need advice on a relationship issue

[erasily_ani]

So here's the deal -- I'm having a little problem with my boyfriend and want some suggestions from y'all.

Let me start by saying that I love my boyfriend completely and totally. There hasn't been anyone else since I started dating him and I don't think there ever will be anyone else. I completely expect to marry him. But I'm a little cautious because of one thing.

I am not extremely close with all of my exes, but there are a couple of them that I still consider friends and that I talk to every once in awhile online or on the phone. The boyfriend doesn't like this. He says I should "Just let it go" and doesn't understand why I would still want to talk to them. And mainly just because I do adore them because the break ups weren't bad. I still somewhat consider them friends and I care about their happiness and their well being.

But he doesn't like that. And I guess I can kind of understand that. He had a girlfriend cheat on him the entire time they were together with an ex, deleting call logs and texts. So that's fine. I don't talk to them anymore. I just get updates from mutual friends.

But the big problem is with my best friend. My best friend is a guy that lives over a thousand miles away from me and who I haven't seen in over two years. But he's still my best friend. He works as a manager in a bar and is rarely off work before 2 am his time, so I would often get texts and calls late from him, which has never been a problem for me.

The boyfriend didn't like that, so I told best friend to stop calling so late.

One day a couple of weeks ago, I was really upset. I don't know why. It was late, I couldn't sleep, the boyfriend was sleeping and had to go to work in the morning so I didn't want to wake him, but I needed to talk to someone. So I texted my best friend and asked him to get online so I could talk to him.

I sat in bed on my laptop cause boyfriend had complained already that I was in the other room and talked to my best friend on AIM. I did not try to hide it nor did I delete any texts or evidence that I had talked to my best friend.

The next morning, I get woken up really early with boyfriend yelling "Why did you text [best friend] at 3:30 in the f*cking morning!" and then him going on and on about how he was leaving and it was over and all that. I was crying and trying to explain that he was my best friend and I just needed to talk to him.

Now he doesn't want me talking to him or anything. He doesn't want me to see him (best friend was going to try and come visit this fall). I think he's overreacting but when I try to say anything like that, boyfriend blows up.

How do I handle this? How can I explain to my boyfriend that my best friend is nothing more than my best friend but that I don't want to have to choose between them? :cry:

Sorry for the length and the ranting, but I just don't know what to do.

[Bright_Star]

Seems to me that if you can't make a move without having him suspect you of doing something sneaky then you may have to re-evaluate your relationship with him. Where does he get the notion that you can't be friends with your exes? That's your business & if he doesn't like it then it's NOT your job to make him feel better by getting rid of your friends. He's showing the classic signs of control issues.
I'd be carefull if I were you.

[DesignFox]

I am sorry to hear you are having this trouble, ani.

The biggest thing for me in any relationship is trust. You have to trust one another. I understand that he was hurt very badly by his ex, but he really needs to let that go and trust you. If he cannot trust you, this situation will never get better.

He cannot control you, he cannot change you. Nor should he expect to!

As awful and hard as it is, I think you really need to talk to him. He needs to understand how you feel about your friends, and if he cannot accept that, you may need to let him move on. If he really loves and cares about you, he wouldn't make you give up your friends.

I can certainly understand him being uncomfortable with you having one on one visits, or chatting with them more than you do with him. But I think you've made it pretty clear that that is not the case! You have made many sacrifices for him, and that is wonderful- because you do need to give when you are in a relationship- but he has to give back.

If he is that controlling now ask yourself what may happen if you do marry him, too. I hope this is not the case- that he is a control freak- but please do not cut yourself off from your friends.

Good luck! I hope he will listen to you.

[Ljt09863]

i say the first thing you need to do is sit down with your boyfriend and give him a stern talking. something along the lines of,"boyfriend, i love you. you are the love of my life. nobody else can replace you. i want to be with you and you only. but you have to understand, that i have friends. some of these friends are male. but they are strictly friends. i have no intention of being more than friends with them. why would i want to be with them as more than friends when i have you? best friend is 2000 miles away, and sometimes, i want to talk to him. you have to let me have my friends. youhave no reason to be worried about me straying. you have my heart, now you have to let me have my friends."


and if he doesn't listen, i would leave. to me, this is a form of control. he is jealous, and he shouldn't be. if it gets worse, please, you have to leave. abusive relationships(and im not saying this will be) start out with control. he will cut you off from your friends, then your family, then everybody.

please talk to him, and see if it gets better.

[tropicsgoddess]

Trust is one of the big things that can make or break a relationship. If he has trust issues with you now, then it'll be the same if not worse if and when you both are married. Have a talk with him and think really hard about it. If he can't handle the fact that you have male friends that you have nothing going on that's beyond friendship, then you might need to consider cutting your losses with him.

[Evil Queen]

i say the first thing you need to do is sit down with your boyfriend and give him a stern talking.

I did that with my S.O. He's always been a little nervous when I spoke to my male friend E. But I talked to him about it, told him that yes, I do like my friend very much, but I loved [S.O.] more. We still have the chat because sometimes he feels like he's being replaced when I talk to E for hours on end (over IM of course) or very late at night (he and I both get off work late). But is he being replaced? No. I'm just talking to a friend whom I've known for a very long time. That's all.

Just remind your Boyfriend that nothing's there and he should grow up about it. Mine did.

[Amethyst Hunter]

I concur with what others have said.

I believe it was Jester who once said something to the effect of "relationships may come and go, but friends are forever and there ain't no messing with that, period, and any SO who does is getting their walking papers." He's right. You definitely need to have a good talk with yours asap, and if he still refuses to bend, seriously reconsider whether solidifying your relationship with him would be worth the loss of your friends.

