beau WILL bring her home on the back of a motorbike. It is, to a certain extent, to be expected!

When I was a teenager, yes I got drunk. I think I was 19. Dating inappropriate guys? Did that, too.

However, I never was brought home on the back of a motorcycle. None of the guys I knew had enough money to own a Harley. :lol:

[Jester]

Oh, so much to respond to.....

He's nice and respectful to her, you should be happy. 4 years is not that much of an age difference.

So far as I KNOW, he is nice and respectful to her...SO FAR. And 4 years is not that much of an age difference.....except when one of the people is underaged and my niece.

...why would a guy in his 20s want to be hanging out with high school girls? What kind of good intentions could he have? Probably not very good ones.

You never know. He is not all that mature for a 21 year old, despite being a
Marine. Then again, she is not all that mature as a 17 year old. This is not me being biased because she is my niece....she ISN'T very mature for a 17 year old. (In contrast, her younger sister is VERY mature for a 14 year old.) Perhaps he has good intentions. Who knows? I am not going to assume that JUST because he is 21 and she is 17, he is up to no good. I will, as I told him, let his actions speak for themselves.

[QUOTE=iradney;276016]As long as he treats Princess with respect and is appropriately afraid of you, you should be fine :)

The first seems (so far) to be so. The second....I'm not sure how seriously he is taking me, or how afraid he is. We'll see.

Hell, when I was 17, one of my friends was dating a 25 year old. How bout them apples, Jester?

17 is borderline. Like if she had JUST turned 17, I'd have more of a problem than if she is nearly 18. Also, if he is nearly 22, then I'd have more cause to worry than if he had just turned 21.

Them apples? This is not a contest. And what you did was what you did....but I was not your uncle at the time.

And she DID just turn 17, December 29th, actually.

I think what concerns you most is that he is leading her on and leave her heartbroken or otherwise.

What concerns me is that he is 21 and a Marine, and she is barely 17 and not exactly worldly. I don't think he is violent or abusive, though if he is, SHE has said she would hurt him herself....she says she learned from the whole TD thing. Of course, if he got violent with her, once she did whatever it is she would do (or try to do), I would finish mopping up. :devil: I don't think he is leading her on...but then, he may be in it for different reasons than she is.

Not all Marines (US or otherwise) have merely joined the Corps just to get a spiffy uniform to impress the ladies...

Never said they did. As I have said repeatedly here (and to him), I respect the Marines overall, though of course every group has its bad apples. There are, as well know, some bad Marines too.

...and if he does anything silly well, I'm sure you can be creative in how you break someones kneecaps.

Creativity is my middle name. Especially when it comes to vindictive overprotective violence.

She is a teenage girl, she WILL get drunk, she WILL date innapropriate guys and one day her beau WILL bring her home on the back of a motorbike. It is, to a certain extent, to be expected!

Yes, it is. But with her, not so much. She is a good kid, doesn't do drugs, barely drinks, for the most part dates decent guys, and is a bit of a princess (hence the nickname). This is not me putting her on a pedestal, mind you....my other nieces HAVE done some of the stuff you said, if not all of it. For the most part, though, Princess has been pretty well-behaved and pretty damn responsible. And this guy may or may not be inappropriate. His age and position in life, though, do give me pause for concern.

You oughta be goddamned impressed she's dating a Marine. Marines are typically some of the most disciplined, respectful people you'll ever meet. I know, I've been there and done that, and they instill discipline and respect in you from they day you set foot on the yellow footprints at Parris Island.

I am impressed by people and their actions, not their titles, jobs, or training. What Marines typically are has nothing to do with what NG specifically is or is not. Some people may think that a Marine is a "good catch" or some such, but I am far more interested in my niece being involved with a good, decent person and a caring guy. And just being a Marine does not necessarily make one so. You know what the Marines did for you, and that's great. But you are not NG, nor he you. Not all Marines are the same. Remember that. Perhaps he is what he seems, and is in fact a decent dude. And if so, great. Then I have no problem with him. But if he isn't.......

It's good that you're protective, but don't smother.

