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View Full Version : What do you say when goodbye and I'm sorry war with each other? Epic length!


Crazeyal
09-17-2008, 04:36 AM
Hi guys...

It's the Emo formerly known as Crazeyal.

I don't feel like dumping this on my wife, mainly because she's 100% on my side. As great as that is, Methinks I'm taking some blame on this one and I need some objective perspective.

My best friend basically just told me to %^#$# off..

Now.. I'm not 16. I'm 43 and am REALLY feeling my age tonight. This man has been my close friend since I was 15 years old. I defied the Marine Corps to attend his wedding. We've been through race riots, murder attempts, his two marriages and 7 children, not to mention growing up together in the chaos of NYC.

Back when I was a teenager, I made the mistake of letting the herd of teenagdome know that it bothered me to be teased. I was an outcast because people were cruel and I exuded victim. When I made a friend, it was always out of convenience and it was over as soon as someone "cooler" came along. My friend was the first person to ever call "ME" back. He was an honest and true friend, the first I ever had.

Years later, when he moved down south, because of an offer of a low-rent house from his relatives, I helped drive the truck. When his useless relatives RENTED the house out and didn't tell him, I emptied my wallet (not a unique occurrence) so him and his family had money for food.

The amount of times I've stood up and been a "good friend" to this man is LEGION. He's also been there for me at my lowest points. My wife would point out the disparity of my efforts and his, but I'd always come back that he was ALWAYS there whenever I needed him, he just had more need.

My wife was a timid thing when we were first dating. My friend was a loud daunting black man. He scared her. I understand that she hadn't been exposed to his sort of personality, and I also understood my friend's anger at her reaction. I tried like HELL to get them to understand each other, but it would take YEARS for things to calm down between them.

You have to understand, this is a man who told his first wife to "deal with it!" when she wanted me out of their newly-wed home. I'd just gotten home from the Marines and went to my family's home... and someone else opened the door. After being TOLD to leave what I thought was my family's home, I find that not only is the house sold, but my parents are divorced, my brother is taking the only spare room at my father's office and I am now homeless.

My friend took me in without a second thought. When his wife complained and told him to throw me out, he told her "He'll BE HERE in twenty years.. YOU MIGHT NOT BE!!!"

We laughed about that a little after his divorce.

The point is.. he stood up for me, I stood up for him. But there has always been a problem with my friend. He's always right. You can't argue with him, and if you dare to, you'd better have more than emotion to back up your words. He's an intelligent, passionate person who doesn't take guff from anyone. He's also pushy, arrogant and egotistical. If you agree with him, life is great. If you don't agree with him, you'd better back up your argument with facts and be able to express them intelligently. It was WORK if you wanted to disagree with him. People got in the habit of agreeing with him just to not DEAL with the attitude. I sure did.

He'd get me into business deals that were either multi-level marketing or based around his considerable charisma. But the man was working up wards of three jobs, feeding seven kids and an ex-wife. None of it ever worked beyond his initial burst of energy. I tried, but I'm not near the salesman that he is, and I work damn hard too. Everything we tried together failed.

After 911 I wanted out of NY so bad I could taste it. He'd been begging/demanding/cajoling me to move down south for YEARS. He swore the local economy was booming, and it was. Then we went to war against Iraq. My friend gave me a job after me being unemployed for six months. He was tough, but fair. The fact that I was pushing 40 and the "assistant manager" position turned into me asking "if you'd like fries with that?!?" nearly drove me to suicide. I was barely making $8 an hour. I needed more money desperately, so I started working for his cleaning business.

I was at my wit's end. How could I tell my best friend, who had stuck his neck out for me and gotten me $3 an hour more than anyone else walking in the door with no experience, that his job was killing me? That going to his cleaning job weekly, and cleaning smeared feces off the sinks and having to pick up bloody tampons every week was making me look at the river longingly???

My father needed a new place to live sometime around 2003. He wasn't getting along with my sister in NJ. He just wanted to contribute to something, as he'd sold his business and retired years ago. She found him too opinionated and vocal. I found him a LIFESAVER as he would help pay the rent!

My friend got mad and VOCAL about me leaving. I gave him plenty of notice, but he stretched out my two week's notice to four. Then he looked me square in the eye and asked me "Are you quitting because your dad is coming down or do you just NOT WANT TO WORK!?!?" I found this the height of insulting because I'd ALWAYS come through for him when his other workers had flaked, gotten arrested or just not shown up. I *STILL* was doing that. We were WORKING A JOB THAT HE GOT SURPRISED WITH WHEN HE SAID THAT!! But apparently I was "lazy"...


Of course.. he didn't say that.. "DON'T PUT WORDS in his mouth..." yadda yadda yadda...

It's ALWAYS been like this...

He's my BEST FRIEND. We introduce each other to strangers as brothers. But dammit I just keep feeling like I can't WIN!!! If I argue, I get the attitude. If I just do my own thing, I get the attitude..