Good luck.

[dispatch]

It's natural for a guy to get a little territorial, especially after he's been scarred, but this is rediculous! Every girl I've dated has "that friend" that they're close with that friends/family tell you to watch out for, but if you want a relationship to work there's a few things you need to bite your tounge about. I think you should talk to him on neutral ground (coffee shop, diner, etc) about how you REALLY feel and compromises that can be made.
In every relationship there's going to be conflicting intrests whether it be friends, movies, music, eating habits, etc. but the mark of a healthy relationship is the ability to negotiate these obstacles in a way that's agreeable to both parites. You're not asking him to like them, you're not asking him to hang out with them, you're not even asking him to meet them, you just want to talk to them and that's not something you should have to ask permission for.

[ArcticChicken]

You don't need his permission to have friends. I agree with the others that you need to sit down and have a chat about friendship, and about trust. If that doesn't work, try couples counseling.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I won't give advice since everyone else has already said it. I will say this, though. I can understand that when you've been hurt it is difficult to trust someone in a new relationship, but there comes a time when you have to stop judging your significant other based on the actions of someone else, and start judging them on their own history with you. Yes, his ex cheated, but from what you say you've been completely open and aboveboard about who you talk to and don't hide messages/conversations from him. If you've been together long enough to be considering marriage, it's time he starts looking at your history and letting go of his past relationships. And you can tell him I said so.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I can't say better than what's already been said. Jealousy sucks, and people who try to cut their SO off from the people in their lives have ulteriour motives, non of which are good.

I realize he might be gun shy, but you didn't cheat on him. This other chick did, and that's got nothing to do with you. His calling your loyalty into question every time you talk to your friends is insulting.

Half the folks on the planet are male. You're going to have males in your life other than him. He needs to get past his insecurities. They aren't healthy and they aren't fair.

This is not a problem that will fix itself.

[Jester]

Let me start by saying that I love my boyfriend completely and totally. There hasn't been anyone else since I started dating him and I don't think there ever will be anyone else. I completely expect to marry him. But.....

Anyone else every notice that these stories almost always start like this? "I love him totally, BUT....."

That but told me early on I had an idea where this was going. I was right.

How can I explain to my boyfriend that my best friend is nothing more than my best friend but that I don't want to have to choose between them?

How? Well, darlin', I read your post. You don't need to worry about HOW you explain it to him, because you already HAVE explained it to him. How you get him to LISTEN TO or ACCEPT that explanation is what your problem really is.

And frankly, it sounds like he is not interested in doing either. He is one of those guys that is insecure in this (and other) relationship(s) and sees any other guy in his woman's life as a threat or even a challenge to his place in the relationship, and perhaps to his very manhood itself.

Now I am going to be blunt, and I doubt you will really HEAR what I have to say, but I do hope you at least listen and consider it, two things your boyfriend does not seem in any way willing to do.

Your boyfriend sounds very much like a control freak, an unreasonably jealous guy, and a jerk. He is convinced that because one girl cheated on him, all of them will, and the only way to prevent that is to cut you off from every male friend you have, whether or not you have any romantic or sexual history with them, and whether or not he has any good reason to suspect anything. Until he accepts that not every woman is like that one in his past, this will not change. He obviously does not trust YOU enough to give you the credit of being able to have male friends. Personally, I want to punch him in the face. Repeatedly. I hate guys like this.

I have always found it bizarre when one or both people in a couple "forbids" or "doesn't allow" or somehow limits their partner from associating with people of the opposite sex. These are insecure people and/or couples, and generally speaking, such relationships are doomed, either to failure or longterm unhappiness.

I remember when I was dating The Brit, neither one of us was the jealous type, and one of my coworkers, who WAS in a couple like the one described above, asked me about it. They wanted to know why I didn't mind her associating with guys. "I trust her," I would tell them. "Really? Well, what would you say if she called you up one day and said, 'Hey, Jester, I'm heading out to the bars with thirteen guys.'?" I replied, simply and truthfully, "I would tell her to have fun."

Because I trusted her. Your boyfriend does not trust you, nor women in general, it would seem.

(By the way, I don't want anyone here thinking I am making my relationship with The Brit out to be perfect. It most certainly was not. That woman had enough neuroses to fill a few chapters in the average psyche text, and me? Well, if you haven't figured out some of my many flaws by now, after all my time in this forum, y'all haven't been paying attention! But, when it comes to the whole jealousy/control issue, I would put The Brit and I up against anyone, thank you very much!)

And now the part you are not going to want to hear. Basically, I see only two solutions here that will ennable you to keep your best friend. 1. Somehow get your boyfriend to listen to reason, perhaps through counseling, perhaps through intervention from some of his friends on your behalf. Personally, I don't see that happening, but I have been wrong before. 2. Dump your boyfriend.

Hey, I told you you wouldn't like them! The only other outcome I see happening is you dumping your best friend, and then your boyfriend going about making sure you have no male friends. And perhaps eventually, cutting you off completely from ALL of your friends, perhaps even your family. That is the classic model for control freaks, some of whom turn into abusers as well.

I know this....if I EVER dated a girl that had a problem with me having female friends, or worse, had a problem with me being friends with my best friend Neets (who IS a girl, mind you), I would dump that girl so fast it would make her spin to the tune of Ratt's "Round and Round"!

I also know that if you dump your best friend because of this fuck trout, many of your current friends, and many of the people on this forum (including me) will pretty much lose respect for you. Is that harsh? Well, yes. It is. So is the situation your boyfriend has put you in. But at least my harshness is HONEST. See, this situation is not about love or caring, darlin'. This is about control. His control over you.

I'd like to see this work out in the best possible way for you, but having seen this same type of thing over and over, you'll pardon me if my optimism for such a resolution is lower than my faith in our government.

[Gravekeeper]

I've been trying to think of a way to sum up my thoughts since I first read this post. Jester just did it for me. So I shall save myself much typing and agree with his assessment.

It was an immediate red flag in my head when I read the op and yeah, you have two options. Try and change him ( A long, arduous road with little chance of success to be honest. I tried it once before with someone that had a similar issue ) or get out of Dodge and save yourself the emotional pain. ( Which is what I did. )

[protege]

There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said.

I do know about the 'insecurity' bit. I've posted about one of my college girlfriends getting upset because I helped a female friend move. Never mind that I would *not* have dated this girl--she was, for lack of better words, pretty fucking annoying. That didn't stop my then-gf from getting pissed. She got pissed not only over that, but because I tend to have plenty of female friends. Mainly because I don't treat girls like shit :p

That wasn't the first time I found myself in that situation either. Oddly enough, it happened before I met her. At the time, I was dating someone I met on vacation. It sucked that it was a long-distance thing (which I will *never* do again), but what can I say? I loved her. The next summer, I got stuck working at camp, and couldn't see her at the beach like the previous year. My mother and I ended up going down that August for a long weekend.

Most of the time was spent with my girlfriend and her family. We'd go for walks, check out the sights, etc. As she and I were on a long walk down the beach, things suddenly went to shit. Her father came to find us walking back, and asked me who "Lori" was :confused: then said "your mother said to "go find Pro and Lori."

Yep, that went over well. Not only did I get screamed at, but I got the 3rd degree over it :rolleyes: The only Lori I knew of was a friend from high school. She was very sweet, but at the time, was dating someone else. No matter how many times I said that, my then-gf just wouldn't let it go.

[Evil Queen]

Could be worse Pro. She could have rattled off a list of your female cousin's names trying to think of your girlfriends. (bad memory)

Then you would have been in some major trouble.


So has the OP come back with an update yet? I'd like to know if the "Sit down and chat" method worked for her or not. (Worked for me, hell, we still talk about it sometimes!)

[RetailWorkhorse]

Whatever you do, don't give up your best friend! *RW locates his best friend and chews on his pony-tail* Best Friend has been with you for years, he's like your brother only you actually like him (how many siblings hate each other as children? :p).

Boyfriend probably needs to talk to Best Friend so he knows where he stands and talking to another guy is easier than talking to a girl about the Guy Stuff.

[erasily_ani]

So has the OP come back with an update yet? I'd like to know if the "Sit down and chat" method worked for her or not. (Worked for me, hell, we still talk about it sometimes!)

Here now!

I had a sit down with him yesterday because we had another problem Friday night after he got home from work. He seemed a little out of it, so I asked him what was wrong. And the first thing he said to me (this was 30 minutes after he got home and he hadn't said anything but "Hi") was "I want to know who the h*ll was in our apartment today".

I had no clue what he was talking about and told him so. I said the kids had been there and he said "No. A friend drove by at 2:30 and saw some guy leaving our apartment. Who was here? Cause if you are cheating on me I WILL find out and I WILL make your life h*ll."

That's where I lost it. I yelled at him that I had given him absolutely no reason not to trust me and that I shouldn't have to pay for his ex girlfriend's mistakes. I told him I was too upset to have this conversation then, so I was going to stay with our friend (female, I'll call her L) that night. His response was "Yeah, whatever" and to slam the door in my face.

I was mad. Livid. I mean, seriously? I told him no less than three times that there hadn't been anyone in the apartment and that his friend must have been mistaken. The yard guys were outside Friday afternoon, maybe that's who he saw.

So I spent the night at L's house and came back yesterday morning. The BF didn't go to work yesterday, called off and got another guy to work for him. So we went to lunch and talked there.

I explained to him that, yes, I have some male friends. And honestly, I can understand, somewhat, him being a little weary of some of my ex boyfriends because there are one or two that would probably get back together with me if I asked, but I would never want to. I told him I love him and I love us and I love my life but I couldn't have him controlling me anymore.

I told him I was not going to let him make me choose between him and my best friend. I explained that I do not try to hide any communications with Jason from him and if he wants me to tell him when I talk to him, that's fine and I don't mind that. I kinda do that anyway. But that if he tried to keep me from talking to him, I would leave.

My BF started crying and apologized. He said he's just scared and hasn't been here before, because all his exes either cheated on him or just weren't that serious, so he's getting paranoid. I told him that I shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes. The BF said he thinks he needs help, because he thinks he might have some mental issues. I told him there was probably nothing wrong with him, that he probably just needed to talk to someone. He agreed.

He's working today, but I went to my minister this morning after church and asked if he knew of a sliding scale counseling group or something. He said the church does counseling sessions and that some of the church members are sliding scale therapists. He's going to try and put me in touch with someone.

BF has promised to go talk to someone. Hopefully that will help and he'll see that he's making mountains out of nothing. But he's promised to be okay with me talking to Best Friend and that he'll try to get a handle on his jealousy.

As I said, I love him. I want us to work out.

So we're going to work on it. I'll let y'all know what happens. Thanks for all the advice and keep him in your thoughts.

[Evil Queen]

Here's to hopeing things are going to be okay. :cheers:

I hate seeing relationships fail over paranoia and jealousy over something that doesn't exist. For all your mutual friend knows (the one who saw the mystery man leave) it could have been a delivery man, a solicitator, some random person looking for directions.

Keep an eye on your guy, I think something might be up. But that's just me. And I'm crazy.

[RetailWorkhorse]

I dunno, that stranger that Mutual Friend saw has me a bit worried (but then I get really paranoid when someone uses the bottom of the driveway to just turn around, so what do I know? :rolleyes:). Hope you have a security system.

[Eireann]

Unfortunately, I think your boyfriend DOES have mental issues. Don't downplay his problems simply because he's your boyfriend - you won't do yourself, or him, any favors by doing so. If it were an issue with his physical health, you'd want to make damned sure that he was healthy if you had reason to believe something might be wrong. Act as if it's a physical issue.

Now, your boyfriend is aware that if he cries and agrees to seek help, you'll back off, and you'll stay with him. Maybe he really is sincere when he says he needs help. Maybe he's saying it because he knows it's what YOU want to hear. Be very, very, VERY careful around him now. Make sure he really is going to counseling. Watch his behavior when you speak to ANY man, not just your best friend.

Also, do you have solid proof that his ex cheated on him? This is a classic technique used by some people to try to excuse their behavior with a current flame - the statement that "my ex cheated/stole/left me in the middle of the night". Anything that can't be checked by you should be taken with a grain of salt.

Remember, this is the guy who woke you in the morning, yelling about you talking to your best friend. This is the guy who, by your own admission, blew up when you attempted to talk to him about your best friend. This is the guy whose "friend" just happened to drive by your place and "saw" a strange man leaving.

I'll tell you this flat out - it is my firm belief that he is lying to you. There WAS no friend driving by, and as you know full well, there was no guy in your apartment. Your boyfriend was the one who drove by, and he didn't see anyone, but he was trying to scare you into saying something that fit in with HIS insanely jealous delusions. Then he THREATENED you. You've stated his words here - that he WILL make your life hell. Now, THAT you can believe.

So, why are you with him? And don't say "I love him", because I'm sorry, but that doesn't fly. There are undoubtedly things that attracted you to him, and that keep you with him, but those things do not equal love. You're used to him, he's used to you (yes, I know, I've said similar things to others; it's still valid), but you don't have a healthy, honest relationship. Healthy relationships don't have unreasonable jealousy, threats, or lies. Your situation contains all three, and in abundance.

So, whether he seeks counseling or not - and I doubt that he will, since he's in your good graces again, by doing not much more than crying and making claims he doesn't have to follow up - I think you need it, to clarify everything that's going on in your life, and to find out what has drawn you to a guy who treats you like this, and to use "love" as the reason why you're still putting up with it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Now, your boyfriend is aware that if he cries and agrees to seek help, you'll back off, and you'll stay with him. Maybe he really is sincere when he says he needs help. Maybe he's saying it because he knows it's what YOU want to hear. Be very, very, VERY careful around him nowman leaving.

I'll tell you this flat out - it is my firm belief that he is lying to you. There WAS no friend driving by, and as you know full well, there was no guy in your apartment. Your boyfriend was the one who drove by, and he didn't see anyone, but he was trying to scare you into saying something that fit in with HIS insanely jealous delusions. Then he THREATENED you. You've stated his words here - that he WILL make your life hell. Now, THAT you can believe.

Two things here. Eireann is right. He knows how to manipulate you into going from mad to sympathetic. He's gone it to others. Guaranteed. It's a time honored method abusers use to keep their women from leaving them.

Second, he is lying to you. Either your weirdo bf is driving by your place 20 times a day to check up on you himself, or he's got a weirdo friend of his parked across the street watching you all day.

No, nothing particularly fucked up or creepy about that scenario, of course. :rolleyes:

And I would submit to you that you are not so much in love with him as you are on some level afraid you can't do better or don't deserve better. Maybe he even tells you this, or suggests it to you. Men like this look for women who think that way. It's another way they keep the women from leaving.

YOu are in an intolerable situation right now. Think about multiplying it by about 10 and imagine how nice that will be. That's gonna be your life if you stay with him.

You know what the right thing to do is. You never needed us to tell you.

[Amethyst Hunter]

And the first thing he said to me (this was 30 minutes after he got home and he hadn't said anything but "Hi") was "I want to know who the h*ll was in our apartment today".

I had no clue what he was talking about and told him so. I said the kids had been there and he said "No. A friend drove by at 2:30 and saw some guy leaving our apartment. Who was here? Cause if you are cheating on me I WILL find out and I WILL make your life h*ll."

:eek: Dump him. Now. That is NOT the behavior of someone YOU can trust!

And I'm not just saying this because it was my immediate gut reaction while reading your latest post.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but IMO this is not going to work out in the long term, and you'll ultimately be doing yourself even worse heartbreak if you stay with him and let him run roughshod all over you like this. Look at the way he jumped all over you when it was clear you knew nothing of his accusations. Look at his words. They reek of control, insecurity, and (worst-case scenario) potential abusiveness.

Love is not enough to make a relationship work. Trust is a HUGE component of *any* successful relationship. Your SO clearly doesn't trust you and likely never will, or he wouldn't have threatened (yes, he *threatened*) you.

DUMP HIM. You deserve someone who will respect you. SO doesn't, and sadly, it's not going to get any better.

[Gravekeeper]

And I'm not just saying this because it was my immediate gut reaction while reading your latest post.

My immediate gut reaction was "run."

[blas]

You don't need a guy that treats you that way or makes idle threats.

It will start to ruin your life, if it already hasn't (and reading this thread so far, I can see it already has!).

Trust me, I've been there before. As far as I know, no, he didn't have anyone follow me around or hide or make any threats worse than "No one can lie to me, I can tell when people are lying, so don't even try it", but he had zero trust and was always adament I was being "scandalous".

It's not a way to live. Get rid of this worthless sack right now.

[protege]

Could be worse Pro. She could have rattled off a list of your female cousin's names trying to think of your girlfriends. (bad memory)

At least there are only 4 of those, and the then-gf met one of them. But yeah, I see your point :p

[Rapscallion]

Those trust issues are his problem, not yours. Don't make them yours. Don't be led on by a guilt trip.

I don't want to see you posting here in a few months time saying something like, "He only scares me a bit," or, "He only beats me a little."

Rapscallion

[iradney]

A leopard doesn't change his spots.
He is obviously well versed in the ways of manipulation, and has basically gotten you trained. Yes, you read right, trained.
A relationship where there is trust and respect (you cannot have one without the other!) will not require either partner to give up friends of the opposite sex, harmless hobbies etc.

TTO and I have been together over 4 years now, and he understands that I get on better with guys than girls. Hence my best friends are a girl and a boy. He doesn't care who I hang out with as long as I'm having a blast with them. And yes, he was cheated on by his previous girlfriend. He doesn't try and use it an excuse to control me.

If your boyfriend is serious about the counselling, then good for him. But remember, abusive relationships are about control. And he's trying to control you by cutting you off from other people in your life. The fact that he threatened you made big red alarm bells ring in my head.

Sure, it's easy for all of us to say "Leave him." We don't have the same emotional investment in him and the relationship as you do. But it's easier to uproot and replant a young sapling than a 100 year old oak. Ask yourself, was he different in the beginning? Charming, chivalrous, attentive? If he was different then to how he is now, then he got you into this relationship under false pretences.

I know we all prefer to put on our best faces in the beginning of a relationship, but there's a difference between putting on makeup in the mornings so he doesn't see your morning face, and creating a whole new personality.

[Talon]

Ok, time to play detective.

Who was this mysterious friend who supposedly saw another mystery man leaving your apt? Does the friend have a name? Would it be okay if you talked to the mystery friend about this mystery intruder? Did he get a description of the mystery man leaving your apt? After all if there really was an intruder, maybe a police report should be filed?

Think about it. If you really believe your b/f is sincere, then he shouldn't have a problem with any of those questions. But if he does take issue... well you fill in the blanks.

Remember, one crying fit and apology - even if it's sincere - doesn't mean squat if his behaviour doesn't improve.

[blas]

The funny thing about that Talon, is that they can never seem to name the friend, or they will flat out refuse to say who it was, if somehow you are lucky enough to straddle the tattletale out, that person can never seem to remember what the "intruder" looked like.....hell they'll stutter if you even ask what time of day it was.

Me thinks if the OP tries to ask about just who the friend was or what the person leaving looked like, the only answer she's going to get is "It doesn't MATTER, I caught you!" or "What does that matter? Some guy was leaving, I KNOW it!"

[Jester]

There are undoubtedly things that attracted you to him, and that keep you with him, but those things do not equal love.
And I would submit to you that you are not so much in love with him as you are on some level afraid you can't do better or don't deserve better.

Well, yes and no. See, perception IS reality. If she thinks she loves him, she does. WE may not see it as love, but as long as SHE does, for her it IS, if that makes sense.

That being said, love, no matter how you define it, by itself is not enough reason to stay with someone that is controlling, distrustful, threatening, and somewhat abusive.

A leopard doesn't change his spots.

Well, not usually. There are exceptions.....one of the posters here told about their boyfriend that was behaving the same way, and she sat him down, talked with him, and got him to change. And there have been cases I have seen where people have completely turned around and changed their ways.

HOWEVER, those are exceptions, not the rule. MOST times, people really DON'T change.

Sadly, just about every woman in this situation thinks that their guy is going to be that exception. Sadder still, just about every woman in this situation is dead wrong.

Personally, from what I read, I really don't see the guy in the original post being the type to change, or even wanting to change. He is, as I said, a fuck trout.

[blas]

Another thing to point out (and I learned this the HARD way with my last boyfriend) is that you HAVE to STOP making excuses for the guy's behavior.

I used to say things like "He's just over protective" and "He's been hurt before". I ONCE believed that he was really just trying to protect me and be the knight on the white horse.

Only after a few of my real life friends (well, coworkers) and almost everyone on here started saying "Um blas....this guy isn't protecting you....he's manipulating you and he's going to start controlling you because he knows you believe his act."

Well guess what? Eventually, the controlling and the "rules" began. What I used to think was protecting me became controlling. I was told I couldn't wear skirts or anything revealing, because "people will look at you" (aka, other guys would look at me, and then he'd have to knock them out for daring to look). I was threatened with a "You go ahead and do that, we'll SEE what happens" when I asked if he cared if I went out with my girlfriends and *GASP* went to the bar without him. The threats were the worst. "We'll SEE what happens." Are you fucking kidding me? Nope. He really was threatening that he'd question our relationship and possibly end it if I went out with anyone but him, even GIRLS!

The very night I was turning my phone off and he all of a sudden went ballistic and swore up and down I was hiding something and was cheating and was a liar and a whore.......and thankfully, that very moment he walked out and didn't turn back....thankfully, I got off lucky. I was fortunate enough to snag a controlling guy who, unlike the others, was full of himself and very snobbish. If you didn't go with what he wanted, he considered you a waste of time, and since I wasn't admitting to something I didn't do, he figured I was a waste and he left. That was the best thing to ever happen in that relationship.

I got off easy.

Please do the right thing and get off easily like I did. Don't hang around for ONE more minute and let this guy bring you in closer and closer. MOST guys who are controlling are not that willing to let go. Guys like my ex are very rare....most controlling guys will not let you go that easily. SO PLEASE, do something.

Come to think of it, don't even ask him who the friend was or what the other guy looked like. You do not owe him an explanation. You are better than him.

[erasily_ani]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and suggestions. I am reading it all and I am taking it all to heart.

But let me say this, I will not be leaving him right now. I do love him and if he is truly serious about wanting to work on his issues, I want to work on them with him. Meaning I'm going to give him a chance to fix this because I do want us to work. But I am going to be on the watch for an slip into behavior or things I'm not okay with.

This is his one chance, I guess.

I'm not going to address all the things that have been brought up, as 1) it'd take too long :p and 2) it would seem I'm trying to justify him, which I'm not. But I do want to say that the "I'll make your life h*ll" comment was not in any way a physical threat to me, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. He said he would make sure everyone I know knew I cheated on him if he found out I did. While that isn't any better, I just wanted to clarify that.

When he got home from work last night he apologized, on his own, for blowing up Friday. He said work was stressing him out and he was taking it out on me. I told him it wasn't just work and that he needed to trust me. And, as someone suggested this morning (but I did it last night) I asked him who the friend was, because if there was someone near our apartment, I wanted to know. He immediately gave me the name and phone number of a friend of his (not someone I know, but someone I've heard about and talked to) and I called the guy. I asked about the person and what he saw and I think I figured out what happened -- our apartments our numbered very oddly and while he knows our address, he has never actually been to our house. We think he saw someone (one of the residents) coming out of ANOTHER apartment that looked like ours. BF was listening to this entire conversation and agreed that he should have clarified it instead of just jumping to conclusions.

We're also going to see a counselor my minister put us in touch with tomorrow after he gets off work.

So I'm going to give a chance -- one chance. The first time I see what looks like old behavior, I will go.

Thanks again for the support. I don't know many people around here and there's not many people I feel comfortable talking to, so it's nice to have somewhere I can go to vent or just have support. Thanks alot.

[Talon]

And, as someone suggested this morning (but I did it last night) I asked him who the friend was, because if there was someone near our apartment, I wanted to know. He immediately gave me the name and phone number of a friend of his (not someone I know, but someone I've heard about and talked to) and I called the guy. I asked about the person and what he saw and I think I figured out what happened -- our apartments our numbered very oddly and while he knows our address, he has never actually been to our house. We think he saw someone (one of the residents) coming out of ANOTHER apartment that looked like ours. BF was listening to this entire conversation and agreed that he should have clarified it instead of just jumping to conclusions.

Wow I'm surprised.

Like Blas, I was expecting him to blow up again, or try and bluster his way out of that one. But then again my heart is a dried-up rotten apple of cynicism, so what can anyone expect.

Do stay on your toes, and keep us posted.

[erasily_ani]

I was expecting him to blow up again, or try and bluster his way out of that one. But then again my heart is a dried-up rotten apple of cynicism, so what can anyone expect.

Do stay on your toes, and keep us posted.

I will. My hope is that this made him realize I'm serious when I say I'm not his ex and it's not fair that I have to pay for her mistakes. I really don't want to think that he's the "abusive" or "controlling" person y'all are saying these could be signs of. I want to believe he made a mistake and will honestly make an effort and change.

That being said, I am being weary and cautious of anything starting again, but that's why I'm giving him a chance. Maybe he's of the breed that CAN change because that's not who he really is.

[Eireann]

I don't like what I'm seeing here. I don't like it one little bit.

I will. My hope.... I really don't want to think that he's the "abusive" or "controlling" person y'all are saying these could be signs of. I want to believe he made a mistake and will honestly make an effort and change.

...I'm giving him a chance. Maybe ...

My guess is, you've been lucky enough to deal with good guys in the past, and a lot of them. The fact that your best friend is male, supports my theory. So, going from that point, I'd say you've never dealt with a manipulator, never dealt with someone who "solves" issues through violence, never dated someone who wasn't what he appeared to be.

Look at your own words above. I hope. I really don't want to believe. I'm giving him a chance. Maybe.

Look - "maybe" is not enough for a lifetime. You've already received a good dose of what he's like. And one thing I learned (thanks to Gavin de Becker) is that people never act out of character. You don't like what he did? It's part of who he is. If you say, "That sort of behavior isn't like him," what you're actually saying is, "I don't know him as well as I thought I did."

Even if he weren't abusive or controlling, even if he is telling the truth about his ex, he's still a child, and a badly spoiled one at that. He's not maturing, and he's doing everything he can to remain a child, so that he doesn't have to feel responsible for his actions.

And, to be honest, I still don't like his convenient story about your apartment. If his friend has never even been to your house, then why would he even look in the direction of your apartment, let alone think that your apartment was the one a strange man was leaving? And assuming, for the sake of argument, that this is the truth, why on earth would he mention it to your boyfriend, whom he must know is insanely jealous and would jump to the wrong conclusion immediately? The fact that you don't know this guy well is another enormous red flag - it means that you don't know how truthful he is, or his reputation, or just about anything important that means you should take his word. Also, the fact that your boyfriend was listening to every word says to me that he wanted to make sure his friend got the story right, so that you would believe him.

So, please remember these things. Love isn't enough, when it's unilateral. There are plenty of couples who have broken up when BOTH of them were in love. And - I'm NOT saying this to hurt you, or to cast ANY aspersions on your character - I do not believe for a moment that he loves you, or likes you, or cares about you.

And. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PERSON YOU ARE. IT'S ABOUT HIM.

I've dealt, more than once, with some guy who didn't love me, and I simply refused to see it, because I "loved" him and tried to convince myself that he wasn't what other people said he was. He was, however, even worse than everyone said, and I held on with bulldog tenacity because I wanted to believe the fantasy, rather than letting the reality set me free.

By the way, the truth really does set you free. It's not always the freedom you expected, but it frees you. And it's for the best.

Now, you may be sitting there in shock, saying, "How can anyone who doesn't know my boyfriend, tell me he doesn't love me?"

I can. I can do it because I've been there, and I know how it hurts. I can because of his behavior, which I know all too well. I can because he makes excuses for his behavior; because he uses threats to get what he wants; because he has convenient stories to support his jealous rages; because he's trying to cut you off from your best friend; because he hands you sob stories about his ever-so-cruel ex.

You, on the other hand, are a trusting person, someone who hasn't had to deal with life's abusers, someone who CAN feel love and can't understand anyone who doesn't feel it, someone with strong friendships, someone who wants to help people. It's a sad fact of life that abusers tend to go for the warm, caring people, and the warm, caring people knock their guts out trying to "help" those who can't be helped, and aren't interested in it anyway.

Whatever you do, know that you are better than this. You deserve someone who loves you completely and thoroughly, who communicates with you without raising his voice or threatening you in any way, who doesn't complain about his exes, and who is committed to making your relationship work.

[kibbles]

I think erasily has explained perfectly her decisions and I don't think it is possible to analyze someone or their relationship online.

[Evil Queen]

Ya Kibbles, I must agree with that assessment. It's not like we can glean all the information needed to make proper decisions on a single person's word alone, without seeing body language and tone of the conversation.

Erasily_ani, if you believe you have the situation under control, then I applaud you. just about ALL relationships go through a rough patch and if anyone says otherwise they need to get their heads outta their asses and take a look at reality for a few nanoseconds. Hell, I went through a [aforementioned] rough patch and now the relationship is better then ever.

I'm generally a very mean person. I say what is on my mind, brash or no. Not every relationship is perfect. People DO fight, argue, have MASSIVE disagreements and people, in general, are paranoid. It comes with the dating territory. Just make sure you don't have to put up with any Bull Shit.

[Jester]

But let me say this...

I somehow knew there would be one of those ominous "but"s in here.....

But I do want to say that the "I'll make your life h*ll" comment was not in any way a physical threat to me, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. He said he would make sure everyone I know knew I cheated on him if he found out I did. While that isn't any better, I just wanted to clarify that.

And there's another one!

And no, it isn't better. Abuse is not necessarily physical, and verbal, emotional, and mental abuse can be very vicious as well. And he says he will tell everyone that you cheated if he finds out. Sounds to me like he is still looking at you suspiciously, merely waiting for you to "slip up" or some such nonsense.

We're also going to see a counselor my minister put us in touch with tomorrow after he gets off work.

While I am encouraged that he is willing to go through with counseling, I will reserve my optimism for later, as I have seen this play through too many times to get even a shred of hope up.

Thanks again for the support. I don't know many people around here and there's not many people I feel comfortable talking to, so it's nice to have somewhere I can go to vent or just have support. Thanks alot.

If you ever want to talk privately, just PM me. Yes, I am a guy, and yes, I like women, but as you are somewhere else completely, and I am really not looking for a long distance love affair, you can be assured that I will merely offer my advice and counseling, and not have any ulterior motives, despite what the fuck trout may think.


Maybe he's of the breed that CAN change because that's not who he really is.

Possibly, but unlikely. The odds really are against you here, kid. I think it is fantastic that you are such a caring person that you are giving him a chance to redeem himself and change his ways, but please, make sure you don't waffle if he does this shit again. If he is the controller I think he is, he will find a way to weasel his way into your heart and brain so that you have less resistance to his manipulations and machinations.

I think erasily has explained perfectly her decisions and I don't think it is possible to analyze someone or their relationship online.

Actually, it is. We may be WRONG in some of our analysis, certainly, but the girl DID ask us for our help, and we can hardly counsel her without analyzing the relationship in question. Would it be better for her to seek advice in person from a professional counselor? Of course it would. But those of us who are analyzing and advising here are doing so out of our desire to help Erasily_Ani. I think she does understand that we can only offer so much advice, as our knowledge of the situation is, of course, limited.

But sometimes it really is good to get a completely outside opinion. I know I have both gotten and given good advice online, so to say it is not possible? I am going to have to strongly disagree with you there.

[kibbles]

I know she asked for help, and to some extent stuff has to be analyzed; but, her last post in this thread wasn't asking for help but giving an update on the situation and the decisions she made.

That's what I meant by my post, sorry if it came across wrong.

[AdminAssistant]

Erasily, you have all of the comfort and good thoughts I can send you. Personally, I'm a bit wary, but you seem to have the situation somewhat under control. However, I would recommend lining up a place to go if things go south in a hurry. Preferably a family member or female friend. I've seen men/boys go from perfectly nice to batshit insane in a nanosecond. I'm NOT saying that your bf would do that. But, if something sets him off again, that way you could just grab your purse and keys and GTFO.

And please don't think any of us here are judging you by staying and trying to work things out. I sincerely hope that it all works out. We're just concerned for you, and those of us who have been in emotionally abusive relationships just tend to be a bit sensitive to the warning signs. :hug:

[erasily_ani]

However, I would recommend lining up a place to go if things go south in a hurry. Preferably a family member or female friend. I've seen men/boys go from perfectly nice to batshit insane in a nanosecond. I'm NOT saying that your bf would do that. But, if something sets him off again, that way you could just grab your purse and keys and GTFO.

That, I have done. It's not next door (3 hour drive), but my sister has a large house with extra rooms and has said I can show up on her doorstep at 3 am if I need to (not because of this, but just in general) and my mom, my grandmother and I all have a couple of changes of clothes at my sister's house (we go up for weekends at least once a month, and it's easier to just have a few things there) so I can just leave the apartment, get in my car and drive if I need to.

And before you ask, yes I have my own bank account and money too. :p I take care of kids during the day and BF and I, while splitting bills, each has our own bank accounts. That's one thing I AM adament on -- I've seen too many people have problems there.

Thanks again for the thoughts. I'll keep y'all posted.

[Shangri-laschild]

Take care of yourself. I've seen exactly what a situation like this can do to someone. My best friend and I dated for a while back when we were first starting to be friends. We've been best friends since then and neither of us are interested in each other. He was with a girl who he really liked. She had had guys cheat on her with exs though and she was the type of girl who was surprised when J wasn't upset that she hung out with one of her exs. Most because she didn't trust herself so she couldn't see how someone could trust her. Of course this meant she also didn't trust him. She hated him hanging out with me. He hung out with me on my birthday (and had been nearly blowing me off up till that point for her, to make her happy) and when he accidentally didn't answer her texts for 4 hours she went off the deep end and freaked out. No amount of putting distance between the two of us made her happy. It doesn't usually work like that. It's an all of nothing thing for people like that and it doesn't matter if you only hang out with the person just a little. That relationship ran him ragged because it got to a point where a lot of their fighting was about me and him hanging out with me. He wanted to try to make things work but she did everything but vocalize the actual ultimatum of her or me.

I hope for your sake, he is the type to be able to turn around, but I've seen someone jerked around by the "I'll get over it, I'll get better, I'm sorry" line before. Make sure you're taking care of yourself first and please stick to your guns if he goes back on things.

[Dreamstalker]

The very night I was turning my phone off and he all of a sudden went ballistic and swore up and down I was hiding something and was cheating and was a liar and a whore.......
The ex used to concoct various theories as to why I could ever dare to not answer the phone every time he called (usually when he knew I was sleeping or working, or was otherwise occupied with propbuilding or tweaking my computer and just didn't want to be distracted)...once going so far as to say it was illegal for cell phones to not work in apartment buildings (wtf? this place was built before cell phones were even invented, mine doesn't get reception at all and that's that). I am SO glad he didn't decide to show up here and move in (somehow that was also my fault for "not getting an apartment that could fit two people"), even now he doesn't know exactly where I live.

[AdminAssistant]

That, I have done.

:) Honestly, I think you're doing the right thing. If you really and truly love him, give the counseling a shot. Good luck.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Just keep in mind one thing: he's not the only one to ever have been cheated on.

In fact, I'd say most people who've dated, had significant others, etc, have been cheated on in the past. I have, by ex boyfriends and whatnot. I don't have trust issues.

I bet a number of folks involved in this discussion have been cheated on.

And somehow, we manage not to be so paranoid we fly off the handle like this.

Please, just keep this in mind. Your boyfriend didn't experience a unique situation.
A bad one, yes. Traumatic and ugly, yes. But his reaction is not proportional.

[Jester]

I bet a number of folks involved in this discussion have been cheated on.

:wave:

Hi there! My name's Jester, and I've had girlfriends cheat on me.

And yet, I still don't have time for jealousy in my life.

[Evil Queen]

I bet a number of folks involved in this discussion have been cheated on.

:wave:

I've been cheated on. Twice. By two different people.

Go figure. :rolleyes:

This is why I have an interesting.... "relationship" going right now. :D

[blas]

To be precise, I have had more relationships that ended with me being cheated on, deceived, me tossed away for a different girl, etc etc....overall deception and dishonesty than there ever were good ones.....and I can't bring it upon myself to stalk, babysit, and "monitor" a guy I'm dating. I DO NOT have the time or the energy, or even the desire. Sane, normal people get intuitions that things aren't right. Sane, normal people sometimes get blindsided by a dishonest boyfriend/girlfriend. But sane, normal people (see a trend here?) don't have to keep tabs on their significant other and make wild accusations.

No one is trying to worry you or make you uncomfortable. The true fact of the matter is no, we don't know you or your boyfriend in real life, just online. Actually, the only stuff we know about him is what you've written.

But why are we panicking and going on for pages and pages about this? Because those of us who have been there and done that ARE worried or you. Those of us who have dated guys (and GIRLS too!) like that read your OP and raised an eyebrow and probably thought "Oh shit!".

We don't want you to end up in a worse situation, or hurt, or even worse, dead. Remember, I ALSO made excuses for the guy who was mentally abusive and manipulative towards me. I even tried to convince other members on here that they were nuts and no, he was NOT going to be controlling or abusive.

We don't want you to write back to us in a few days that he hit you or accused you of another stupid thing.

[Gravekeeper]

:wave:

Hi there! My name's Jester, and I've had girlfriends cheat on me.

And yet, I still don't have time for jealousy in my life.

Likewise, and I've somehow managed to press on in life without being an emotionally crippled, jealous, controlling douche waffle.

Jealousy is a waste of time though. So is anger, really. I had an ex like that. Flew off the handle at the smallest things. Everything was Drama Crisis. She was an SC too, just to top it all off. The best kind to be with too. The one that creates a huge farking scene then leaves the scene leaving you to clean up the shit storm she just created and endure the stares of other customers. >.>