To my credit, I generally don't smother, and don't think I am doing so here, either. I enforced the rule I have with my nieces of meeting the guy, I met him, I talked to him, I laid down the law to him, and now, as long as he is a decent guy and doesn't do anything stupid involving my niece, I am going to sit back and let them enjoy their relationship. As I told him, as I tell every boy that gets involved with any of my nieces, as long as he doesn't do anything stupid, he has absolutely nothing to worry about from me.

So long as the guy isn't a creep it's not really an issue. I mean if he was 35 and she was 17 then yeah I would say that's wrong, but it's not like 21 year-old guy can't be on the same level as her.

Perhaps he can be on the same level as her, and she him. We shall see. As for him being a creep, for both her sake and in a different way his sake, I hope he isn't.

Age is a number, and it really depends on the people.

Just as there are immature 21 year olds, there are very mature 17 year olds.

Yes, it depends on the people. I have addressed this above. Both seem rather immature for their ages, but as you said, it does seem a little odd for a 21 year old to want to be involved with a high schooler.

It's a bit of a double standard and more than a little hypocritical for you to be criticizing this young man for things that you, yourself, did, even if it is your niece involved.

I'll be hypocritical. That being said, the 17 year old girl I was involved with when I was 21 was, how shall I say this, rather mature for her age. Also, I DID meet her father, and he DID approve of me. After all, I am a real nice guy. :angel:

My last boyfriend is 11 years older than me. We were 27 and 38 when we met. My mom thought he was too old for me.

An 11 year age difference when both people are adults is a completely different thing, and you know it. My last girlfriend was 12 years younger than me, but we were both adults. You cannot realistically compare what a 27 year old woman does with what a 17 year old high school girl does.

Come on now, Jester, you flirt shamelessly with ladies just a few years more than half your age. Give the poor boy a chance to prove himself.

Yes, I do. And those girls are of legal age, are more mature than my niece, and are NOT my niece. And frankly, my niece flirts shamelessly with guys my age, and they with her. I have no issue with flirting. She isn't flirting with this guy, she is DATING him. Huge difference.

I understand your concerns. Really, I do. But give the lad a chance. He's done nothing wrong so far.

I am giving him a chance. He is still upright and breathing, isn't he?

If he does? Unleash the wrath of an angry god on him. But if not? Be glad your niece has been raised to be attracted to someone who's mature, who has a career and loves his country, who will be able to go to college, and who is willing to talk with respect to her uncle.

If not, as I have said, I have no issue with him. Otherwise, "wrath of an angry god" is a good way to describe the consequences.

She COULD date a 17 year old who rides a motorcycle, does drugs, and encourages her to drop out and disrespect her family. But the smart young lady her parents, with help from you, have raised is dating someone who has made a committment to military service and who respects her and her family.

True....but we have yet to know if this one respects her or her family. That is what I am concerned about. Events in my life have taught me very well that things and people are not always what they appear to be, seem to be, or pretend to be.

[Mr. Rager!]

Wow Jester, so much you replied to. I know that you're stubborn as hell, but you're not the keeper of hearts. And as long as he's treating her kindly, don't worry about it. Your concern should be for her happiness... and if she's happy with someone who is older than her, but treating her with respect, you should be happy.

What you're displaying is a form of a controlling behavior. And really, the law where you're living says this is perfectly legal.

[Jester]

No, I am not the keeper of hearts. I am a concerned uncle. And as I have said repeatedly, as long as he's treating her kindly, I won't worry (much) about it. If she's happy, I'm happy. End of story. I don't know how many times I have said that, but it bears repeating: if he is cool and decent and treats her right, there ISN'T a problem. Never said there was. I am not trying to control anyone, merely protect my niece from a POTENTIAL issue. Nothing more. Seriously. :angel:

[Chazzie]

Not to pry, but personally I'd hope you trust your niece's judgment a bit more. I'm 17 myself, and I've seen all sorts of different people (You could beg to differ). I feel at my age I could judge someone's character really accurately- and have proven so many times.

It's good to be protective, but this just seems outright paranoid. Are you afraid he'll take your niece away from you? =P

And if you think he's being 'too polite', it might just be because he really IS scared of you. XD

[Jester]

I do trust her judgment. She is a good kid and usually makes good decisions. However, that does not mean I am not going to be protective by meeting said older boyfriend and having a chat with him, and letting him know where things stand. Which is all I have done. I am not afraid he is going to "take her away from me," as you said. I want nothing but the best for my nieces, and want them to be happy....and that includes in romance.

As far as him being too polite, he could be really polite and respectful, he could be full of shit and just saying what he thinks I want to hear, or he could be the Eddie Haskell type, just kissing up to the authority figure in the situation.

As I said to my niece, and as I have said here repeatedly, I am for the moment reserving judgment and seeing what he DOES rather than what he SAYS.

[Greenday]

Them apples? This is not a contest. And what you did was what you did....but I was not your uncle at the time.

And she DID just turn 17, December 29th, actually.

My friend was the one, who was 17, and was dating a 25 year old, not me.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. I'd be pretty darn skeptical too. I'm protective of my sister and she's just over three years older than I am. It's hard to trust people these days, but you gotta let people live their lives, and if it turns out he does hurt her, then feel free to step in and kick the crap out of him. Otherwise, just gotta let them be.

[Jester]

That is all I've said I would do. Repeatedly. I enforced the rule about meeting the boy, had the usual talk with said boy, and then the only other thing I've done is post my concerns here. I have not been hounding her or him at all, and I have no idea why almost everyone here seems to think I am practically locking my niece in a tower to keep away the big bad Marine. I am merely concerned, and I was expressing my concern here, nothing more, nothing less. If I sound defensive, it's because I AM defensive at this point. I have repeatedly said that if this guy is a good guy and does nothing untoward, he has nothing to worry about, and I mean it. And yet people here keep saying "you need to let her live her life" etc. etc. So yeah, I'm defensive and a bit irked about the whole thing.

The funny thing is that if it was one of YOUR kids or nieces or whatever, most of you would be expressing the same concern as me. Many would be flat out up in arms, which I am not. Just concerned, worried, and watching the situation with interest. Nothing more. I came here to express those concerns, and have for the most part been pooh poohed and told to chill out and not be so overprotective. Maybe I am overprotective, but I have not locked my niece up in a chastity belt or told her she could not date this guy or anything of the sort. I have merely expressed my concern both to her and to you folks about a 17 year old high school student who is mostly innocent dating a 21 year old Marine who probably, by definition, is not.

I've said what I wanted to say. My concerns have not changed. They remain the same, and as I have repeatedly said, I am going to watch this guy's actions, as actions speak louder than words, no matter how polite or respectful those words are.

I'm done here.

[Greenday]

I'm not saying you need to back off, you've done what I've always done to my sister's boyfriends. You gave your talk and that's all. If anything, the guy probably learned that her family really cares about her.

[DarthRetard]

I have merely expressed my concern both to her and to you folks about a 17 year old high school student who is mostly innocent dating a 21 year old Marine who probably, by definition, is not.

I'm done here.

And what, Jester, pray tell, is that definition? Twice now in this thread you've blatantly insulted my beloved Corps, and I warned you the first time. Now, we have a serious problem. Marines are by definition not innocent? No, of course not, they're more mature than most men their age because they had to presence of mind to put their life on the line, and make the ultimate sacrifice if need be. Is it cause he's 21? Then that's ageism and equally ignorant. You need to be taken down a couple notches in that aspect, honestly. The oorah comment was out of line, and even though i said something, no moderator, even though posting in this thread, made mention of it. And now I'm done with it as well. I like you Jester, you're eloquent, usually funny, and you're a no bullshit guy. I appreciate that about you, but you need to get your head out of the clouds on that one aspect.

[gbm85]

Let's tone it down a bit, shall we?

The oorah comment was out of line, and even though i said something, no moderator, even though posting in this thread, made mention of it.

Perhaps you can take that as a sign that nothing needed to be said.

[myswtghst]

Yes, it is. But with her, not so much. She is a good kid, doesn't do drugs, barely drinks, for the most part dates decent guys, and is a bit of a princess (hence the nickname). This is not me putting her on a pedestal, mind you....my other nieces HAVE done some of the stuff you said, if not all of it. For the most part, though, Princess has been pretty well-behaved and pretty damn responsible. And this guy may or may not be inappropriate. His age and position in life, though, do give me pause for concern.

I think that you actually said it all right here - the fact that she hasn't fallen prey to common teenage mistakes/vices means that she does, most likely have a level head on her shoulders. So, as others have said, give her a chance - and let her know, as I'm sure you have, that you're there for her if things fall apart in any way.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. I'd be pretty darn skeptical too. I'm protective of my sister and she's just over three years older than I am. It's hard to trust people these days, but you gotta let people live their lives, and if it turns out he does hurt her, then feel free to step in and kick the crap out of him. Otherwise, just gotta let them be.

This I just had to comment on - my brother is about 3 years younger than me, but he's also 6'5" and 200lbs. So he can be a bit intimidating. And he gets protective over me. I think it's nice to know I have someone looking out for me, and I appreciate it when he's not overly in my business, but just lets me know I've got him if I need him. :)

[BookstoreEscapee]

An 11 year age difference when both people are adults is a completely different thing, and you know it. My last girlfriend was 12 years younger than me, but we were both adults. You cannot realistically compare what a 27 year old woman does with what a 17 year old high school girl does.

You're absolutely right. I was more commenting on age differences in general. But consider the fact that in a year (or presumably less), she will be a legal adult. Will it be different when she is 18 and he is 22 (incidentally the ages at which my best friend and her ex began dating; they were together for the better part of a decade).

(Please don't think I don't know where you're coming from here, I totally do.)

[Seshat]

The oorah comment was out of line, and even though i said something, no moderator, even though posting in this thread, made mention of it.

Perhaps you can take that as a sign that nothing needed to be said.

Or, as in my case, that it went totally over my head. 'oorah' is a random collection of letters to me. For all I can tell, a cat walked on Jester's keyboard.

I'm a moderator, not a psychic nor a military (I presume) encyclopedia.

The lack of psychic ability in moderators is another of the reasons to use the handy 'report' button. Top of the post, right side, exclamation mark on the icon.

[Ree]

Jester, you seem to be getting a bit impatient and irritable over some of the responses here.

Not sure if you're aware, but a lot of people just respond to the OP and don't actually read anyone else's comments, and maybe that's why you keep getting similar advice to which you have already responded.

Frankly, based on your reaction to some of that advice, I really don't know why you posted this, or what you expected everyone's response to be.

You seem upset that not everyone is commiserating, but have chosen to do a bit of lecturing about your attitude.

CS members are a very helpful and caring bunch, and no matter what, they're going to offer their best advice and impressions.

If you don't want open dialogue or advice, then don't make posts like this. :shrug:

[ArenaBoy]

4 years, yes it's something to worry about (Not that big of a deal if you ask me) but:

My friend's sister S dated a guy who was 20/21 when she was 17. Friend had his doubts for these reasons:

This guy was the brother of a teammate of mine who did some incredibly stupid things. I assumed that S' boyfriend was going to be the same as my teammate ie immature, loud, and perverted. He wasn't. Got on quite well with everyone and treated his girlfriend with respect. Even went and visited S when bad news came along for her.

Secondly, yes she's your niece and you have every right to be concerned but her parents have a more direct influence on this matter. Keep that in mind. Your niece will be 18 in December as you mentioned her birthday. And having you as an uncle I think she can do quite well for herself. But she's going to be an adult whether you like it or not and she's going to do things you won't approve of. Her dating someone out of her age range and that he happens to be out of high school may seem new to you but it isn't. But also keep in mind that said niece is probably doing things you know that in the back of your head she is probably doing but sweep it up to keep that out.

And you want to know something? I knew another teammate who married, (yes married complete with bells and reception) a 24 year old girl a while back. And they're doing fine.

You gave NG a word, nothing more you can do short of going up to him and decking him. If you wanted people commiserating that's fine but don't be surprised that people are going to be opposed to your view and offer their two cents on it. For all we know she could see something in him that you or I can't.

[Slytovhand]

hey Jester.. I hope you're still here and reading....

Anyways.. my 2 cents worth (and, since we're at 92c to the dollar, is worth a bit more than about a year ago...)

Yep - you are being hypocritical - humans do that. Like when mothers do the 'Oh, but my son is a nice boy. He would never hurt anyone'. It's a fact of nature - so doesn't really mean a lot.

But then again - the fact that it has been enacted in law (to an extent, and in some countries/counties/ states) does indicate that it isn't merely hypocritical... that there is a good reason for such a way to feel or act....

I've got no idea about your laws over there, but even so, 17 is usually a very young person (mentally and emotionally) with a few exceptions. But then - so is 21 or 24, and quite often even 35 (I overheard a couple of guys a few months back, and one said he was thinking about what he was going to do when he 'grew up' - and realised at 32, he was grown up! I know that feeling!!!!

I am wondering, though, what your actual concern is...

You've said about the age issue, and then said that it wasn't it. You've mentioned maturity, but we shall see...

And I understand that if he hurts her, you want to hurt him more... but in reality, one or the other (or both) will get hurt at some time during the 'relationship'. Not necessarily physical, but still....

Not that it will really help, but humanities attitudes have changed massively (in what we call 'civilisation' or 'society') over the last few years. After all, only about 50 or 70 years ago, this not only wouldn't be seen as a 'problem' but as a good(ish) thing. And age is merely a number indicating how long a body has been roaming around on this planet. In some countries, they still marry at 12 - and to much much older guys....

TBH - I'd say let her live her life - and even if that means completely stuffing it up, it's her life to do as she chooses (without reason - cos no matter what anyone says - parents, uncles, friends or society) she is going to do whatever she chooses to do. Sorry - but regardless of what we think of our family and friends, sometimes they are idiots, and losers and all the worst that humanity has to evolve (not suggesting she is - just stepping back from the personal side of the issue).

I'd be more inclined to chat to Princess rather than NG - to see what her intentions are. And what she sees in him - perhaps dispel some myths?? Or, better yet, if there is an aunt around, get her to - she'd be more likely to listen and understand. Cos your other alternative IS to lock her up in a tower.....

So - be the guy that your niece turns to when she's hurt and angry - not the one she avoids cos he keeps interfering in her life. And if she's got brains, she will turn to you for advice (and might even listen to it as well...) :D


BE Happy - and keep posting your funny stuff (and the narky stuff as well!)


Slyt

[Amethyst Hunter]

Okay, I'll bite, and be the devil's (sort of) advocate here. Everybody else pretty much covered all the other stuff, so I'll just stick with the one point that resonates with me.

I have to agree with Jester's concern. If it was my family member, I would feel and have done the same thing, because I get what he means and where he's coming from on it. Have, actually, when my younger brother was still unmarried and dating. I'm pretty sure I once told him that if an ex of his (who had a penchant for unpleasant head games) ever tried to mess with him again, I'd break her fucking neck with my bare hands. Other than that, I never messed with my brother's personal life.

That's what us older sibs/relations are for, after all. ;)

[Jester]

And what, Jester, pray tell, is that definition? Twice now in this thread you've blatantly insulted my beloved Corps, and I warned you the first time. Now, we have a serious problem. Marines are by definition not innocent? No, of course not, they're more mature than most men their age because they had to presence of mind to put their life on the line, and make the ultimate sacrifice if need be.

Darth, not once did I ever intend to insult the Marines as a whole, blatantly or otherwise. And in answer to your question, no, Marines are by defintion NOT innocent; as you yourself said, they are more mature than most men their age. Agreed. So here we have a 21 year old who, by your definition of the Marines, is more mature than most 21 year olds....and he is dating my 17 year old niece, who by my definition is less mature than most 17 year olds. NOW do you see why I have an issue with this?

For the nth time, I have nothing but respect for the Marines as a whole. I have said that and said that and said that and said that. I have no idea why you think I have anything BUT respect for them. Saying they aren't innocent is not insulting, it is pretty much true. That doesn't mean I don't respect them. So please stop taking it as such.

You seem upset that not everyone is commiserating, but have chosen to do a bit of lecturing about your attitude.

I can live with people not commiserating, but yes, I was a bit put off by people almost uniformly lecturing me. And yes, I was also a bit put off by people making comments after I had repeatedly said something to the contrary, i.e., my being mostly hands off with my niece and having respect for Marines as a whole, etc. Perhaps you are right that I should not have posted this, but this is how we learn these things.

My apologies to everyone if I seemed a bit short in my last post. I was.....frustrated.

Good news: So far, NG has done nothing yet to warrant my rearranging his internal organs. :D

[Ljt09863]

Jester, as an uncle, you have EVERY right to be concerned. you love your niece, and you want what is best for her. there is NOTHING wrong with that.

they way i see it, is you just kinda have to have faith(which im sure you do) in your niece, that she will stay responsible, and take care of herself. but other than that, you can't do much about it. you can let her know that she can always depend on you if something happens, but seeing as how she is 17, she does need to make her mistakes still. that is part of growing up, as im sure you know. this relationship may not last long. or it may last forever. you never know. but the only thing you can do is support her throughout everything.

also, i don't see where Jester has insulted the marine corps. i do feel that while people in the military are generally good people, that is not the case with everybody in the military. didn't we just have a marine murder his pregnant girlfriend( or do they just suspect him? i haven't been totally following)?*

the way i see it, is ANYBODY can be a bad person, regardless of their military status. i can see somebody being insulted if Jester said, this guy is in the marines, so he can't be good news.... but he didn't. he is concerend about a guy who is dating his younger niece, and this guy just happens to be in the military.


*just to clairfy, i do have respect for those who are willing to put their life on the line for our country. but marines are human too. while i know the military does do psychological screening, somethings aren't found, and a few people who get in the military who shouldn't be, slip by.

[BookstoreEscapee]

So here we have a 21 year old who, by your definition of the Marines, is more mature than most 21 year olds....

Hopefully this translates into having more respect for your niece and where she is at in life...and for her family's concerns as well. Which it sounds like he does...

[Mr. Rager!]

I am not trying to control anyone, merely protect my niece from a POTENTIAL issue. Nothing more. Seriously. :angel:

I understand that, I really do. However, if I were to try and protect all my friends from a potential issue, I wouldn't let them get into cars, snowboard or even walk across the street because they could end up hurt. I know that emotional pain can in a lot of cases can hurt more than physical pain, but sometimes you need to take a chance. It's all part of growing up, it really is.

Don't let it get to you.

[Ree]

I really hope this reaches you, DarthRetard.

I feel terrible about the way things developed in the past day.

I really feel I have to address a couple of your points.

You were fine to go over to fratching and start your thread.
All would have been well if you had simply not started it as a way to attack Jester without repercussions.
That is simply not allowed.

You claim that it's no different than other "Things I Hate" threads recently started on fratching.
As I have already pointed out, you would have a point if you hadn't gone on an attack.
If you had calmly and rationally explained why you were upset, and why the misuse of that phrase upset you, there wouldn't have been a problem.
Toss in the profanity and a veiled attack on a specific member, and that's when we have a problem.

I still feel you were being overly sensitive in regard to Jester's posts.

Believe me, I will be one of the first to admit Jester is opinionated and doesn't care who knows it, or who agrees with him.
I have often given him a good ribbing about it.
In this case, though, I simply do not see where he is insulting the Marines.

Come on, Darth. You have to admit that even saying the word, "Marine" conjures up a certain mental picture, and it certainly isn't a clean cut young man helping Granny cross the street so they can go for tea.
Why fault him for something that has been reinforced in movies, books, and TV dramas for years and years?
Every "war" movie out there has the Marines heading for the local bar to pick up girls and get drunk, resulting in the inevitable bar fight, with the hero waking up the next morning in the arms of the hot young chick who helped him escape from the mayhem, or some other very similar plot cliche.