He broke down in North Carolina last month. His "new" van has broken down on him on multiple occaisons... but this was BAD!! After coming back from Dragoncon (Atlanta to Columbia SC =320 miles) I drove to the middle of NC (about 225 miles) and dropped him off at his van. He asks if I want to come with him to pick up the Guinea pigs he had ORIGINALLY come to NC to purchase, and I tiredly gave him the hairy eyeball and said "NO THANKS!!"

20 minutes later I get a phone call that he's got the SAME DAMN PROBLEM and the van is KIA again. I drive my happy ass back and wait with him until the tow truck comes. Against my better judgment, because he assured me that the person he was meeting was only "twenty miles up the road" We went to get the Guinea pigs. The "Twenty miles" was up a FRIKKEN TWISTING 90 degree MOUNTAIN!! It took us HOURS to get there!! Then we drove up, down and around this tiny unlit road until MIDNIGHT!!!

I didn't get home until 2 am. Thank GOD I took the next day off of work.

continued

Crazeyal
09-17-2008, 04:37 AM
The result of it all was that his vehicle blew it's gasket seals and is not really worth repairing. It would have been $800 to tow it back to SC. His father in-law was going to tow it back for them, but let it slip to Avis that he'd be towing a van, which is against the rules. I get a call from my friend about all this and he asked me to co-sign a loan because he REALLY needed a new van. I told him that I didn't think it would be a problem, but I'd have to speak with my wife before I committed *OUR* financial resources to it. It's just respectful. I was sure I'd have to convince her, but I didn't feel comfortable promising something before I did so. He got mad over that.

The talk with the wife went as expected. Reluctance, re-iterance about the disparity of how much I do for "Them" as opposed to what they do for "us". I reminded her that every time we asked something, it was done. No questions asked. She relented.

I get a call from my friend today, apologizing because he fell asleep and that he "wanted to call me yesterday." I told him that I had already talked to his wife and told her that we'd co-sign the loan. He tells me that he was INSULTED that I had to confer with my wife about anything at all. He said he understood that I explained my POV to him, but he no longer wants my help, and if I have anything to say about it I should say it NOW. He mentions the problems between he and my wife and says that if it were HIM, he wouldn't have hesitated. I tell him that I am VERY insulted that he'd refuse my help AFTER my going to the wife. He restates that he realizes my opinion, but since THAT is my opinion, he and his family will just have to find another way.

I told him a very angry goodbye and flung the phone across the room. I feel like I've been physically slapped.

I then went and picked his son up from school because his wife had called me earlier and he still needed a ride. These kids call me "Uncle Ray" and have since they could speak. I couldn't take my anger out on one of them. But I think I'm going to have to take a step back, and maybe away from my friend. I'm tired of being bullrushed. I'm tired of explaining myself. I'm just.. tired.

We have such a long history. One argument isn't something to end a friendship over, but I can't just brush this sort of treatment under the rug anymore.

Over the years I've cut friends and family out of my life. Once you hit my BS limit, I walk away from you. I've literally bled for friends. I'll drive all night, listen all day, stand up to the someone three times my size for a friend. But don't cross the line with me.

I'm so tired of losing people. I'm so tired of things that can't be taken back. I don't know where the line is anymore. I'm not even sure it's been crossed. I don't know if he even wants to be friends anymore. I don't know if *I* want to be friends anymore...

I'm going to confront him tomorrow or very soon. That might be it for an almost thirty year friendship. All I did was try to be respectful, and now I feel like I'm 15 and all alone again

Kheldarson
09-17-2008, 06:39 AM
:hug:

I can only imagine what you're going through. And it doesn't seem pretty.


I would agree that you need to talk to your friend, because it does seem like a line has been crossed somewhere. And it might be because of the disparity your wife keeps bringing up. If one person in a relationship is doing more than the other, then the person doing more seems to end up more "tired" (observation mostly made from many many bored hours of reading Dear Abby, Annie's Mailbox, and Dear Amy so take how you will).


But...having very little experience in this area, I'll just reiterate the hug and I hope this works out for you :hug:

Rapscallion
09-17-2008, 07:28 AM
Life changes. People change. Stuff happens. People wear each other out. Give it a few months and you'll feel better (assuming you're going to avoid contacting him).

It's crap, but that's the way we are.

Rapscallion

Crazeyal
09-17-2008, 12:54 PM
yeah.. Thing is, I've always know how he is, and I've dealt with it. There's so much intwined between us, I really don't know what the 4th of July is going to look like this year.

MoxisPilot
09-17-2008, 02:29 PM
Honestly, I have very mixed feelings about this.

I believe that your spouse should always - always - come first, and you were right to discuss things with her; but then, I'm only speaking for myself here, because I also believe that marriage is a lifetime commitment, and that's a belief that's falling by the wayside with the rest fof the world.

Personally, I'd have to take a step back from that situation. It sounds as though your friend is extremely controlling, and entirely too dependent on your "help". Maybe a few months apart wouldn't be a bad idea. You can reassess your own personal life and feelings, and he can calm down.