Marines revel in their tough guy image.
Even the "oorah" war cry that caused so much contention and hard feelings is another way for them to reinforce their "don't fuck with me" image.

Why accuse Jester of attacking and insulting the Marines, when he is simply buying into the stereotype that the Marines have spent years building up?

You asked him not to insult the Marines. He didn't.
All he did was explain his feelings on why he was hesitant to see his young niece with an older guy, who just happened to be a Marine.

It really saddens me at the way this whole thing turned out.

[Jester]

All would have been well if you had simply not started it as a way to attack Jester without repercussions.

:eek: Huh? It seems I missed a committee meeting.......

Believe me, I will be one of the first to admit Jester is opinionated and doesn't care who knows it, or who agrees with him.
I have often given him a good ribbing about it.

Emphasis on "often". :D

Why accuse Jester of attacking and insulting the Marines...

*sigh* I hate when things get blown out of proportion. I especially hate it when things *I* say get blown out of proportion. I especially hate it when something I say gets blown out of proportion and I have to repeatedly repeat myself to a redundant and repetitive degree.

But in this case, it is warranted.

I have nothing but respect for the Marines as a whole.
I have nothing but respect for most Marines individually.
I have nothing but respect for what the Marines stand for and what they do.
I may not like every Marine I meet, but you don't have to like someone to respect them. That being said, I have very much liked most of the Marines I have met.
And I like you, Darth.
My comments about the guy in question being a Marine were not meant in any way, nor should they have been taken in any way, as a slight against the Corps or any of its alumnae such as yourself.
However, Marines are not, as you yourself have pointed out, innocent wallflowers with no knowledge of the world. They are made into mature men by their training, and as such, as pointed out by Ree, often have a reputation of being ladies men. And that reputation is NOT always unwarranted, as it is often earned by Marines in their actions and dalliances with women. And I don't think I really have to spell out why I might not necessarily want my (very innocent and underaged niece) dating a 21 year old member of this group that is known for being ladies men.

Is it possible that this guy is not one of those Marines? Certainly. But I just met him, so I don't know. He is 21, he is a Marine, and she is a young, impressionable, innocent, vulnerable girl. If this were your daughter/sister/niece, you might have the same misgivings I have had. You have known many Marines, and I am pretty sure that there were many of them you would NOT want dating your daughter/sister/niece.

Are there multitudes of wonderful men that the Marines have produced? Unquestionably. I never said otherwise. Any characterization of my comments as saying otherwise would be, quite frankly, incorrect.

This whole thing started as simply my being CONCERNED for my niece. Not up in arms against the Marines, not even up in arms against this one Marine. Concerned. Period. And now it seems I have ignited a holy war for being "anti-Marine." Which I am most certainly not. The fact that I am concerned about my niece dating an older man who has been through Marine training does not in any way denote my disapproval or disdain of the Marines as a whole. Period. End of story. Good night, drive safely.

[MadRocketScientist]

BUT...Marines tend to be a bit more "experienced" in various things than, well, someone I want dating my underaged niece, if that makes sense.

That is decidedly NOT a true generalization. While most of the Marines I worked with were not stupid or innocent (and I was Navy, so all Marines were by default stupid :) ), they were also very rarely "players" and were loyal to their girlfriends almost to a fault.

If her boyfriend is a nice guy, I doubt she'll find a more honorable and loyal one than a leatherneck.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm with you, Jester. I would want to wonder why a supposedly "mature" guy, with the experience of having become a marine, thought he had something in common with my my 17 year old niece.

Okay, yeah. There are plenty of arguments out there. I've read 'em. Whatever. I also remember actually BEING a 17 year old girl. Sure, he might have fine intentions. I've dated older boys myself when I was a kid. It might be completely fine. It was for me. However, I know young girls. And I know men.

Right there with you, buddy.

[dispatch]

Jester, I know exactly where you're coming from here; my sister, who's 15, took an interest in boys this year, one of whom she mentioned I knew quite well because he was in MY graduating class and had a criminal record. Since then I've kept a consistent dialog with her, I've met her friends, and when she has guys around while I'm there I just stay out of the way and sharpen a knife in the living room :D