In the end, though, it's down to what you think you should do.

I hope everything works out for you, whatever you decide.

Crazeyal
09-17-2008, 02:40 PM
No, If I take a step back, it's 99% likely to end the friendship. He'll never agree that HE was the one to end it, but even if he did... it wouldn't repair what was broken. I'm making this decision, and I have to live with it.

Evil Queen
09-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Whoa, Yal. Your friend isn't the kind of person I would want to be friends with. He seems to be more of a "good weather" friend. Sure, he likes you and will help you when things get hairy, but things get really really rough and he's all "My way or the Highway!"? Forget it. That's an explosion waiting to happen.

And if you hadn't talked to your wife about co-signing for a loan, a lot of people here wouldn't be happy with you at all. You did the right thing. But at this point, I think another right thing would be to cut your losses with this guy.

Crazeyal
09-17-2008, 05:44 PM
Actually, he's the very PICTURE of being there when needed. He once saved me from an angry mob (of course he got me lifted into the air by my throat before that...)

It's not that he's a bad friend, we've been so close that we call each other brother. But he is an unreasonable man when it comes to something he's opinionated about. It's finally reached the point where he's gone and done something that is enough of a slap in the face that I can't ignore it.

wagegoth
09-17-2008, 07:37 PM
I'm sorry, Al. The whole situation is incredibly sad.

I agree with you that anything involving that much money has to be discussed with your spouse. Your friend's attitude is probably one of the reasons for his divorce. He places your friendship very high, but demands a lot in return for it, not only from you, but from everyone else, including his wife and children.

You really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he is unwilling to bend, if he is unwilling to accept that your wife is at least equally important to you, I don't know what you can do beyond putting time and space between you.

Talon
09-18-2008, 01:15 AM
I'm sure your friend has many positive attributes. But his arrogance is his achilles heel. Irresistible force, meet immovable object. Time to let him go for a while.

If he really is such a great friend, he'll come around. If not, then his achilles heel got the better of him. It sucks, but it's his choice, not yours.

That's life, sometimes your path and your friends' path isn't always compatible. Enjoy them for what they are, and remember them for what they were.

Jester
09-18-2008, 06:17 AM
He mentions the problems between he and my wife and says that if it were HIM, he wouldn't have hesitated.

Response: "But it WASN'T you. It was ME. You and I are friends, we are brothers, but we are NOT the same person. You may not always agree with the way I do things, you may not always approve, but I am going to do things my way, not your way. I have always accepted you as you are, and you, my brother, need to start accepting me as I am."

And that is the way that I think the conversation should go. Calmly, rationally, and logically. If he can't accept that....well.....that is going to be his problem, and he is going to have to live with the consequences.

No, If I take a step back, it's 99% likely to end the friendship.

I would suggest you take the above approach, and if anyone takes "a step back" it will be him.

Just my opinion.

Whatever anyone says here, though, remember....no one here except YOU knows exactly what the friendship has been, nor how important it has been to you. Longtime friends have flaws, but they ARE longtime friends for positive reasons. Only you can make the decisions about how to approach this whole situation. So while some people here may be saying you should just pitch this friend outright, it sounds like you are not ready to do that. So express your opinion to him, make your viewpoint clear and FIRM, but basically put the ball in his court as to what happens next.

Good luck.

MystyGlyttyr
09-18-2008, 01:33 PM
I have this person in my life, and I wouldn't go so far as to classify them as a "friend" but we're entwined with each other anyway and always will be.

The best way we can deal with each other is to spend as little time together as possible. I know that might sound a little off, but it's kept us from killing one another. E-mails and the like about idle chit-chat is one thing, anything else is asking way too much. She's too far one way and I'm too far the other way for us to ever be able to meet in the middle. But you can't just toss off basically decades of history together that easily and we managed to find something that works for us.

On the other hand, sometimes, it's worth the effort to shake off a toxic friend. I had one starting in my younger days and the two of us were inseparable for years. Then I started realizing how many strings came attached with her friendship, and had to sit back and decide whether or not playing her puppet just to have that one voice on the other end of the phone when I needed it was worth it. And ultimately I decided it wasn't and cut her out. It might not always seem like it, but there WILL be other voices to answer the phone and you can't drag yourself down just for the sake of one, no matter how much you care for it.

Just my dime (rounded up for inflation, heh).

Crazeyal
09-18-2008, 05:05 PM
Thanks to all for the advice. It's appreciated. Haven't gotten a call from him yet, and I've decided that I'm not going to force a confrontation. It's entirely possible that HE is brooding about MY insult and won't call for a while. Which is fine by me, actually. Methinks he'll be a bit surprised when he calls me in 2 -3 weeks and I reply "Thank you SOOO much for not contacting me.. It was JUST what I needed! Could you do me a favor and repeat the process about 20 more times?? I should be completly recharged by then!!!"

:lol: